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Rolni

Raiders Defense

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Posted (edited)
On 7/22/2019 at 5:38 AM, Rolni said:

Why are you such optimistic about our run D?

We still have a well below average LB corp and too much is depending on the improvement of 2 young DT's and 3 young DE's IMO. 

Run D is Jelly and Hankins at DT with Mauro and Ferrell at DE. 3 experienced/aging/slow as f whatever you want to call it LB's will play run first. We will get killed in down distance where they should run but pass 4th and 1 for example but that's where we leave in the young speedy DB's who might only be average against the run but can cover ground quick.This is where Joyner should play FS and Abram or Harris at SS for more size closer to the LOS. 

Pass D I feel good about the DB's but young LB's need to step up and replace the vets unless Marshall has enough in the tank. Pass rush will probably still lack but Hurst and Hall will probably get more inside push and be disruptive which helps break down the pocket and play to our DE's. The DB's should hold a bit longer and get more picks. This is all dependent on chemistry. It wasn't there last season and we have a lot of new faces that have talent but no experience playing together. We need to stay in the hunt to keep them motivated and our first 2 games are a must with our schedule. Ball out, win and build confidence early then the chemistry will come and I can eat some crow ala carte. :D

Sorry going back to negative now. Gotta be consistent. (LOL) Got invited to the Monday night game and turned the invite down and stated I'm still to salty about Mack to want to go. I don't need to sour a bbq/beer tailgate with my negativity. Pizza, TV and I'm good. Go Raiders...

Edited by G

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15 hours ago, G said:

Run D is Jelly and Hankins at DT with Mauro and Ferrell at DE. 3 experienced/aging/slow as f whatever you want to call it LB's will play run first. We will get killed in down distance where they should run but pass 4th and 1 for example but that's where we leave in the young speedy DB's who might only be average against the run but can cover ground quick.This is where Joyner should play FS and Abram or Harris at SS for more size closer to the LOS. 

Pass D I feel good about the DB's but young LB's need to step up and replace the vets unless Marshall has enough in the tank. Pass rush will probably still lack but Hurst and Hall will probably get more inside push and be disruptive which helps break down the pocket and play to our DE's. The DB's should hold a bit longer and get more picks. This is all dependent on chemistry. It wasn't there last season and we have a lot of new faces that have talent but no experience playing together. We need to stay in the hunt to keep them motivated and our first 2 games are a must with our schedule. Ball out, win and build confidence early then the chemistry will come and I can eat some crow ala carte. :D

Sorry going back to negative now. Gotta be consistent. (LOL) Got invited to the Monday night game and turned the invite down and stated I'm still to salty about Mack to want to go. I don't need to sour a bbq/beer tailgate with my negativity. Pizza, TV and I'm good. Go Raiders...

I also think our "run D line" of Mauro-Jelly-Hankins-Ferrell should be a stout one and even our base line of Mauro-Hankins-Hurst-Ferrell should be a good one. I also think that Whitehead and Burfict will be able to play solid against the run behind lines like those, especially in the middle. The issue could be with the outside runs when they get past the DE's. The lack of speed at LB could cause big plays...

Then again I agree with you that our pass D will still be an issue, especially against the quick passing game to the middle IMO, which could be used as an alternate to the running game, so while our run D could be a solid one we could still allow too many 1st downs IMO.

I like our DB's speed and ability to cover (Worley not so much, but the rest looks good&fast), but the middle of the field will be still an area of issue against the pass, since B.Marshall is our best cover LB, who is a veteran guy, who might lost a step...it will be interesting whether we use a guy like Erik Harris as a cover LB/SS hybrid or try to use Tahir or Vontaze...

I think we need to figure out what our D is good at and should live and die by that. What I mean is that we have a chance to be a solid run D and a solid deep pass D, with short pass issues, especially against TE's. We shouldn't try to cover our weakness too much, cause we will loose our strong points then. Shouldn't abandone the run D or shouldn't pull the S too close, since we will get smoked with big plays then. We should focus on what we can do good and then should overcome our weakness with the help of the offense. 

Interesting that PG's philosophy is that bend but don't break approach where he wants to limit the big plays and want to make the O's earn thise first downs one by one. Suprisingly (or not) this roster could be solid for that philosophy IMO IF we can finally generate some pressure. The improvement of Hurst, Hall, Key and the ability of Ferrell early on will be trully crucial to our defensive success IMO. If the DT's can build on their solid rookie campaigns and Ferrell can be a reliable option early on and Key can offer us speed as a situational rusher we could be alright. Mayowa should also help and Crosby could also give us a push here and there with his lenght and speed.

To me it is kinda funny how big of a deal some are making about our LB core, but I think in this scheme they are not the important parts and the offseason moves suggest to me that PG, Gruden and Mayock thinks that way too. If our DL can play good ball we need just a little help from the LB unit with the speed we have now at the back end. Whitehead, Burfict and Marshall will need to line up correctly, will have to help out the young guys with communication and then they need to react to the offensive plays in time. With their experience they should be able to do that alright.

We can tweak it all we want but in the end this game is trully about the trenches and about the QB. We need a good DL, a good OL and Carr to really step back to that tier 2/tier 1 level. Right now I have higher hope for our DL then I have for our OL...most probably only because of Cable...if we would have a new OL coach, I would be pretty optimistic after the TB singing :)

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Posted (edited)
On 7/25/2019 at 3:43 AM, Rolni said:

 

We can tweak it all we want but in the end this game is trully about the trenches and about the QB. We need a good DL, a good OL and Carr to really step back to that tier 2/tier 1 level. Right now I have higher hope for our DL then I have for our OL...most probably only because of Cable...if we would have a new OL coach, I would be pretty optimistic after the TB singing :)

I really like our oline depth but have no confidence in coaching them with Cable's attached. I'm a firm believer that Jon is waiting for the Washington axe to fall to get Bill C. and maybe his brother...

Agreed with all the 'D' discussion and hopefully the young LB's can earn some time and shine.

Edited by G

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On 7/24/2019 at 5:31 AM, Rolni said:

And this is why I think he might end up being the starting/base LDE for us. Ferrell should start at RDE and then they can move Ferrell, Key, Mayowa and Crosby around on 3rd downs...

My guess as well. 

LE - Mauro 

3T - Hurst

NT - Hankins

RE - Ferrell 

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On 25/07/2019 at 11:43 AM, Rolni said:

I also think our "run D line" of Mauro-Jelly-Hankins-Ferrell should be a stout one and even our base line of Mauro-Hankins-Hurst-Ferrell should be a good one. I also think that Whitehead and Burfict will be able to play solid against the run behind lines like those, especially in the middle. The issue could be with the outside runs when they get past the DE's. The lack of speed at LB could cause big plays...

Then again I agree with you that our pass D will still be an issue, especially against the quick passing game to the middle IMO, which could be used as an alternate to the running game, so while our run D could be a solid one we could still allow too many 1st downs IMO.

I like our DB's speed and ability to cover (Worley not so much, but the rest looks good&fast), but the middle of the field will be still an area of issue against the pass, since B.Marshall is our best cover LB, who is a veteran guy, who might lost a step...it will be interesting whether we use a guy like Erik Harris as a cover LB/SS hybrid or try to use Tahir or Vontaze...

I think we need to figure out what our D is good at and should live and die by that. What I mean is that we have a chance to be a solid run D and a solid deep pass D, with short pass issues, especially against TE's. We shouldn't try to cover our weakness too much, cause we will loose our strong points then. Shouldn't abandone the run D or shouldn't pull the S too close, since we will get smoked with big plays then. We should focus on what we can do good and then should overcome our weakness with the help of the offense. 

Interesting that PG's philosophy is that bend but don't break approach where he wants to limit the big plays and want to make the O's earn thise first downs one by one. Suprisingly (or not) this roster could be solid for that philosophy IMO IF we can finally generate some pressure. The improvement of Hurst, Hall, Key and the ability of Ferrell early on will be trully crucial to our defensive success IMO. If the DT's can build on their solid rookie campaigns and Ferrell can be a reliable option early on and Key can offer us speed as a situational rusher we could be alright. Mayowa should also help and Crosby could also give us a push here and there with his lenght and speed.

To me it is kinda funny how big of a deal some are making about our LB core, but I think in this scheme they are not the important parts and the offseason moves suggest to me that PG, Gruden and Mayock thinks that way too. If our DL can play good ball we need just a little help from the LB unit with the speed we have now at the back end. Whitehead, Burfict and Marshall will need to line up correctly, will have to help out the young guys with communication and then they need to react to the offensive plays in time. With their experience they should be able to do that alright.

We can tweak it all we want but in the end this game is trully about the trenches and about the QB. We need a good DL, a good OL and Carr to really step back to that tier 2/tier 1 level. Right now I have higher hope for our DL then I have for our OL...most probably only because of Cable...if we would have a new OL coach, I would be pretty optimistic after the TB singing :)

Really good post, and I totally agree with the sentiment that we can't be focussed on too many things. We do look pretty solid against the run and the 3 safeties Joseph, Joyner and Abram will all play the run well. I do like the look of Morrow at LB and he seems to be our best cover LB so he may see a bigger role on obvious passing situations and interesting thought about Harris maybe slotting in as S/LB hybrid.

I'm not expecting any of our guys to be pass rush phenoms this year and don't expect anyone to break double digit sacks, but if a few guys can add 4 or 5 like Ferrel, Hurst, Mayowa, Key, & Hall then we could be a D that keeps us in games. I don't think our D will win us many games but if it can just stop losing us games that would be a major improvement.

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5 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Really good post, and I totally agree with the sentiment that we can't be focussed on too many things. We do look pretty solid against the run and the 3 safeties Joseph, Joyner and Abram will all play the run well. I do like the look of Morrow at LB and he seems to be our best cover LB so he may see a bigger role on obvious passing situations and interesting thought about Harris maybe slotting in as S/LB hybrid.

I'm not expecting any of our guys to be pass rush phenoms this year and don't expect anyone to break double digit sacks, but if a few guys can add 4 or 5 like Ferrel, Hurst, Mayowa, Key, & Hall then we could be a D that keeps us in games. I don't think our D will win us many games but if it can just stop losing us games that would be a major improvement.

Well said!

 

Gruden is an offensive coach and he will have to win games with his offense. I think he likes this challenge and he wants a reliable, solid D to go along with his high powered O. I imagine that is his vision and I think PG and this roster can give him what he needs on the defensive side against the average and bad teams. They will struggle against the best O's, so if Jon wants a winning season he will have to really shine as a playcaller and his O, his QB will have to play great in multiple games and will have to be good in almost every game IMO.

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1 hour ago, Rolni said:

Well said!

 

Gruden is an offensive coach and he will have to win games with his offense. I think he likes this challenge and he wants a reliable, solid D to go along with his high powered O. I imagine that is his vision and I think PG and this roster can give him what he needs on the defensive side against the average and bad teams. They will struggle against the best O's, so if Jon wants a winning season he will have to really shine as a playcaller and his O, his QB will have to play great in multiple games and will have to be good in almost every game IMO.

Agreed.. think that's why they double dipped at CB on top of Joyner signing. Abram for back end. More depth than years past at weak point. 

 

Once we get a top DE to go with ferrel we should be good to go. 

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1 hour ago, roi34 said:

Agreed.. think that's why they double dipped at CB on top of Joyner signing. Abram for back end. More depth than years past at weak point. 

 

Once we get a top DE to go with ferrel we should be good to go. 

The D could surprise. LBs are still suspect with Marshall and Burfect, but they could certainly be very good. 

The sevondary is much better for sure. I think the Defensive line will not be the typical pass rushers on the ends rather than the pass rush will come primarily from the middle. 

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The defense is a year away. I wanna see who can play and who can't. Next year IMO, between our 2 1sts and FA, we will add another DE, and a coverage LB.

That will really give this defense an identity after we've hopefully built up some decent talent/depth.

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On 7/29/2019 at 6:52 AM, Chali21 said:

The sevondary is much better for sure. I think the Defensive line will not be the typical pass rushers on the ends rather than the pass rush will come primarily from the middle. 

1

Gruden has been hyping Jonathan Hankins up all camp and said he might be our most improved player. If Hankins/Hurst can generate consistent pressure from the middle it will take a lot of pressure off our edge guys. We obviously don't have a dominant rusher but if Gunther gets creative we should have a decent pass rush by committee. 

In a perfect world I'd like to see:

Ferrell - 7 sacks

Mayowa - 4 sacks

Hurst - 5 sacks

Hankins - 4 sacks

Key - 5 sacks

LB's - 5 sacks 

Hall - 2 sacks

Crosby - 2 sacks

DB's - 3 sacks

Mauro - 1 sack

That'd put us at 38 sacks on the season, a huge upgrade over last year, and good enough to be a middle of the pack pass-rushing team.

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Any guesses on what the starting D will be? I'm assuming...

LE - Josh Mauro 

NT - Johnathan Hankins

3T - Mo Hurst

RE - Clelin Ferrell 

WLB - Tahir Whitehead

MLB - Vontaze Burfict

SLB - Brandon Marshall

CB - Gareon Conley

CB - Travyon Mullen

SS - Johnathan Abram 

FS - LaMarcus Joyner

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8 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Any guesses on what the starting D will be? I'm assuming...

LE - Josh Mauro 

NT - Johnathan Hankins

3T - Mo Hurst

RE - Clelin Ferrell 

WLB - Tahir Whitehead

MLB - Vontaze Burfict

SLB - Brandon Marshall

CB - Gareon Conley

CB - Travyon Mullen

SS - Johnathan Abram 

FS - LaMarcus Joyner

I think you'd be pretty close there, I think Worley probably starts at CB and the 3 safeties might interchange and we'll be in Nickel a decent amount so we'll have Joseph, Joyner and Abram on the field at the same time quite a bit. I'm a fan of Joseph so think he will probably start ahead of the rookie but they'll all 3 work together pretty well I think.

The DL will be an interesting one, news filtering through from TC appears to be favouring Mauro and Hankins at the moment. Hall, Ellis, Mayowa, Crosby and key all vying for serious playing time. I think we'll see a heavily rotated line when the season actually starts due to no player being head and shoulders above the rest.

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1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Any guesses on what the starting D will be? I'm assuming...

LE - Josh Mauro 

NT - Johnathan Hankins

3T - Mo Hurst

RE - Clelin Ferrell 

WLB - Tahir Whitehead

MLB - Vontaze Burfict

SLB - Brandon Marshall

CB - Gareon Conley

CB - Travyon Mullen

SS - Johnathan Abram 

FS - LaMarcus Joyner

Basically this, Worley instead of Mullens, and Joseph initially over Abram. But Joyner will play slot in nickel, and Abram will slide in for a lot of plays. I think we play with Joyner, Abram more often then not. Sounds like Joseph is taking a leadership role, and poised to a be rock

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30 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

Basically this, Worley instead of Mullens, and Joseph initially over Abram. But Joyner will play slot in nickel, and Abram will slide in for a lot of plays. I think we play with Joyner, Abram more often then not. Sounds like Joseph is taking a leadership role, and poised to a be rock

Everything that has come out about Abram in camp is that he has been better than advertised. Literally, everyone has been singing his praises. 

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