Random Raider Stuff

[jimkelly02]

10 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Agree wholeheartedly with the above, this is the year to get to base camp. We have so many moving parts that its going to take a year to assess the changes we've made, who that we've brought in are medium to long term options and who simply are one and done. We'll know where our weaknesses are and hopefully will be set up to make a small number of high quality acquisitions to make the push for the summit next year.

We can all nit pick every move and of course there's things we probably all would do slightly differently but overall I'd tend to agree that Mayock has done pretty well so far, the only blight being the AB fiasco really and in fairness Mayock went above and beyond in his fairness of treatment and probably accorded Brown too much respect. He handled the situation professionally and with dignity, Mayock seems like a good guy to have at the head of the organisation both from an integrity and talent perspective though its still early  for the draft classes.

 

Just to add one thing to what you said... Not only Did Mayock do all that he made the tough but right choice to protect the team.  He showed wisdom and was willing not make the very hard decision to cut AB and cut our losses (draft picks) but did so Right before we’d be on the hook financially.  It’s hard to cut a player of the talent of AB, but he pulled the trigger.  Imagine if he let that fiasco continue a single day longer and we were on the hook for paying AB tens of millions of dollars..... there would be no Corey Littleton and Collins on the Raiders this year.  He also had the foresight to structure the deal with a delayed bonus.

[raidr4life]

18 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

I think you made the numbers work to prove your point, lol.  
 

Im not a huge a fan of the Heath, Witten, Nassib, or Mariota deals to be honest.  But besides figuratively trading them all Clowney I couldn’t really find a better way to spend that money.  It’s not like we did bad, I’d just have done some things differently:

Why sign Heath for 3.6m when we could have resigned Joseph to a better deal then he got in Cleveland and with cap credits it’d only have costed 1.188M? Saves 2.4M+.

Id also have cut Gabe Jackson and signed Larry Warford to a 2y, 14M deal, saving 2.5-3.0M’ish.

The Mariota deal sounds great in theory but in reality is Carr bombs then we have 2 QBs who aren’t the future.... i don’t think Mariota could lead us to the playoffs.  I’d rather have Andy Dalton for 1y, 3.0M (that’s what he got in Dallas) as insurance If Carr got hurt. Btw, Winston and Newtown weren’t going to come here for what they got from their prospective teams.  That’s not a real option IMO.  Saves 6.125M.

Running cap savings of roughly 11.5M.... Nassib costs 7.75.... Clowney could probably be signed for 17M.... there’s a surplus of 2.125M But the big difference is  we’re don’t have guarantees on the books for Nassib in ‘21.  

Im glad we didn’t match Jones deal.... he got more money, especially guaranteed, than I’d be comfortable giving him.  I’d rather have Prince and Arnette than Jones, when you consider the costs.  Prince for 877.5k cap hit is a better deal than matching Or beating Jones’ deal.  Plus, I think Arnette will become a solid CB2 in the NFL.  Chaisson is very boom or bust... he’s enticing but I’d rather wait to get that type of player somewhere else.  
 

I’m all about being fiscally conservative and getting the team into the playoffs this year and then getting one STUD defender and 1-2 nice pieces for a run in ‘21.  I feel that’s always been the teams long term plan, and we need to stick to it and not be short sited.

Am I happy with what Mayock did? Absolutely!  Could somethings have been done better in my amateur, simpleton opinion? Sure.  But what do I know?

 

I agree totally, I think Joseph wanted a chance to start and earn a bigger contract that just wasn't going to happen here. Definitely would have traded in Gabe for Warford and cap savings. Dalton was my secret want, i think he would do well with our weapons , run game, OL.

[jimkelly02]

11 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

I agree totally, I think Joseph wanted a chance to start and earn a bigger contract that just wasn't going to happen here. Definitely would have traded in Gabe for Warford and cap savings. Dalton was my secret want, i think he would do well with our weapons , run game, OL.

Yeah possibly correct about Joseph.... but even so  Eric Reid could be had for a veteran minimum deal.... 

we could have given him 1.015M salary, 137.5k Signing Bonus.... and he’d have a 877.5k cap hit due to cap credits.  That’s way better than 3.6M for Jeff freggin Heath.

[agarcia34]

From Vics new article he says that Ruggs has joined the park practices. Haven’t seen any video of Ruggs, but good to hear that his injury healed up and is out there working. 

[jimkelly02]

11 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

From Vics new article he says that Ruggs has joined the park practices. Haven’t seen any video of Ruggs, but good to hear that his injury healed up and is out there working. 

Very good news.  On another note when are we signing these draft picks?  We’ve signed zero so far.

It’s not a big deal cuz they have preset contracts but there’s always disputes over language and what not.  Last thing we need is a few guys late to camp.

Edited July 17, 2020 by jimkelly02

[Humble_Beast]

19 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

I think you made the numbers work to prove your point, lol.  
 

Im not a huge a fan of the Heath, Witten, Nassib, or Mariota deals to be honest.  But besides figuratively trading them all Clowney I couldn’t really find a better way to spend that money.  It’s not like we did bad, I’d just have done some things differently:

Why sign Heath for 3.6m when we could have resigned Joseph to a better deal then he got in Cleveland and with cap credits it’d only have costed 1.188M? Saves 2.4M+.

Id also have cut Gabe Jackson and signed Larry Warford to a 2y, 14M deal, saving 2.5-3.0M’ish.

The Mariota deal sounds great in theory but in reality is Carr bombs then we have 2 QBs who aren’t the future.... i don’t think Mariota could lead us to the playoffs.  I’d rather have Andy Dalton for 1y, 3.0M (that’s what he got in Dallas) as insurance If Carr got hurt. Btw, Winston and Newtown weren’t going to come here for what they got from their prospective teams.  That’s not a real option IMO.  Saves 6.125M.

Running cap savings of roughly 11.5M.... Nassib costs 7.75.... Clowney could probably be signed for 17M.... there’s a surplus of 2.125M But the big difference is  we’re don’t have guarantees on the books for Nassib in ‘21.  

Im glad we didn’t match Jones deal.... he got more money, especially guaranteed, than I’d be comfortable giving him.  I’d rather have Prince and Arnette than Jones, when you consider the costs.  Prince for 877.5k cap hit is a better deal than matching Or beating Jones’ deal.  Plus, I think Arnette will become a solid CB2 in the NFL.  Chaisson is very boom or bust... he’s enticing but I’d rather wait to get that type of player somewhere else.  
 

I’m all about being fiscally conservative and getting the team into the playoffs this year and then getting one STUD defender and 1-2 nice pieces for a run in ‘21.  I feel that’s always been the teams long term plan, and we need to stick to it and not be short sited.

Am I happy with what Mayock did? Absolutely!  Could somethings have been done better in my amateur, simpleton opinion? Sure.  But what do I know?

 

MM- Gruden wanted someone who could run around like Gannon back in the day: I think MM is the highest paid back up QB, Gruden wanted to light a fire under DC. Gruden is football smart, and knows QB performance is key to winning. 

Heath - clear role as 3rd safety. He’s a decent starter who will see time here. Probably was better value but Heath going provide depth to a unit who’s been lacking it. I think Joseph wanted a new start 

Nassib- should be a fine pick up, and smart man to have in the locker room. Maybe could have landed Clowney instead of Nassib

Witten- came out of no where. He’s a hall of famer, maybe Gruden wanted Waller and Moreau to learn from him. Plus he is good in the end zone. I think Waller can take another level and be the “best TE in the league” talks. 

I liked our overall free agent haul and draft. Would have been more nice to added Bryon Jones+Clowney+Chaisson To our other free agents and draft class, but that would have been an A+offseason. 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Humble_Beast

[jimkelly02]

34 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

MM- Gruden wanted someone who could run around like Gannon back in the day: I think MM is the highest paid back up QB, Gruden wanted to light a fire under DC. Gruden is football smart, and knows QB performance is key to winning. 

Heath - clear role as 3rd safety. He’s a decent starter who will see time here. Probably was better value but Heath going provide depth to a unit who’s been lacking it. I think Joseph wanted a new start 

Nassib- should be a fine pick up, and smart man to have in the locker room. Maybe could have landed Clowney instead of Nassib

Witten- came out of no where. He’s a hall of famer, maybe Gruden wanted Waller and Moreau to learn from him. Plus he is good in the end zone. I think Waller can take another level and be the “best TE in the league” talks. 

I liked our overall free agent haul and draft. Would have been more nice to added Bryon Jones+Clowney+Chaisson To our other free agents and draft class, but that would have been an A+offseason. 

 

I omitted criticism of the Witten deal because he should indeed be a good mentor to Waller and Moreau... and they need it.  But 4.75M is A steep price for a mentor.  He probably didn’t have a ton of teams tossing him 2.5-3M offers.... I just think we overpaid.  
 

Heath isn’t garbage but given we were able to get Randal for 2.1M and the amount of S’s still out there looking for jobs who probably would take a veteran minimum deal, paying Heath 3.6M is very wasteful.  We rushed to sign him and overpaid.  “3rd safeties”.... he’s really the 4th safety because we have Harris... shouldn’t get 3.6M.  It’d have been more wise to wait to fill a non-starter role with a value signing later in Free Agency.  Sure Heath will contribute but he’s not going to be instrumental in our team’s success.

Nassib will be a good player for us.... my point was for what we paid him and what we squandered away overpaying guys like Witten, Heath, etc we could have gotten a DE a tier or two above Nassib, ie Clowney.  

Given that Winston AND Newtown could only garner 1.1M why did we pay Mariota 9.125M?  There was ALWAYS going to be a surplus of starting level QBs this year.  It was painfully obvious.  If we lost out on Mariota there were still plenty of other options.  We could have negotiated a little better and gotten him for 6-7M not 9M+.   

Ive said all this before and people critique my self admitted cheapness but those same people are sitting there hoping we can somehow rustle up enough money to sign Clowney now.

I like everyone we signed, my point is: Did we really get the best deals we could have.  I don’t believe we did.  We should have offered less money to Heath, Witten, Nassib, etc and if they walked “oh well”.... we’ll sign someone else... for way less.

You gotta go into free agency with money from the piggybank that you’ve saved, not your credit card.

[jimkelly02]

Btw... if Carr flops does anyone really, truly believe Mariota will be a franchise QB for us?  I’m sorry I don’t see him playing so well in that scenario that we’re not all demanding we draft a QB.  He’ll probably win us just enough games to push us down the draft board and not have enough draft capital to trade up for a top prospect.  
 

Honestly, if Carr can’t be a franchise QB this year I’d rather we just lose out and get a high enough pick to draft a top QB, save money, and make a push in ‘22 (only a year player than the plan has always been).  
 

If it was really just “bring in competition to push Carr” getting a guy like Andy Dalton for 3.0M would have sufficed just fine.

Take the other 6M+ and put that towards a player that helps us win, by actually playing.

 

The best case scenario with Mariota is he gets a little playing time and does well enough for us to trade him to a team who is in the playoff hunt but has a hurt starting QB.  
 

If Carr isn’t our QB we’ll just have 2 QBs who aren’t the future.

Edited July 18, 2020 by jimkelly02

[Humble_Beast]

10 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I omitted criticism of the Witten deal because he should indeed be a good mentor to Waller and Moreau... and they need it.  But 4.75M is A steep price for a mentor.  He probably didn’t have a ton of teams tossing him 2.5-3M offers.... I just think we overpaid.  
 

Heath isn’t garbage but given we were able to get Randal for 2.1M and the amount of S’s still out there looking for jobs who probably would take a veteran minimum deal, paying Heath 3.6M is very wasteful.  We rushed to sign him and overpaid.  “3rd safeties”.... he’s really the 4th safety because we have Harris... shouldn’t get 3.6M.  It’d have been more wise to wait to fill a non-starter role with a value signing later in Free Agency.  Sure Heath will contribute but he’s not going to be instrumental in our team’s success.

Nassib will be a good player for us.... my point was for what we paid him and what we squandered away overpaying guys like Witten, Heath, etc we could have gotten a DE a tier or two above Nassib, ie Clowney.  

Given that Winston AND Newtown could only garner 1.1M why did we pay Mariota 9.125M?  There was ALWAYS going to be a surplus of starting level QBs this year.  It was painfully obvious.  If we lost out on Mariota there were still plenty of other options.  We could have negotiated a little better and gotten him for 6-7M not 9M+.   

Ive said all this before and people critique my self admitted cheapness but those same people are sitting there hoping we can somehow rustle up enough money to sign Clowney now.

I like everyone we signed, my point is: Did we really get the best deals we could have.  I don’t believe we did.  We should have offered less money to Heath, Witten, Nassib, etc and if they walked “oh well”.... we’ll sign someone else... for way less.

You gotta go into free agency with money from the piggybank that you’ve saved, not your credit card.

Which guys you think we be cleared out next offseason to sign a few big fish free agents in 2021? 
 

MM, Richard, T Williams, J Witten, Richie(retirement) , Gabe, Joyner, Heath

that would clear a lot of space. 

[jimkelly02]

15 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

Which guys you think we be cleared out next offseason to sign a few big fish free agents in 2021? 
 

MM, Richard, T Williams, J Witten, Richie(retirement) , Gabe, Joyner, Heath

that would clear a lot of space. 

You nailed it.  Williams could stay if he plays like a low level WR1, high level WR2 this year.  Only time will tell.  Even if he does he’ll still have a promising young and cheap Bryan Edwards ready to take his place and potential cheaper or better (2 very different scenarios) Free Agents who could be signed, causing his release.  Allen Robinson, JuJu Smith-Schuster, Keenan Allen, Kenny Golliday would all be upgrades who even if they command 14-17M, that isnt a huge amount more than Williams’ 11M.  I think the ‘21 free agent class might see a market that isn’t willing as fruitful as years past, if Covid keeps the cap the same or less.  If Edwards shows promise then maybe we sign a lesser but still starting level WR for less money, such as Corey Davis, Curtis Samuel, TY Hilton (a bit older but could produce for a few years and serve as a bridge to Edwards), or we got full speed mode with Will Fuller or Josh Ross.

Im hoping, which is very different than knowing, that Incognito will play in ‘21.

 

Witten is a FA in ‘21 and definitely retires.  I can’t see Joyner even if he plays well, like I think he will, staying for ‘21 due to Robertson.  Bowden will likely replace Richard, although we shouldn’t undervalue him.... he might just play so well we can’t cut him. Gabe’s almost definitely gone due to drafting Simpson.  Unless Incognito retires AND Gabe stays healthy plays up to his best, then he’s gone. Even then he could be gone because of his cap number and no dead cap.

Heath has very little chance of staying... although his cap number does drop from 3.6 to 3.15.  Still that’s likely too much for what he does and unless he takes a pay cut he’s gone.

[agarcia34]

https://www.ea.com/games/madden-nfl/madden-nfl-21/player-ratings?utm_campaign=mad21_hd_ww_ic_soco_twt_m21ratingshubtw&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cid=64039&ts=1595034930899

 

if u want to see the Raiders madden 21 ratings 

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 hour ago, agarcia34 said:

https://www.ea.com/games/madden-nfl/madden-nfl-21/player-ratings?utm_campaign=mad21_hd_ww_ic_soco_twt_m21ratingshubtw&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cid=64039&ts=1595034930899

 

if u want to see the Raiders madden 21 ratings 

I get it, we get no love until we can prove otherwise....  That is what happens when your team is a dumpster fire for 20 years.  Hopefully by the end of the year we have quite a few more 90's on here. 

Littleton at 78 is puzzling considering washed up Witton is a 77.  Maxx, Carr, Mullin and Kwik are quite low too.  

Edited July 18, 2020 by Frankie2Gunz

[Darbsk]

12 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

Btw... if Carr flops does anyone really, truly believe Mariota will be a franchise QB for us?  I’m sorry I don’t see him playing so well in that scenario that we’re not all demanding we draft a QB.  He’ll probably win us just enough games to push us down the draft board and not have enough draft capital to trade up for a top prospect.  
 

Honestly, if Carr can’t be a franchise QB this year I’d rather we just lose out and get a high enough pick to draft a top QB, save money, and make a push in ‘22 (only a year player than the plan has always been).  
 

If it was really just “bring in competition to push Carr” getting a guy like Andy Dalton for 3.0M would have sufficed just fine.

Take the other 6M+ and put that towards a player that helps us win, by actually playing.

 

The best case scenario with Mariota is he gets a little playing time and does well enough for us to trade him to a team who is in the playoff hunt but has a hurt starting QB.  
 

If Carr isn’t our QB we’ll just have 2 QBs who aren’t the future.

Good points, regarding Mariota and Dalton. Dalton is I believe a better QB, is signed as a backup so that shouldn't have been an issue and is earning 1/3 that of Mariota. Don't get me wrong, I like Mariota and in our system he could potentially be an average starter even but Dalton would have been much, much better value.

Heath and Witten you are correct are obvious overpays but I somewhat understand with Witten as Moreau looks to be out for a little while and may be slow easing back in. Totally agree that backup safety is one of the least valued positions in all if football so we should have gotten much better value there and some pretty decent players at safety go for peanuts a little later in FA. 

Nassib I'm quite excited about after digging into a little bit but I wouldn't argue that it is another overpay, it seems like with Heath and Nassib we really, really wanted and targeted those specific guys and of course, the more you want something the more you're likely to overpay. It seems a little strange given what I perceive to be the excellent value of the Littleton and Kwit signings. 

Overall looking just at the players on paper it looks really good but then factoring in the contracts does create a few question marks.

[NYRaider]

Offense

QB - Carr (79) | Mariota (68) 

RB - Jacobs (88) | Richard (74) | Bowden (69) 

WR - Williams (82) | Jones (75) | Renfrow (74) 

WR - Ruggs (76) | Agholor (77) | Edwards (70) 

TE - Waller (85) | Witten (77) | Moreau (69) 

LT - Miller (73) 

LG - Incognito (90) 

C - Hudson (93)

RG - Jackson (79)

RT - Brown (87) 

Defense

DE - Crosby (77) | Ferrell (73) 

DT - Hurst (82) 

DT - Hankins (76) | Collins (75) 

DE - Nassib (77) 

OLB - Lee (72) 

MLB - Littleton (78) 

OLB - Kwit (76) 

CB - Amukamara (78) | Arnette (70) 

CB - Mullen (75) 

SLCB - Joyner (82) | Robertson (68) 

SS - Abram (73) 

FS - Randall (82) 

Edited July 18, 2020 by NYRaider

[Frankie2Gunz]

14 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

Btw... if Carr flops does anyone really, truly believe Mariota will be a franchise QB for us?  I’m sorry I don’t see him playing so well in that scenario that we’re not all demanding we draft a QB.  He’ll probably win us just enough games to push us down the draft board and not have enough draft capital to trade up for a top prospect.  
 

Honestly, if Carr can’t be a franchise QB this year I’d rather we just lose out and get a high enough pick to draft a top QB, save money, and make a push in ‘22 (only a year player than the plan has always been).  
 

If it was really just “bring in competition to push Carr” getting a guy like Andy Dalton for 3.0M would have sufficed just fine.

Take the other 6M+ and put that towards a player that helps us win, by actually playing.

 

The best case scenario with Mariota is he gets a little playing time and does well enough for us to trade him to a team who is in the playoff hunt but has a hurt starting QB.  
 

If Carr isn’t our QB we’ll just have 2 QBs who aren’t the future.

I don't think that is the reason we signed MM.  In past seasons when Carr has gotten injured our backups have gone out there, embarrassed themselves and we got stomped.  EJ was a complete hack and in 16' when Carr went down right before the playoffs Cook couldn't get out of his own way as we now know he is also a bum and out of football.  As with most teams if their starting Qb goes down their season is over but with MM we still have a chance.

With MM on the roster and having so much starting experience if Carr goes down with an injury we still have a chance to win games.  It also gives Gruden a project.  MM is a 26 year old, top 3 pick, that he can attempt to build back up.  From the little game film I have watched on MM his arm looks below average.  I am not sure if that was bc of an injury but his deep ball was terrible and he had no zip on the ball.