Thelonebillsfan Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Trading Wentz to the Patriots as Tom's heir apparent would kill me inside. Wentz is better. He is flatly better. Foles tried repeatedly yesterday to lose the Eagkes the game. Hes a backup that's gotten hot in a few important games and looks like Nick Foles the rest of the time. Don't trade the future because of short sighted stupidity. Wentz was just as good this year as he was last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 The starting point for any conversations for Wentz would be 4 first round picks. i.e. he's not going to be traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelonebillsfan Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Danger said: The starting point for any conversations for Wentz would be 4 first round picks. i.e. he's not going to be traded. Minimum. An MVP level QB under 26. On an affordable contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 42 minutes ago, Eagles $5$ said: Yeah because he was so awful this year right??? 9 months removed from tearing up all of his knee. Foles winning another SB is tapped out and maxed out... Wentz is the long term answer. Where did I mention a long term answer? Under the scenario we laid out of the Eagles winning the SB again.... that would be two years back-to-back SB champs. And this year the Eagles weren't even in the postseason when Wentz got hurt. Foles came in and led the Eagles to several victories for them to get into the playoffs. Obviously Foles isn't a long term answer, but how can you bench a guy who has been so great for you and was a major part in winning two straight SB's? You'd have to start Foles next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMossIsBoss Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I want to get this out of the way: odds are the Eagles stick with Wentz, and everyone knows this, right? He's younger, more physically talented, arguably the better QB. They traded a lot to get him, they love him, we love him, he's the chosen one who was given the reigns to the franchise, etc. Injuries have made the issue somewhat murkier, but in reality, probably not enough to make the franchise change course. Now without even reading the thread I am sure most people, especially NFCE rivals, are saying "oh man I hope they keep Wentz and cut Foles LOL" because they are playing it safe in that they know that is the likely outcome. These same people were happy to call Foles and our SB run a fluke last year, but now will be happy to act like Foles is a great QB and we'd be making a massive mistake to cut him. I don't believe for a second these types of posts are genuine, I think it's coping 101, but I digress. Maybe I'm wrong and people actually do think Foles is special. If Foles somehow wins another SB, hell even if he reaches the CC, I think the FO will actually have the discussion, they may already be there. A lot of it would come down to Doug and why exactly the offense seems to "peak" with Foles, if he's got legitimate reasons (specific traits of Foles that allow him to do x), then I could see them seriously consider moving on from Wentz. It'll take a lot to move Wentz though, even if they decide to roll with Foles, they very well could keep Wentz through his 5th year option if there isn't a package of at least multiple 1sts. and roll with the guy who is 4 years older, less physically talented, arguably the inferior QB, BUT the more proven winner and crunch time performer within Doug's system. I wouldn't like it, to me it's like picking Eli over Peyton (of course not quite as drastic since I am in no way predicting Wentz to be GOAT-esque), in that you'd be sacrificing the better talent for "clutch", but I could live with it since it would mean a very nice return. Ideally you keep both be under contract through next season. Wentz is obviously still on the rookie deal, and Foles has a $20M option that can be picked up. Foles genuinely loves Philly so I really don't think there would be any internal drama, the only question is money. Howie would have to work usual cap magic and maybe even some sacrifices would have to be made to keep Foles. $20M is a small price to pay for making sure you are making the right decision at your QB for the foreseeable future IYAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 34 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: A QB carrying your team to two Super Bowls is maxed out? Boy, I wish I had a bunch of players that were maxed out at "Super Bowl Champs". I don't think there's a chance in hell that Foles and the Eagles repeat, but if they do, you have to keep Foles as the starter. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying anything insane like give Foles a 8 year deal or something like that. But the guy was a MAJOR reason the Eagles won the SB last season. In the scenario we laid out, the Eagles would win it again this year. If that happens, how can you justify benching Foles next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said: arguably the better QB I'm just curious, as an Eagles fan, why is this? Last season, even after Foles helped the Eagles win the Superbowl EVERYONE was saying Wentz is clearly the superior QB and it's not close. Now it seems to have shifted among plenty of people in general that this topic has now become arguable, with some people saying that Wentz is obviously younger and he's more physically talented - but Foles is just a better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagles23 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, showtime said: I'm just curious, as an Eagles fan, why is this? Last season, even after Foles helped the Eagles win the Superbowl EVERYONE was saying Wentz is clearly the superior QB and it's not close. Now it seems to have shifted among plenty of people in general that this topic has now become arguable, with some people saying that Wentz is obviously younger and he's more physically talented - but Foles is just a better player. Its a weird thing happening with Foles right now. If Wentz played the type of game Foles did last night, there would be TONS of criticism. Foles plays that game and people and using it drive conversations that Wentz is expendable Biggest difference between the two is that Foles seems very laid back and dont mind just throwing it up. Its just a football game for him. Wentz seems to think too much. There are times when one is more beneficial than the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagles $5$ Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 People realize that Foles didn't play well at all last night right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Eagles23 said: Its a weird thing happening with Foles right now. If Wentz played the type of game Foles did last night, there would be TONS of criticism. Foles plays that game and people and using it drive conversations that Wentz is expendable Biggest difference between the two is that Foles seems very laid back and dont mind just throwing it up. Its just a football game for him. Wentz seems to think too much. There are times when one is more beneficial than the other I know Foles wasn't all that great last night, but it was against the Bears great defense in Chicago. And the Eagles came out with a victory, which is all that matters. There's just something about Foles, though. Like the players on both sides of the ball just respond to the game better when he's playing. It's almost like they believe in him more or something. I'm not saying that, just things I've heard from reports in the media, etc. I'm really not seeing any way the Eagles go into New Orleans and beat the Saints, so I think all of this stops next week. But still, even if the Eagles lose, he did a hell of a job again. When he took the reigns, the Eagles were looking doubtful for the postseason and he played big to help get them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mld Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, Eagles $5$ said: People realize that Foles didn't play well at all last night right?? you're right, I think this conversation is more of a what if foles wins back to back super bowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMossIsBoss Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 34 minutes ago, showtime said: I'm just curious, as an Eagles fan, why is this? Last season, even after Foles helped the Eagles win the Superbowl EVERYONE was saying Wentz is clearly the superior QB and it's not close. Now it seems to have shifted among plenty of people in general that this topic has now become arguable, with some people saying that Wentz is obviously younger and he's more physically talented - but Foles is just a better player. -Stronger arm, can put much more velocity on his throws and doesn't need a platform to throw. (most obvious) -Smarter with the ball, doesn't put the ball in harms way often, when he does it's usually because he's made a pre-snap misjudgment and is throwing the ball right at the snap. It's become rarer and rarer for Wentz to have time to read the field and make a bad decision. Foles still can be prone to some pretty horrendous decisions, and boy does he love throwing off his back foot. (most important) -More mobile. Can escape from pressure whereas Foles is a sitting duck. He's a legit threat to run and can pick up 1st downs with his legs. ^These are the main pro-Carson traits that come to mind. Another reason most Eagles fans were adamant that Wentz is clearly the superior option, and for sure my biggest reason, was simply not buying the Foles hype. We saw him put up a 28-2 season, 3rd best passer rating EVER, and then look like a league average QB we were almost winning in spite of before he was lost for the season. You see flaws in his game that as a seasoned vet you can't really expect him to fix. There are things Foles does better, namely he has proven he can rise up in crunch time whereas Carson has not (nor has he had many opportunities), and he trusts outside WRs more which is my best guess as to why the offense seems to function better with him (outside of the idea that everyone around him plays better because they feel they can afford to be complacent with Carson, which may or may not be a load of bull but is often floated around). Also it's not like it's pure game of the "iTest," the numbers still favor Carson, who again is only 3 years in with only 2 full offseasons under his belt. Wentz^: 265 yards, 2.25 TDs, .58 INTs, 102 passer rating Foles*: 277 yards, 1.74 TDs, .78 INTs, 95.3 passer rating ^24 games *11.5 games since he only played 1 quarter each against Rams and Cowboys in 2017) The only argument for Foles, besides just saying he has the it factor, is Carson's health. Valid concern, but obviously one that most Eagles fans don't take too seriously (TBD whether they're right or wrong), which is why I think most of our fan base is still pretty adamant that Wentz is the superior QB... of course at the same time, there's something to be said about a QB who wins 2 SBs, or even drags this squad to a CC game, so that's why even those who may tell you Carson is flat out better, might prefer rolling with Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asciimo Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Brady, this year, and next year's 1st for Wentz. Brady goes out a champion into the sunset, Pats have their next franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 The reason people think Foles is a better player primarily come down to, the rest of the team. The team just expects Carson to carry them, and pretty much lies down. They didn't do anything right in terms of fundamentals making countless stupid mistakes, that happen far more often than when Foles is playing. The rest of the team finally realizes when Carson has gone out "We gotta pull our own weight now." It's honestly disgraceful on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesPeteC Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 The op spelled Foles wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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