Oregon Ducks Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 i think PG is a better offensive player than Kyrie too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Brown Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 great, now that kyrie is going to boston, everyone is going to jump on my bandwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Higher usage rate, lower turnover rate, higher assist rate by a wide margin, considerably higher OWS, better shooting line. Paul George is essentially a great spot up shooter on offense. He doesn't create for others, he rarely drives, he rarely posts up. I'd take Paul George the player but saying he's better offensively than Kyrie? Eh, nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 22 minutes ago, Oregon Ducks said: i think PG is a better offensive player than Kyrie too. No he isn't lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Ducks Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Kyrie creates for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Kyrie has a considerably higher AST%, lower TOV% and has a better shooting line. I really don't even see an argument for Paul George offensively. Kyrie is a better passer, ball handler, shooter and drives the ball more. 65% of Paul Georges shot were 16 feet or farther compared to 45% for Irving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Here's how I see this trade - piece-by-piece. Isaiah Thomas: He will be 29 years of age when he becomes a free agent at the end of the season. Thomas is going to want the max money he is able to receive. This is a tricky situation because if you look at his production, you can understand why he wants that type of money. The question is - Is Isaiah Thomas worth the amount of money he is going to demand in free agency? The answer to that question, from my perspective, is no. So this puts the Cavaliers in a lose-lose situation. Either they pay Thomas the money he is going to demand or the Cavaliers don't pay Thomas and he walks. I don't think the Cavaliers win either way this goes. 2018 Brooklyn Nets first round pick: This is an asset in the trade that will not help the Cleveland Cavaliers this season and that is extremely important to remember. Some people will say, "they can trade this pick and bring in a quality player to help now", but that is not entirely true. The Cavaliers will not trade this pick as long as LeBron James continues to be non-committal. If James would be willing to re-sign with the Cavaliers, the Cavs would without a doubt trade the Nets pick. But they would be foolish to do so incase James leaves next off-season. Kyrie Irving: Here is a player who is coming off of the best season in his career. Irving is someone who I believe will continue to improve. He has always operated under poor coaching during his time with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Like I said in this thread yesterday - Going from Ty Lue to Brad Stevens is like going from a used Nissan to a brand new Mercedes Benz. Coaching has such a massive impact on players and how they develop and continue to develop over time. Stevens will help propel Irving to brand new heights and I believe Irving will become much more of a team player under Stevens. The best is yet to come. I left out Jae Crowder because that's purely a positive for the Cavaliers with no downsides. He's a terrific role player, but with that said, he is not a game-changer. Crowder has always been a solid player, but he has really flourished the past two seasons under Brad Stevens. I am interested to see if Crowder can continue his growth now playing for a vastly inferior head coach. With all of that said, I still believe the Cleveland Cavaliers will be in the 2017-2018 NBA Finals; however, I think the Celtics won this trade and that will become even more noticeable over the next couple of years. After hearing a lot of media personalities and reading tons of things over the internet, I believe most people believe the Cavaliers won this trade, so if you disagree with me that is not a surprise. The Celtics just had a hell of an off-season: Acquiring Gordon Hayward and Kyrie Irving via free agency and drafting Jayson Tatum who is going to be an amazing player. The only thing I did not like was getting rid of Avery Bradley, but I think Jaylen Brown is ready to really make his mark on this league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Yeah getting rid of Avery Bradley was a huge mistake IMO but to be fair, if we don't trade Avery we can't really trade Jae as that would've left us VERY weak at the 4 or "bigs" position in Stevens system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 2 hours ago, showtime said: ...I think the Celtics won this trade and that will become even more noticeable over the next couple of years... Its hard to truly predict who won yet because the trade isnt completely finshed. I think on who won the trade depends on two things. First, what Irving is able to do in Boston and if he signs long term with them. Second, the nets pick. Now if the Cavs swing that pick into getting another legit all star, that might swing it in favor of CLE or if they get a top3 pick and draft a young stud. I also believe this could be a wash too. That both teams walk out as winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Oregon Ducks said: Kyrie creates for others? When he sets his mind to it? Yes absolutely. His biggest problem is his mental grasp of things. And that includes his defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 3 hours ago, showtime said: Here's how I see this trade - piece-by-piece. Isaiah Thomas: He will be 29 years of age when he becomes a free agent at the end of the season. Thomas is going to want the max money he is able to receive. This is a tricky situation because if you look at his production, you can understand why he wants that type of money. The question is - Is Isaiah Thomas worth the amount of money he is going to demand in free agency? The answer to that question, from my perspective, is no. So this puts the Cavaliers in a lose-lose situation. Either they pay Thomas the money he is going to demand or the Cavaliers don't pay Thomas and he walks. I don't think the Cavaliers win either way this goes. 2018 Brooklyn Nets first round pick: This is an asset in the trade that will not help the Cleveland Cavaliers this season and that is extremely important to remember. Some people will say, "they can trade this pick and bring in a quality player to help now", but that is not entirely true. The Cavaliers will not trade this pick as long as LeBron James continues to be non-committal. If James would be willing to re-sign with the Cavaliers, the Cavs would without a doubt trade the Nets pick. But they would be foolish to do so incase James leaves next off-season. Kyrie Irving: Here is a player who is coming off of the best season in his career. Irving is someone who I believe will continue to improve. He has always operated under poor coaching during his time with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Like I said in this thread yesterday - Going from Ty Lue to Brad Stevens is like going from a used Nissan to a brand new Mercedes Benz. Coaching has such a massive impact on players and how they develop and continue to develop over time. Stevens will help propel Irving to brand new heights and I believe Irving will become much more of a team player under Stevens. The best is yet to come. I left out Jae Crowder because that's purely a positive for the Cavaliers with no downsides. He's a terrific role player, but with that said, he is not a game-changer. Crowder has always been a solid player, but he has really flourished the past two seasons under Brad Stevens. I am interested to see if Crowder can continue his growth now playing for a vastly inferior head coach. With all of that said, I still believe the Cleveland Cavaliers will be in the 2017-2018 NBA Finals; however, I think the Celtics won this trade and that will become even more noticeable over the next couple of years. After hearing a lot of media personalities and reading tons of things over the internet, I believe most people believe the Cavaliers won this trade, so if you disagree with me that is not a surprise. The Celtics just had a hell of an off-season: Acquiring Gordon Hayward and Kyrie Irving via free agency and drafting Jayson Tatum who is going to be an amazing player. The only thing I did not like was getting rid of Avery Bradley, but I think Jaylen Brown is ready to really make his mark on this league. The Cavs likely won't resign IT regardless of how you look at him. Right now LeBron isn't committing to the future and the fact that IT becomes a FA next year with LeBron works perfectly. They can make another run by replacing some of the offensive production from Irving with IT this year, plus Rose and Calderon, and then if LeBron leaves you let IT takes his talents elsewhere as well adn start rebuilding with the Brooklyn pick, trading Love + Crowder for more assets etc. IT is nothing but a stop gap to help them compete this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Oregon Ducks said: i think PG is a better offensive player than Kyrie too. No. KD brought up a good point on Bill Simmons podcast about Kyrie being a pure hooper and not liking all the distractions that come with playing alongside LeBron. Also that he was tired of being in an offensive system where there is little to no structure and just two guys going out and making plays themselves. Stevens is going to be a godsend for Kyrie. Obviously he will have some adjusting to do, but his all around game should instantly improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: No. KD brought up a good point on Bill Simmons podcast about Kyrie being a pure hooper and not liking all the distractions that come with playing alongside LeBron. Also that he was tired of being in an offensive system where there is little to no structure and just two guys going out and making plays themselves. Stevens is going to be a godsend for Kyrie. Obviously he will have some adjusting to do, but his all around game should instantly improve. One of the main reasons I didn't want LeBron back was I knew how the offense would become. I wanted to see what Irving/Waiters/Wiggins/Thompson/Zeller could've done under Blatt running a legit offense. I mean I'm happy for the title, but LeBron has so much baggage and puts your team in a bad spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 You have to take the little bad with LeBron as for the most part there is a whole a lot of GREAT when he is on your team. LeBron not buying into a legitimate offense will always be baffling, especially end of games. Just such a tiring way of playing offense that limits the impact of everyone else when he goes into those pick and roll modes in 4th quarters. Life would be so much easier if his teams used more motion offense and got him the ball on the block instead at the three point line. One good thing about getting Thomas is he is basically an isolation or heavy pick and roll player himself and a bucket getter that you have to be playing with LeBron's offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Bonanza23 said: When he sets his mind to it? Yes absolutely. His biggest problem is his mental grasp of things. And that includes his defense. It's a shame he doesn't set his mind to it 95% of the time. Far too content to settle for contested jumpers early in the shot clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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