Please Stop the Jimmy Graham Disgruntlement Thread

[KingOfTheNorth]

3 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

If Adams was a FA in 2018 he probably would have had a similar contract to Robinson.

Maybe, but one has been ascending every year, while the other has steadily declined. Robinson hasn't had a good season since 2015.

[SSG]

46 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Your mental gymnastics led you to a horrible WR signing and you advocated for a red shirt year because of injury..for Robinson.  As in paying him more than Graham is getting, almost double.  11M Robinson.  6M Graham.

And I have news for you...Robinson's number would be eerily similar in his first year here.  You advocate patience with Robinson, but not Graham.

Find me a tight end that gets Graham''s number for $5M.

Look, I was against that contract from the get-go.  But it is what it is.  Free agency is littered, every year, with guys who don't live up to their deals.  The idea behind Graham is simple.  Patience.

Chemistry doesn't happen overnight, especially with limited practice and a QB who didn't practice for most of the year due to a bad knee.  

You cut him now, you are making things worse.  Spending more money and hoping to get the same production.  The smarter course of action is to wait one more year and actually develop someone behind him.

Comparing one bad signing to another bad signing is a bad look.  We are paying Jimmy Graham like he's one of the 5 or 6 best football players in the NFL and he's not delivering.  He's had 3 or fewer catches in 9 games this year.  People can blame that all on Rodgers if they want but that's a major disservice as Graham hasn't looked much more than pedestrian for the vast majority of the year.  On top of mediocre production as a receiver he's as bad of a blocker as you'll ever find wearing a NFL jersey at his position.  

Blaming chemistry is an escape goat IMO.  Jimmy Graham was a check down TE last year for Seattle who was useless when not in the redzone.  This is the second year in a row he's looked like a giant sloth at the position.  His game is dependent on athleticism that he pretty clearly no longer has.  

I'd love to cut him because I don't think we'd have any issues replacing him (wouldn't be hard to find a much better blocker who's a lateral move at receiver) but unfortunately the contract is horrid so it doesn't benefit us all that much.  

[dll2000]

4 minutes ago, KingOfTheNorth said:

Maybe, but one has been ascending every year, while the other has steadily declined. Robinson hasn't had a good season since 2015.

Look who he has played with and he got hurt.

If he were on Packers and you watched him every practice and game rep you would know that he has big talent and upside.  Because you are afar you don't see it as well.

Best scouts are the teams fans.  The ones who can be somewhat objective anyway.

Why I visit other forums.  

 

 

[dll2000]

GTG boys.  Work calls.  Nice chatting.

[vegas492]

4 minutes ago, SSG said:

Comparing one bad signing to another bad signing is a bad look.  We are paying Jimmy Graham like he's one of the 5 or 6 best football players in the NFL and he's not delivering.  He's had 3 or fewer catches in 9 games this year.  People can blame that all on Rodgers if they want but that's a major disservice as Graham hasn't looked much more than pedestrian for the vast majority of the year.  On top of mediocre production as a receiver he's as bad of a blocker as you'll ever find wearing a NFL jersey at his position.  

Blaming chemistry is an escape goat IMO.  Jimmy Graham was a check down TE last year for Seattle who was useless when not in the redzone.  This is the second year in a row he's looked like a giant sloth at the position.  His game is dependent on athleticism that he pretty clearly no longer has.  

I'd love to cut him because I don't think we'd have any issues replacing him (wouldn't be hard to find a much better blocker who's a lateral move at receiver) but unfortunately the contract is horrid so it doesn't benefit us all that much.  

Really?  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/

You gotta do a lot of scrolling to get to Jimmy Graham.

[KingOfTheNorth]

2 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Look who he has played with and he got hurt.

If you were on Packers and you watched him every practice and game rep you would know that he has big talent and upside.  Because you are afar you don't see it as well.

Best scouts are the teams fans.  The ones who can be somewhat objective anyway.

Why I visit other forums.  

 

 

He played with that same QB in 2015. His 2016 season and 2018 season are very similar.

[SSG]

38 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Really?  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/

You gotta do a lot of scrolling to get to Jimmy Graham.

He signed a 3 year 30 million dollar contact which on a per season basis is the highest in NFL history for his position.  Yes he has a modest cap number this year but that ignores the fact that most of next year's contract is guaranteed.  If we cut him he'd be costing us substantially more than that linked cap number.  Regardless of how pedestrian he played, we're paying him 12+ million dollars next season.  It's a horrid contract no matter how you flip it.  He's damn near exactly the player we seen last year in Seattle where he was useless when not in the redzone.  He's a check down receiver who's detrimental to the run game.  No surprise the instant and substantial improvement Seattle made in their offense by ridding themselves of Graham.  

[Cakeshoppe]

3 minutes ago, SSG said:

He signed a 3 year 30 million dollar contact which on a per season basis is the highest in NFL history.  Yes he has a modest cap number this year but that ignores the fact that most of next year's contract is guaranteed.  If we cut him he'd be costing us substantially more than that linked cap number.  Regardless of how pedestrian he played, we're paying him 12+ million dollars.  It's a horrid contract no matter how you flip it.  He's damn near exactly the player we seen last year in Seattle where he was useless when not in the redzone.  He's a check down receiver who's detrimental to the run game.  No surprise the instant and substantial improvement Seattle made in their offense by ridding themselves of Graham.  

This is the opposite of what Jimmy Graham is this year. He has 3 receptions, 2TDs on 8 targets in the red zone. It's his area of lowest productivity.

[vegas492]

51 minutes ago, SSG said:

Comparing one bad signing to another bad signing is a bad look.  We are paying Jimmy Graham like he's one of the 5 or 6 best football players in the NFL and he's not delivering.  He's had 3 or fewer catches in 9 games this year.  People can blame that all on Rodgers if they want but that's a major disservice as Graham hasn't looked much more than pedestrian for the vast majority of the year.  On top of mediocre production as a receiver he's as bad of a blocker as you'll ever find wearing a NFL jersey at his position.  

Blaming chemistry is an escape goat IMO.  Jimmy Graham was a check down TE last year for Seattle who was useless when not in the redzone.  This is the second year in a row he's looked like a giant sloth at the position.  His game is dependent on athleticism that he pretty clearly no longer has.  

I'd love to cut him because I don't think we'd have any issues replacing him (wouldn't be hard to find a much better blocker who's a lateral move at receiver) but unfortunately the contract is horrid so it doesn't benefit us all that much.  

 

45 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Really?  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/

You gotta do a lot of scrolling to get to Jimmy Graham.

 

11 minutes ago, SSG said:

He signed a 3 year 30 million dollar contact which on a per season basis is the highest in NFL history for his position.  Yes he has a modest cap number this year but that ignores the fact that most of next year's contract is guaranteed.  If we cut him he'd be costing us substantially more than that linked cap number.  Regardless of how pedestrian he played, we're paying him 12+ million dollars next season.  It's a horrid contract no matter how you flip it.  He's damn near exactly the player we seen last year in Seattle where he was useless when not in the redzone.  He's a check down receiver who's detrimental to the run game.  No surprise the instant and substantial improvement Seattle made in their offense by ridding themselves of Graham.  

Now you make sense.  Highest paid at his position, not one of the 5 or 6 best football players in the NFL.  Huge difference there.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/tight-end/

Please note, I'm not defending the contract.  It is too high.  I've said that since he was signed.  But it is the price of doing business in free agency.

Here's the list of tight ends making over 7.5M/season.  Which ones are worth it?

Jimmy Graham, 10M.

Travis Kelce, 9.3M

Jordan Reed, 9.3M

Gronk, 9M

Greg Olsen, 8.5M

Ertz, 8.5M

Walker, 8.5M

Burton, 8M

Clay, 7.6M

You say Graham has a bad contract, you can find a slew of tight ends that I don't think are worth it.  For every Kelce or Ertz, there are 3 others who aren't living up to their deals either.

[SSG]

Just now, Cakeshoppe said:

This is the opposite of what Jimmy Graham is this year. He has 3 receptions, 2TDs on 8 targets in the red zone. It's his area of lowest productivity.

That's a usage difference.  My point is that he's a check down TE.  A guy who's not going to go up the field with much success.  A guy who's game is built around athleticism that he's no longer got.  He's a shell of the player we seen in New Orleans which is the player we're paying him to be.  

[Packerraymond]

32 minutes ago, SSG said:

That's a usage difference.  My point is that he's a check down TE.  A guy who's not going to go up the field with much success.  A guy who's game is built around athleticism that he's no longer got.  He's a shell of the player we seen in New Orleans which is the player we're paying him to be.  

Jimmy Graham from NO would be a 15-20m player in the FA market. Laughable to think 30/3 would get that guy.

We are paying Graham for pretty much what he is. This is FA, either you want to overpay to get players or you don't. Charles Woodson and Reggie White don't walk through that door every time.

Graham and Rodgers didn't click as well as we'd hoped year 1. It was a down year for everything not Davante as a whole on offense. Year 2 will determine if this signing was a bust.

[Leader]

Just read this and decided to throw it on the fire.

Andy Herman:

There have been a lot of disappointments this season but Jimmy Graham is right up there as one of the biggest. Throughout the first half of the season I was much more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. The truth is there’s never been a tight end who’s come in and immediately been on the same page with Aaron Rodgers. Jermichael Finley took a lot of time to develop that chemistry, while Jared Cook took over half the season in his year in Green Bay.

My hope was that Graham and Rodgers would be on the same page more towards the second half of the season but that’s never truly developed. Graham has been lazy in his blocking and lazy in his route running. He struggles to gain any semblance of separation, he lumbers after the catch, and is soft going up for 50/50 balls. Green Bay would be wise to move on from Graham in 2019. Yes he’s been hurt, but injuries shouldn’t affect effort.

[incognito_man]

Couple more things: 

GB would eat $7+ million in dead cap if we cut him (but save $5million in cap space) in 2019

Jimmy Graham got the 14th highest "practical guaranteed" contract among current tight ends.

[Victor1124]

29 minutes ago, Leader said:

Just read this and decided to throw it on the fire.

Andy Herman:

There have been a lot of disappointments this season but Jimmy Graham is right up there as one of the biggest. Throughout the first half of the season I was much more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. The truth is there’s never been a tight end who’s come in and immediately been on the same page with Aaron Rodgers. Jermichael Finley took a lot of time to develop that chemistry, while Jared Cook took over half the season in his year in Green Bay.

I feel like people are over using the excuse that Rodgers doesn’t gel with TEs quickly. While it takes time for a new player to gel in general, a majority of the TEs have been rookies or Graham and Bennett who just weren’t very good. Him and Cook had a good connection early the issue was Cook couldn’t stay healthy for a majority of that season.

 

[Victor1124]

10 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Yes!

The NFL is a cash flush league. 31 other teams are all bidding on the same guy. That drives the prices on the few good players sky high. 

If you're going to pull good proven players, you're going to pay a big premium for the privilege.

I get that the market causes teams to overpay but it wasn’t hard to see that the Graham deal was a bad one from a mile away. 

I’m fine with overpaying for good and promising players, not aging, inconsistent players that are a shell of their former self. I’m not someone who usually wants high priced free agents, I prefer mid tier guys and 1 year deals like Mo Wilkerson this offseason; that being said, I still don’t see why someone can’t want the Packers to sign good free agents but also acknowledge when a signing is a bust?