MacReady Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 Just now, vegas492 said: I can't argue that his contract is worth it. It isn't. I can't argue that he is an elite athlete. He isn't. And that's the thing a lot of people can't get through their thick, cut-happy skulls. Nobody is arguing that Graham was worth the contract. The arguments here are as follows: Jimmy Graham is better than people suggest. He was literally a top 10 TE in receptions and yards. Jimmy Graham, given his contract, what else is available, should still be a Packer next season. It's literally that simple. Nobody is saying he's this super duper elite TE. He's still had a good season compared to other tight ends in the league in spite of being paid more than just having a good season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: And that's the thing a lot of people can't get through their thick, cut-happy skulls. Nobody is arguing that Graham was worth the contract. The arguments here are as follows: Jimmy Graham is better than people suggest. He was literally a top 10 TE in receptions and yards. Jimmy Graham, given his contract, what else is available, should still be a Packer next season. It's literally that simple. Nobody is saying he's this super duper elite TE. He's still had a good season compared to other tight ends in the league in spite of being paid more than just having a good season. I can see the other side, though, too. That is an easy $5M to grab...in some people's minds. Now...if GB were up against the cap? Then I"d listen more to that one. But they aren't. So that money doesn't mean anything to me. I think we all know that you aren't replacing Graham's production for $5M. So...you are caught between the rock and the hard place. Only this place isn't all that hard. You just shrug your shoulders, give him another year and not compound the mistake. Along the way, you develop your next tight end. Be it Tonyan or draft pick....or both. Let me ask you this....do you see Graham getting that final year of his deal? I don't, because that is when you can release and not make the mistake worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Outpost31 said: And that's the thing a lot of people can't get through their thick, cut-happy skulls. Nobody is arguing that Graham was worth the contract. The arguments here are as follows: Jimmy Graham is better than people suggest. He was literally a top 10 TE in receptions and yards. Jimmy Graham, given his contract, what else is available, should still be a Packer next season. It's literally that simple. Nobody is saying he's this super duper elite TE. He's still had a good season compared to other tight ends in the league in spite of being paid more than just having a good season. I can buy that logic. You could have fooled me, however; that convo was solely about whether to keep him going forward or not. I lose track of who said what and when. Title of thread isn't keep him or cut him. Its a discussion of signing and player, yeah? So in hindsight are you saying bad signing? It seems you are saying that when you say he wasn't worth the contract. Or is the hedge or position that it was good/decent signing because you have to overpay free agents and you got top 10 production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 Just now, dll2000 said: So in hindsight are you saying bad signing? It seems you are saying that when you say he wasn't worth the contract. Or is the hedge or position that it was good/decent signing because you have to overpay free agents and you got top 10 production? No. He wasn't a bad signing. You HAVE to overpay in free agency in order to get players. Especially as early as we signed Graham. The signing was not a bad signing. He's not worth the contract. Signing not bad signing, not worth contract. Not bad signing, not worth contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 3 hours ago, vegas492 said: I can see the other side, though, too. That is an easy $5M to grab...in some people's minds. Now...if GB were up against the cap? Then I"d listen more to that one. But they aren't. So that money doesn't mean anything to me. I think we all know that you aren't replacing Graham's production for $5M. So...you are caught between the rock and the hard place. Only this place isn't all that hard. You just shrug your shoulders, give him another year and not compound the mistake. Along the way, you develop your next tight end. Be it Tonyan or draft pick....or both. Right; I said above that it's opportunity cost - is Graham's contract going to keep GB from going out and getting other quality FAs? No. And barring some shocking release, I doubt there's going to any TEs better than he is out there anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 I bet a guy like McDaniels would find plenty of ways to get Graham the ball, ala Gronk-style! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fl0nkerton Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 What if .... Now bear with me. But What if the new coaching staff utilizes Graham's strengths instead of making him do something that's not part of his game? That would be icing on the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 On 12/31/2018 at 10:32 AM, vegas492 said: Going to put this into some perspective..... Keep in mind that from day one I thought that we overpaid for Graham. But...releasing him now only compounds that mistake. Jimmy Graham contract, 3 years, $30M. 11M guaranteed. His salary cap number for 2018 was 5.9M. If you release him this year, that will be one year at $13.2M. If you play him through next year, that is two years at $18.5M. Look, I'm not arguing that Graham is worth the contract, I am saying that by releasing him, you make the mistake that much larger. The best course of action is to play him for one more year and then make the decision. I agree . The mistake was already made and unfortunately it was the sort of mistake that was a 2 year one. He could have been a Richard Rodgers caliber of TE this year and he wouldn’t be going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadyToThump Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 If Jimmy Graham had top 10 stats with that chitty of a year then imagine what he could do in a good year. He seemed to leave a lot on the field, had some bad drops(the got worse after the thumb injury) and he also was an abysmal blocker for the most part. Here's to hoping he gets his head out of his *** and the new coach gets him involved more surrounding his strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, ReadyToThump said: If Jimmy Graham had top 10 stats with that chitty of a year then imagine what he could do in a good year. He seemed to leave a lot on the field, had some bad drops(the got worse after the thumb injury) and he also was an abysmal blocker for the most part. Here's to hoping he gets his head out of his *** and the new coach gets him involved more surrounding his strengths. Plausible if he were 26. Bounce backs at 32 are few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, cannondale said: Plausible if he were 26. Bounce backs at 32 are few and far between. His chances of bouncing back are not very good. Gute dumped Nelson, so he probably should seriously consider dumping Graham now as well. Tom Silverstein has been talking like it's a forgone conclusion that Graham will be dumped. I guess there is a 5 million dollar signing bonus in March .. he sees no way the Packers pay that. I think Silverstein left open the possibility of a restructure, but saw no way he'd be back under his current deal. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, ReadyToThump said: If Jimmy Graham had top 10 stats with that chitty of a year then imagine what he could do in a good year. He seemed to leave a lot on the field, had some bad drops(the got worse after the thumb injury) and he also was an abysmal blocker for the most part. Here's to hoping he gets his head out of his *** and the new coach gets him involved more surrounding his strengths. 1 hour ago, cannondale said: Plausible if he were 26. Bounce backs at 32 are few and far between. He doesn't really need a "bounce back", though. What he needs are a couple TD's and another 10 catches or so next year to have a great year at TE. To me, that seems very possible given another year in the system and another year with Rodgers. And...as pointed out...if you want more production...throw him the ball more. There's plenty of film out there that shows him open and not getting the ball. I was really, really disappointed in his red zone production/effort. Those 1:1 balls should have been easy for him. Rodgers tried the jump ball, didn't work. Tried the box out, lower balls, and they didn't work. It was maddening. It would also be maddening to have paid him about 13M for this one season if he is cut now. If Gute can restructure? Man, that would be great and I hadn't thought of that and how it could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Maybe if they got him a helmet that fits.... he could see the ball before it arrives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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