NYRaider Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: This is encouraging for Crosby. Do you have pressure #'s? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/defense_advanced.htm According to this Crosby had 32 and Yannick had 26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Yeah that was pretty good. Yannick has definitely had good pass rush production throughout his career but his best years have also come on defensive lines with better pass rushers than him. In 3/4 years in Jacksonville they had another 10+ sack guy who out produced him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Yannick has definitely had good pass rush production throughout his career but his best years have also come on defensive lines with better pass rushers than him. In 3/4 years in Jacksonville they had another 10+ sack guy who out produced him. I'll even take decent production, like 7-8 sacks with some pressure. He doesn't need to be a pro bowler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Yannick has definitely had good pass rush production throughout his career but his best years have also come on defensive lines with better pass rushers than him. In 3/4 years in Jacksonville they had another 10+ sack guy who out produced him. Someone else gets it! Thank God. I want Yannick to be an absolute stud for us and register double digit sacks and completely change our defense. But the "savior" reaction so many had to his signing was all hype, imo. Crosby has shown as much, with worse around him, yet everyone seems ready to relegate him to a situational role. Crosby on Yannick's teams....I don't really see much difference in production. Yannick might be the superior athlete, and that's totally fine. But many Raiders fans have hyped him up like he's the next prime Von Miller, and there's a ton of context being ignored. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I'll even take decent production, like 7-8 sacks with some pressure. He doesn't need to be a pro bowler. I think those two playing together off the edges on passing downs will help them both. Hopefully our interior pass rush can do something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Yannick has definitely had good pass rush production throughout his career but his best years have also come on defensive lines with better pass rushers than him. In 3/4 years in Jacksonville they had another 10+ sack guy who out produced him. You've posted a bunch of very interesting stats and it's thought provoking for sure but what exactly are you arguing here, that Crosby is better than Ngakoue? or that Ngakoue is overrated? Crosby underrated? or that Ngakoue won't be the white knight on his stead rushing in to save our pass rush that some seem to think? I'm genuinely curious where you're going with this 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Darbsk said: You've posted a bunch of very interesting stats and it's thought provoking for sure but what exactly are you arguing here, that Crosby is better than Ngakoue? or that Ngakoue is overrated? Crosby underrated? or that Ngakoue won't be the white knight on his stead rushing in to save our pass rush that some seem to think? I'm genuinely curious where you're going with this 😀 My argument was that Yannick is more of a complimentary pass rusher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: As a rookie he had 10 sacks, 16 TFL, 16 hurries, and 4 QB hits. In his second season he had 7 sacks, 14 TFL, 19 hurries, and 6 QB hits. And as I posted earlier he has outproduced Yannick over the last two seasons despite being on much worse defenses/defensive lines. Right. But I already explained to you how.. A.Yannick has been more consistent throughout his career with teams having to study him(see the stats I posted concerning why he has more pressure than everyone except Aaron Donald. B. The stats are also skewed because it’s really all based off of combination of Crosby had 10 sacks his rookie year and the fact that Yannick went from playing defensive end in a 4-3 for only 5 games(where he had five sacks) to being a linebacker in a 3-4 for the rest of the season(and only had three sacks) The better question to ask is who was better during the first five games of the season when they were both playing in a 4-3 defense(The answer is Ngakoue in case you were wondering) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said: Right. But I already explained to you how.. A.Yannick has been more consistent throughout his career with teams having to study him(see the stats I posted concerning why he has more pressure than everyone except Aaron Donald. B. The stats are also skewed because it’s really all based off of combination of Crosby had 10 sacks his rookie year and the fact that Yannick went from playing defensive end in a 4-3 for only 5 games(where he had five sacks) to being a linebacker in a 3-4 for the rest of the season(and only had three sacks) The better question to ask is who was better during the first five games of the season when they were both playing in a 4-3 defense(The answer is Ngakoue in case you were wondering) Yannick had 8 sacks as a rookie as a mid-round pick on a bad team just like Crosby. The following 3 seasons he had 12.5, 9.5, and 8 sacks but played with another 10+ sack pass rusher that out produced him. Pro Football Reference doesn't have advanced defensive stats before 2018. But in 2018 when he played with prime Calias Campbell he had 51 pressures, in 2019 when Campbell started to decline he only had 27 pressures, and he only had 26 pressures last season. I think Yannick is a good player and will help our pass rush for sure. But he has never been at any point in his career a dominant #1 pass rusher, his best years of production came on stacked defensive lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Yannick had 8 sacks as a rookie as a mid-round pick on a bad team just like Crosby. The following 3 seasons he had 12.5, 9.5, and 8 sacks but played with another 10+ sack pass rusher that out produced him. Pro Football Reference doesn't have advanced defensive stats before 2018. But in 2018 when he played with prime Calias Campbell he had 51 pressures, in 2019 when Campbell started to decline he only had 27 pressures, and he only had 26 pressures last season. I think Yannick is a good player and will help our pass rush for sure. But he has never been at any point in his career a dominant #1 pass rusher, his best years of production came on stacked defensive lines. Again if he’s a complementary pass rusher why does he have more pressures than every other edgerusher since he’s been in the league? And if there’s some reason that you come up with for that, why has no other complementary pass rusher done that? Edited June 13, 2021 by Jeremy408 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: Again if he’s a complementary pass rusher why does he have more pressures than every other edgerusher since he’s been in the league? And if there’s some reason that you come up with for that, why has no other complementary pass rusher done that? Maxx Crosby has been more productive over the last two seasons, is he an elite #1 pass rusher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Quote "In 2017, he generated an 88.2 PFF pass-rushing grade and notched 82 total pressures, but as the defense was dismantled around him, he hasn’t come close to replicating that level of impact since," PFF wrote about Ngakoue. "Ngakoue's speed and burst as an edge rusher are rare physical gifts, and his tape proves he can dominate, but that lack of consistency since 2017 is what keeps him this low on the list." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 5 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: Someone else gets it! Thank God. I want Yannick to be an absolute stud for us and register double digit sacks and completely change our defense. But the "savior" reaction so many had to his signing was all hype, imo. Crosby has shown as much, with worse around him, yet everyone seems ready to relegate him to a situational role. Crosby on Yannick's teams....I don't really see much difference in production. Yannick might be the superior athlete, and that's totally fine. But many Raiders fans have hyped him up like he's the next prime Von Miller, and there's a ton of context being ignored. Who's hyped him up like this on our forum? He's a legit top 15-20 pass rusher. And if he can turn it on, he's capable of being a pro bowl caliber edge. I'm not saying he will be, but he was a massive addition. He can help free up Maxx and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: Maxx Crosby has been more productive over the last two seasons, is he an elite #1 pass rusher? You can’t compare a year and a half sample size to six-year sample size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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