Raiders Defense

[101Raider]

Just now, 101Raider said:

Anyone who thinks he’s getting big numbers is deluding themselves.  Playing primarily as a 5T is not historically a big sack numbers position 

Plus I’m thinking his arc is going to be similar to the Chiefs high draft pick  Tyson Jackson.  Solid player, but nothing spectacular.  

 

[ronjon1990]

10 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I think Ferrell will increase his production as soon as we get better play around him like he had at Clemson.  His production at Clemson was inflated by the players he had around him.

That Clemson line in relative to the competition?

Ferrell would essentially have to play alongside Aaron Donald, Leonard Williams, and Myles Garrett. 

If that's what it takes to get more production out of him, we're screwed. 

[drfrey13]

20 hours ago, 101Raider said:

Anyone who thinks he’s getting big numbers is deluding themselves.  Playing primarily as a 5T is not historically a big sack numbers position 

Plus I’m thinking his arc is going to be similar to Chiefs Tyson Jackson.  Solid player, but nothing spectacular.  

I do not see him as a 10 sack guy but his production will increase as players around him get more attention.  I think he can average 6-7 sacks a year which would be double what he is now.  I hope he will be a better player than Jackson but Ferrell is already a much better pass rusher.  Jackson had 9 sacks in 122 games.  Also Jackson tested and measured more like a 3T.  He ran a 4.94 40 and weighed 294.  Ferrell was only 264 coming out.

[drfrey13]

15 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

That Clemson line in relative to the competition?

Ferrell would essentially have to play alongside Aaron Donald, Leonard Williams, and Myles Garrett. 

If that's what it takes to get more production out of him, we're screwed. 

Not relative to the pros but his Clemson d-line was arguably more talented than our line the past 2 years.  I would take Lawrence and Wilkins over Hankins and any of our 17 3 techs we have on the roster right now.  Lawrence is probably a big reason why Leonard Williams looked better.  I would have taken Lawrence over Ferrell in 2018 and he has the same amount of sacks as Ferrell in his first 2 years.  He can also take on double teams and win.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

Not relative to the pros but his Clemson d-line was arguably more talented than our line the past 2 years.  I would take Lawrence and Wilkins over Hankins and any of our 17 3 techs we have on the roster right now.  Lawrence is probably a big reason why Leonard Williams looked better.  I would have taken Lawrence over Ferrell in 2018 and he has the same amount of sacks as Ferrell in his first 2 years.  He can also take on double teams and win.

That's my big issue taking guys from stacked units. 

That Clemson DL was so superior to their usual competition that all of the guys on it looked far more dominant than they probably were/are. 

I never liked the Ferrell pick for that reason (and why I don't gush over guys like Ruggs until they actually show me something). I always say give me the clear NFL talent on an otherwise untalented unit over someone who (likely) benefitted from the other stars around him. 

I digress though. My main point was that I always felt like Ferrell was the beneficiary of playing on a unit so above and beyond the majority of their competition that it would probably take a HoF unit for him to ever look nearly as good at the NFL level. 

[Humble_Beast]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

That's my big issue taking guys from stacked units. 

That Clemson DL was so superior to their usual competition that all of the guys on it looked far more dominant than they probably were/are. 

I never liked the Ferrell pick for that reason (and why I don't gush over guys like Ruggs until they actually show me something). I always say give me the clear NFL talent on an otherwise untalented unit over someone who (likely) benefitted from the other stars around him. 

I digress though. My main point was that I always felt like Ferrell was the beneficiary of playing on a unit so above and beyond the majority of their competition that it would probably take a HoF unit for him to ever look nearly as good at the NFL level. 

ya, that and being a limited athlete. This a big year for Ferrell

[SimonGruber]

8 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

ya, that and being a limited athlete. This a big year for Ferrell

If I recall correctly management drafted with him without some or most agility drills. Either way hope coaches can squeeze out a good year from him

[drfrey13]

17 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

That's my big issue taking guys from stacked units. 

That Clemson DL was so superior to their usual competition that all of the guys on it looked far more dominant than they probably were/are. 

I never liked the Ferrell pick for that reason (and why I don't gush over guys like Ruggs until they actually show me something). I always say give me the clear NFL talent on an otherwise untalented unit over someone who (likely) benefitted from the other stars around him. 

I digress though. My main point was that I always felt like Ferrell was the beneficiary of playing on a unit so above and beyond the majority of their competition that it would probably take a HoF unit for him to ever look nearly as good at the NFL level. 

I would agree with the exception of Lawrence.  If you watch his games he is freeing everyone else up to make plays and is even doing it himself with the extra attention.  One of Ferrells highlights is when he gets a sack by beating a TE and Lawrence is taking on a triple team without giving an inch.  That kid is a beast.

[Turnobili]

whats been really disappointing about Cle has been his get-off. he was never an elite athlete, but watch him clemson tape and he was always the first guy off the snap. havent seem him jump off the screen like that in the pros

[Jeremy408]

 

[drfrey13]

6 hours ago, Turnobili said:

whats been really disappointing about Cle has been his get-off. he was never an elite athlete, but watch him clemson tape and he was always the first guy off the snap. havent seem him jump off the screen like that in the pros

That maybe had something to do with Guenther wanting him to play this way.  Just like watching Crosby crashing down the line or attacking the QB so he did a poor job of setting the edge.  Either that or Guenther just let the guys do what they wanted so we never had a cohesive unit.

[Darbsk]

14 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

 

Interesting breakdown. I remember there was a lot, an awful lot of talk about the CBs on our draft thread last year and it was great but one thing I criticised Arnette for was not having a feel for zones and not breaking on the receiver when he's in zone. He seemed really hesitant and unsure and that translated to the NFL when we asked him to do that. I thought he was a good press man corner who had sticky coverage, nimble but of course, there were other corners who were much better suited for how we actually played him (surprise, surprise). It's infuriating really. I think Arnette can be a good corner if we play him to his strengths but we should have picked someone else if we wanted to play off and soft.

[Turnobili]

12 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

That maybe had something to do with Guenther wanting him to play this way.  Just like watching Crosby crashing down the line or attacking the QB so he did a poor job of setting the edge.  Either that or Guenther just let the guys do what they wanted so we never had a cohesive unit.

can't fathom how "get off the line slower" is ever a coaching decision

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, Turnobili said:

can't fathom how "get off the line slower" is ever a coaching decision

His responsibility was to set the edge rather than just get after the QB.  They wanted him to bulk up to accomplish that and that could have also taken away some of the explosiveness he had.  Some guys can add size and strength without losing speed and some guys can not.  Ferrell is not a good athlete so the size took more from him than it would have for others.  Maybe he was just thinking to much instead of just playing.  Could be a lot of things but coaching and body transformation tend to be the causes I would look at.

[drfrey13]

On 6/9/2021 at 6:58 AM, SimonGruber said:

If I recall correctly management drafted with him without some or most agility drills. Either way hope coaches can squeeze out a good year from him

He did a few drills but choose not to run.  I would like to know his ten yard split.  Here is the combine workout for him.  He has heavy feet.  He would have ran a bad 40 and was probably told to skip it.  He did the drills after everyone ran so it was not an injury.  Should have been a huge red flag.  If you watch his games he is not explosive on the field either.  Lawrence would have been a better choice at 4.

Clemson defensive end Clelin Ferrell's 2019 NFL Scouting Combine workout