vegas492 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Jimmy Graham had 10 touchdowns in Seattle. That's one more touchdown than red zone targets he's had with us this year. Wait for this little lesson in patience: Jimmy Graham had 48 receptions, 605 yards and 2 touchdowns in his first year in Seattle. Jimmy Graham has 52 receptions, 615 yards and 2 touchdowns in his first year here. Jimmy Graham had 65 receptions for 923 yards and 6 touchdowns in his second year in Seattle. Then Jimmy Graham had 10 touchdown receptions in his last year in Seattle. It's almost like maybe Jimmy benefits from having a full season with a QB. It's almost like patience pays off with him. I think Graham only played in like 10 or 11 games his first year in Seattle. Knee injury happened. I know that "kind of" messes with that argument for second year progression, but it is worth mentioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 Just now, vegas492 said: I think Graham only played in like 10 or 11 games his first year in Seattle. Knee injury happened. I know that "kind of" messes with that argument for second year progression, but it is worth mentioning. 11 games. Injuries have happened to him this year, too. His numbers were really up/down in his first year in Seattle, too. Look at the gamelogs. http://www.nfl.com/player/jimmygraham/497236/gamelogs?season=2015 http://www.nfl.com/player/jimmygraham/497236/gamelogs?season=2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Just now, Outpost31 said: 11 games. Injuries have happened to him this year, too. His numbers were really up/down in his first year in Seattle, too. Look at the gamelogs. http://www.nfl.com/player/jimmygraham/497236/gamelogs?season=2015 http://www.nfl.com/player/jimmygraham/497236/gamelogs?season=2018 Yes. Up and down, in a new system, as you pointed out. But...his first year production there was quite good. Knee injury versus a thumb. Yah, injuries happened, but it is tough to play with a torn knee. That injury, I think, took a lot of his special ability away from him. I think that makes his second year in Seattle look that much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 You are doing mental gymnastics defending this signing. Call a spade a spade; he hasn't looked good most of time, he is getting older, he tends to get hurt, he isn't separating, he is expensive, he is a bad blocker. If he played for another team you would say it. You are just reflexively defending him and not being objective. GB passes ball as much or more than almost any other team and has a many year veteran QB. Graham is the no. 1 TE and on the field a lot. He will have some numbers, his numbers should be bigger. Numbers don't tell whole story. They never do. You can say he didn't get that many targets. Rogers is running around all over the place buying time dropping back on like 70% of plays. Graham should be feasting, breaking off routes working back to QB, working up field, sitting in the zone, etc. Throwing up his hand in open space. Not his first rodeo with a scrambling QB. Where was he? Stat that matters most is W and Ls. He hasn't made the difference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fl0nkerton Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Gotta love fans of other teams weighing in on another teams FA signings. Livin' rent free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 minute ago, dll2000 said: You are doing mental gymnastics defending this signing. Call a spade a spade; he hasn't looked good most of time, he is getting older, he tends to get hurt, he isn't separating, he is expensive, he is a bad blocker. If he played for another team you would say it. You are just reflexively defending him and not being objective. GB passes ball as much or more than almost any other team and has a many year veteran QB. Graham is the no. 1 TE and on the field a lot. He will have some numbers, his numbers should be bigger. Numbers don't tell whole story. They never do. You can say he didn't get that many targets. Rogers is running around all over the place buying time dropping back on like 70% of plays. Graham should be feasting, breaking off routes working back to QB, working up field, sitting in the zone, etc. Throwing up his hand in open space. Not his first rodeo with a scrambling QB. Where was he? Stat that matters most is W and Ls. He hasn't made the difference there. Your mental gymnastics led you to a horrible WR signing and you advocated for a red shirt year because of injury..for Robinson. As in paying him more than Graham is getting, almost double. 11M Robinson. 6M Graham. And I have news for you...Robinson's number would be eerily similar in his first year here. You advocate patience with Robinson, but not Graham. Find me a tight end that gets Graham''s number for $5M. Look, I was against that contract from the get-go. But it is what it is. Free agency is littered, every year, with guys who don't live up to their deals. The idea behind Graham is simple. Patience. Chemistry doesn't happen overnight, especially with limited practice and a QB who didn't practice for most of the year due to a bad knee. You cut him now, you are making things worse. Spending more money and hoping to get the same production. The smarter course of action is to wait one more year and actually develop someone behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 It's not rocket science. Watch a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 minute ago, vegas492 said: Your mental gymnastics led you to a horrible WR signing and you advocated for a red shirt year because of injury..for Robinson. As in paying him more than Graham is getting, almost double. 11M Robinson. 6M Graham. And I have news for you...Robinson's number would be eerily similar in his first year here. You advocate patience with Robinson, but not Graham. Find me a tight end that gets Graham''s number for $5M. Look, I was against that contract from the get-go. But it is what it is. Free agency is littered, every year, with guys who don't live up to their deals. The idea behind Graham is simple. Patience. Chemistry doesn't happen overnight, especially with limited practice and a QB who didn't practice for most of the year due to a bad knee. You cut him now, you are making things worse. Spending more money and hoping to get the same production. The smarter course of action is to wait one more year and actually develop someone behind him. I don't think Robinson is a horrible signing. I didn't say redshirt. I said he would be better in his second year following injury like most human beings not named Adrian Peterson. I love the Robinson signing. He is good, young, a team leader and has an even higher upside. He is a potential very good no. 1 WR for a good no. 2 WR price. If he wasn't coming off an injury he would have cost much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaider Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 I admit that I don't have the all 22, but I did attend two games in person and watched where #80 was lined up for most of the game. Graham was open a lot. He just didn't get the ball thrown to him for whatever reason. I think he has value. Is it $10 million a year? No, but his contract is what it is and the value is to keep him on. Per Zach Kruse, last year he led the NFL in red-zone touchdown receptions. I don't think in one year his skills diminished so much that he's no longer as efficient. It has to do more with how he's used. In 2017 he had 26 red-zone targets. In 2018 he's been targeted 9 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I don't think Robinson is a horrible signing. I didn't say redshirt. I said he would be better in his second year following injury like most human beings not named Adrian Peterson. I love the Robinson signing. He is good, young, a team leader and has an even higher upside. He is a potential very good no. 1 WR for a good no. 2 WR price. If he wasn't coming off an injury he would have cost much more. Allen Robinson has the 12th highest avg salary at WR. What are you smoking at WR2 price? Jimmy isn't producing up to his contract, because you pay more in FA. Personally I think he will play 1 more year and be cut. I also expect him to do better next year with a clearer focus on offense and a rapport built with Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I don't think Robinson is a horrible signing. I didn't say redshirt. I said he would be better in his second year following injury like most human beings not named Adrian Peterson. I love the Robinson signing. He is good, young, a team leader and has an even higher upside. He is a potential very good no. 1 WR for a good no. 2 WR price. If he wasn't coming off an injury he would have cost much more. That is one of the most LOLable things I've seen on here. He's the 13'th most expensive WR in the league...today. He would get more???? 55 catches, 754 yards. 4 TDs. 58.5% catch percentage. Yah, great signing for $11M this year. MVS...35 catches, 538 yards. 2 TDs. 535k this year. Yah, those 220 yards are worth 10.5M. If Robinson is worth that, then Davante Adams is worth double. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 21 minutes ago, JBURGE said: Allen Robinson has the 12th highest avg salary at WR. What are you smoking at WR2 price? Jimmy isn't producing up to his contract, because you pay more in FA. Personally I think he will play 1 more year and be cut. I also expect him to do better next year with a clearer focus on offense and a rapport built with Rodgers. We'll see what top FA WRs get going forward. He just went through FA. 12th is not high when it just happened. Robinson will drop down that list in a hurry in next couple of years. In terms of total contract he is way down that list. But for that injury he would have been the no. 1 FA WR in that class. Deal is very reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 minute ago, dll2000 said: 32 minutes ago, JBURGE said: Allen Robinson has the 12th highest avg salary at WR. What are you smoking at WR2 price? Jimmy isn't producing up to his contract, because you pay more in FA. Personally I think he will play 1 more year and be cut. I also expect him to do better next year with a clearer focus on offense and a rapport built with Rodgers. We'll see what top FA WRs get going forward. He just went through FA. 12th is not high when it just happened. Robinson will drop down that list in a hurry in next couple of years. In terms of total contract he is way down that list. But for that injury he would have been the no. 1 FA WR in that class. Deal is very reasonable. It is reasonable, for a mid range WR1, which is what he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 30 minutes ago, vegas492 said: That is one of the most LOLable things I've seen on here. He's the 13'th most expensive WR in the league...today. He would get more???? 55 catches, 754 yards. 4 TDs. 58.5% catch percentage. Yah, great signing for $11M this year. MVS...35 catches, 538 yards. 2 TDs. 535k this year. Yah, those 220 yards are worth 10.5M. If Robinson is worth that, then Davante Adams is worth double. You are quoting stats at me like they tell the whole story. You judge all players by their stats and ignore their situation? Robinson is a young player coming off a knee injury that had him miss most of offseason coming into a new team with a new coach in a new offense. Bears are playing with essentially a rookie QB with 1 season of college with a coach that spreads ball around. Graham is an 8 year vet playing with a HOF QB playing in same offense for more than a decade on a team that passes 70% of time. If Adams was a FA in 2018 he probably would have had a similar contract to Robinson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, JBURGE said: It is reasonable, for a mid range WR1, which is what he is It is what he is. But he has been an upper level WR1 in his still young career and has upside to do so again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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