vikingsrule Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: Didn't limp in during the 2015 or 2017 seasons, though. Didn’t really matter in the end. Choked in 2015 and 2017 was a disaster after a fantastic regular season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torchezim Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, SteelKing728 said: Didn't limp in during the 2015 or 2017 seasons, though. Took a miracle in 2017, and since we could only score field goals in 2015, it came down to a last second FG. In typical Vikings fashion, we miss it. I’m not sure why everyone was surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 The entire conversation around Zimmer right now really seems to be under playing two key points. *It takes time for a first time head coach to build a championship team. *The Vikings have been playing with a short deck at quarterback for his entire tenure. If Vikings fans want to move on to Stefenski then they also need to understand that they're advocating for a much more dedicated rebuild for the team. Which is a position i can empathise with but, ultimately, I believe it's the wrong choice given the information we have right now. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozizaki Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 13 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: Here's a question for you guys. Assuming we do end up keeping Zimmer, but Stefanski ends up leaving, who do we go with for our OC next year? Would they try to talk Gary Kubiak into stepping up, or do they let Kubiak go and give Pat Shurmur a call? Which of these two would you prefer? Or would you want someone else brought in? I truly believe Kubiak likes his role right now. My ideal situation is keeping Stefanski, he is improving as a play caller and learning a lot from Kubiak. Shurmur's scheme isn't vastly different than what Kubiak/Stefanski have been running, and if he is okay with a power dynamic of him and Kubiak I would bring him back. Otherwise we may need to promote Klint or look elsewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozizaki Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 13 hours ago, SemperFeist said: That word “intent” just sticks out like a sore thumb in a statement like this. If they really do intend on having Zimmer and Spielman back, why not just say it? Why not just say that they’ll be back in 2020 and beyond? IMO, the statement from the Wilfs just adds fuel to the speculation that Zimmer will be out if he doesn’t have this team performing well on Sunday. I agree, I think the Wilfs want this team to either win or look like the Seahawks did in 2012, where this is a team that is building towards championship caliber, but still a year away. I'm all for keeping Zim, unless the team no shows tomorrow. Because if they don't at least show that they can go toe-to-toe with a contender with 2 weeks to get ready then that shows the coaching is subpar. A complete dirth of offense has been a motif of Zimmer's tenure (2014 vs New England, @ New Orleans and vs Detroit, 2015 @ 49ers, vs Packers and vs Seattle, 2016 @ Philadelphia and vs Indianapolis, 2017 @ Pittsburgh and of course the NFCCG @ Philadelphia, 2018 vs Bills and @ Seattle, 2019 @ Bears and @ Packers), if they can't show up in a another playoff game then this is clearly a coaching issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Torchezim said: Took a miracle in 2017, and since we could only score field goals in 2015, it came down to a last second FG. In typical Vikings fashion, we miss it. I’m not sure why everyone was surprised. Still didn't limp in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I was listening to the Football Machine podcast yesterday and a caller made a really good point about the OC position here with Zimmer. Essentially he argued that it's a very desirable position given the amount of control the OC is given, the level of talent on offense, and the fact that it has helped two former coordinators land head coaching gigs (assuming Stefenski does so). The caller pointed things a little purple but overall I think he's right and its quite possible that we should worry a little less about losing Stefenski because talented OCs will consistently want to be a part of this organization. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torchezim Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: Still didn't limp in. I don't know what your point is? That you don't agree that we limped in during those years, or are you disagreeing that sticking with Zimmer and Spielman is a mistake? If your "point" is that you don't think we limped in, then that was hardly the point of my post. Edited January 4, 2020 by Torchezim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Torchezim said: I don't know what your point is? That you don't agree that we limped in during those years, or are you disagreeing that sticking with Zimmer and Spielman is a mistake. If your "point" is that you don't think we limped in, then that was hardly the point of my post. We didn't limp in. We limped out, if anything. Zim and Spiel are fine. You can't win the big dance every year. They give us a decent-good shot to at least make it. You're not getting much better than that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dolmonite26 said: I was listening to the Football Machine podcast yesterday and a caller made a really good point about the OC position here with Zimmer. Essentially he argued that it's a very desirable position given the amount of control the OC is given, the level of talent on offense, and the fact that it has helped two former coordinators land head coaching gigs (assuming Stefenski does so). The caller pointed things a little purple but overall I think he's right and its quite possible that we should worry a little less about losing Stefenski because talented OCs will consistently want to be a part of this organization. You're right about Stefanski. He seems to be doing a nice job, but if he moves onto a head coaching gig, congratulations to him. Zim will find another OC. How many times has Bill Belichick had to replace coordinators? You have to keep from being pigeonholed into one scheme or style of football and be willing to adapt to changing conditions. Belichick has done that successfully for a long time. Then again, having the greatest QB of all time hasn't hurt. This is an area where Coach Zimmer is being underrated. He has changed OCs AND QBs almost every year since he has been here, yet he has still been in the playoffs half of the time. Keep giving Zim chances and he will get us up the hill to the promised land. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dolmonite26 said: The entire conversation around Zimmer right now really seems to be under playing two key points. *It takes time for a first time head coach to build a championship team. *The Vikings have been playing with a short deck at quarterback for his entire tenure. If Vikings fans want to move on to Stefenski then they also need to understand that they're advocating for a much more dedicated rebuild for the team. Which is a position i can empathise with but, ultimately, I believe it's the wrong choice given the information we have right now. The Vikes haven’t been playing with a short deck at QB, that’s the problem. Spent a first on Teddy, spent a first on Bradford, and gave Cousins a rich contract. Even Keenum played well enough for them. We’ve spent the resources with little return. Is that a FO issue or coaching issue? Zimmer has had six years and the team hasn’t produced in the post season. If we’re content being a strong regular season team and beating the teams we should, Zimmer is the right guy. If we want a coach who can get his team to play well in bigger games, win games we shouldn’t, and put together a deep post season run, all signs point to him being the wrong guy. Edited January 4, 2020 by vikingsrule 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I guess from where I'm sitting, it's undeniably clear that Zimmer is talent coach who has created a resume that speaks for itself. I was previously concerned about his age and whether it made sense to move forward with him if the team needed to reconstruct itself a little bit. However after a little digging I think another 4-6 years from Zimmer is perfectly reasonable. Which eases my concern a lot with being able to endure a reload period for the roster that overlaps with Zimmers peak coaching years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: The Vikes haven’t been playing with a short deck at QB, that’s the problem. Spent a first on Teddy, spent a first on Bradford, and gave Cousins a rich contract. Even Keenum played well enough for them. We’ve spent the resources with little return. Is that a FO issue or coaching issue? Zimmer has had six years and the team hasn’t produced in the post season. If we’re content being a strong regular season team and beating the teams we should, Zimmer is the right guy. If we want a coach who can get his team to play well in bigger games, win games we shouldn’t, and put together a deep post season run, all signs point to him being the wrong guy. I wasn't speaking on investment of resources in the QB position, but strictly the talent and I don't think it's even debatable that the team hasn't had a top 10 talent at the position during his tenure. This is largely the fault of poor luck and some questionable FO moves. From a coaching perspective Zim has maximized the talent of his QB 3, possibly 4 out of 6 years (post Turner 2016, 2017, and 2019. W/ 2015 being a debatable year that i think is a no). And in each of those years the bottom fell out at the QB position in critical games. You can argue that points to poor coaching and I'd say that the inferior talent was exposed because you were playing good teams. Ultimately i think the arguments for Zimmer being a medicore coach rely too much on postseason record which leans too much into the "clutch" mythology in sports. When the truth is, the team lost to good teams those years (astrick for 2015 as far as I'm concerned), it sucks but it's also a mathematically predictable outcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torchezim Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, SteelKing728 said: We didn't limp in. We limped out, if anything. Zim and Spiel are fine. You can't win the big dance every year. They give us a decent-good shot to at least make it. You're not getting much better than that. That is a terrible attitude and untrue. Many coaches would give you a “decent shot”. If that’s all you want, then you epitomize what’s wrong, and has been wrong with our fanbase for decades. Not going to get much better than that - An absolutely awful and false outlook. Edited January 4, 2020 by Torchezim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perrynoid Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 The way I see it, we are only a few players away from being an elite team, LG and 3-tech being the most obvious positions in need of upgrades. Many commentators have noted that our roster is very talented, we don't even need to get dominant players as upgrades, just above average. This also depends on how many of our upcoming crop of free agents we retain, as well. It would really suck to be this close (talent-wise), only to have new holes open in the roster (most likely at DB since we have a plethora of free agents there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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