lancerman Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Gronk does every single thing better than Tony. Tony played longer. This is like saying Emmitt Smith is better than Barry Sanders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 On 3/27/2019 at 6:14 AM, BleedTheClock said: Yup. You can't be wrong in this debate. I think Tony G had a more productive and long career, but Gronk was the most difficult TE of all time to defend. I'd much rather see Tony G across from me than Gronk, but man Tony G was so good for so long with a lot less around him. Saying "I'd rather see Gonzalez across from me" needs to be read not as a slam on Gonzo but a rabid endorsement of Gronk, because I think in most cases any LB/DB with Gonzo across from him was going "ohhhh fuuuudge" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 4 hours ago, lancerman said: Gronk does every single thing better than Tony. Tony played longer. This is like saying Emmitt Smith is better than Barry Sanders To be fair I don't actually think the length of playing time is the bigger concern. If Gronk just played a full 9 season career he'd probably have it in most people's eyes. It's really the durability that hurts him more than the longevity. Sanders actually had more pro-bowl seasons and more all-pro seasons than Smith, he just didn't play long enough to get the career records. That's not what Gronk's career was. Gronk's was an elite career mired by availability issues. Had Gronk been healthy, but stopped early (like Sanders), he still would've topped 10k yards and 100 TDs and the career production gap wouldn't be nearly enough to bridge the gap in peak play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 9 hours ago, kingseanjohn said: Tony also had Elvis Grbac and a non-starting Rich Gannon with Marty Ball. Gronk had Brady in a much more pass friendly offense and league. He also rode the bench in 97. The 97 Chiefs had a good enough offense but Gonzalez didn't start. 1998 he became a starter but the offense regressed heavily as well. The Chiefs those two years had fewer passing TDs than the Pats did in just Gronk's rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobikus Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: To be fair I don't actually think the length of playing time is the bigger concern. If Gronk just played a full 9 season career he'd probably have it in most people's eyes. It's really the durability that hurts him more than the longevity. Sanders actually had more pro-bowl seasons and more all-pro seasons than Smith, he just didn't play long enough to get the career records. That's not what Gronk's career was. Gronk's was an elite career mired by availability issues. Had Gronk been healthy, but stopped early (like Sanders), he still would've topped 10k yards and 100 TDs and the career production gap wouldn't be nearly enough to bridge the gap in peak play. It would be pretty close for me if he didn't miss much time during those years, yeah. I think Gronk slightly edges out Gonzo on the field, but I'd much rather have 16 games of Gonzo over 13 games of Gronk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Gronk because he’s a better player. All the stats and eye test bear it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Funny how people act like Tony Gonzales wasn't dominant in his own right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 On 3/31/2019 at 1:52 PM, MSURacerDT55 said: Funny how people act like Tony Gonzales wasn't dominant in his own right So much this, it's pretty clear we have some youngins responding here that never saw peak Tony G play. My goodness he and Gates are the reason we have Flex TEs like we do now. Gronk played with one of the best QBs of all time, coached by the greatest HC of all time, in the most pass happy offense the NFL has ever seen. Tony was a Martyball KC Chief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 11 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: So much this, it's pretty clear we have some youngins responding here that never saw peak Tony G play. My goodness he and Gates are the reason we have Flex TEs like we do now. Gronk played with one of the best QBs of all time, coached by the greatest HC of all time, in the most pass happy offense the NFL has ever seen. Tony was a Martyball KC Chief Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 On 3/31/2019 at 12:52 PM, MSURacerDT55 said: Funny how people act like Tony Gonzales wasn't dominant in his own right He wasn’t as dominant as Gronk. Gronk legit has an argument for being the best skill position player of his era. Quite frankly he has an argument for being the best outright player of the 2010’s. I would say Watt was probably the one guy you’d argue ahead of him, but Watt was derailed even more by injury and his peak was shorter. You can say a lot of great things about Gonzalez, but you can’t say anything like that. Even at his best, there were years where Gates or Witten we’re better. When Gronk played, everyone knew he was the best. And again for their position, receiving isn’t the only function of it. Gonzalez was not a fraction of the blocker Gronk was. Gronk was somebody that they would legit use in games as an extra blocker just to beef up the line when they felt it was necessary. It is inconceivable to think any of Tony’s teams would have gsmeplanned him like that. Nobody who watched him actually would think that. He doesn’t even think that. There are very few players who are as complete packaged at their positions and are just freakish enough athletes to do what Gronk did. These are the only arguments Tony has over Gronk. 1. He played longer. 2. He played with worse QB’s The former doesn’t make him a better player, the lattter comes off as an excuse and dismisses that he didn’t get better if the quality of the QB improved, aka its unquantifiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 I got Gonzalez. I think you are all overrating Gronks blocking ability. He is a good blocker. A really good one. But he isn't elite in that aspect as many of you have been saying. Atleast in Patriots games I've watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 4 hours ago, marshawn lynch said: I got Gonzalez. I think you are all overrating Gronks blocking ability. He is a good blocker. A really good one. But he isn't elite in that aspect as many of you have been saying. Atleast in Patriots games I've watched. For a TE, he was definitely elite. If you're comparing him to a tackle, then no. Well, better than our swing tackle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 54 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said: For a TE, he was definitely elite. If you're comparing him to a tackle, then no. Well, better than our swing tackle... Well I know TEs in the NFL who are terrible receivers but elite blockers. A guy like Lee Smith. Gronk just isn't elite like elite blocking TEs like Smith. The elite blocking TEs just don't get recognition. Gronk is a great blocker but isn't elite for a TE. However he may be the best blocker of receiving TEs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 22 hours ago, marshawn lynch said: Well I know TEs in the NFL who are terrible receivers but elite blockers. A guy like Lee Smith. Gronk just isn't elite like elite blocking TEs like Smith. The elite blocking TEs just don't get recognition. Gronk is a great blocker but isn't elite for a TE. However he may be the best blocker of receiving TEs Yep, and I think he's as good as blocking as specialist blocking TEs. He opened up so many lanes for our RBs last season, season before they had him with Watt a couple of times. I remember him pancaking Malik Jackson. For what it's worth, an AFC offensive coordinator, according to SI, told them he thought Gronkowski was as good a blocker as most NFL right tackles. Also, for what it's worth, Pff says "in 7 of his 9 season, he gave up just 25 total pressures from 593 pass-blocking snaps. However, as impressive as that was, it was his effect in the running game that really cemented him as one of the premier blocking tight ends of his generation, as he recorded run-blocking grades of 65.0 in eight of his professional seasons, while he recorded run-blocking grades of 80.0 or more in four of those seasons. He’ll step into the sunset with a career pass-blocking grade of 72.6, and a career run-blocking grade of 88.7." - for reference, James O'Shaunessy (used to block often) is at 78. Maybe they make em tough in Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nex_Gen Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 On 4/7/2019 at 10:25 AM, marshawn lynch said: I got Gonzalez. I think you are all overrating Gronks blocking ability. He is a good blocker. A really good one. But he isn't elite in that aspect as many of you have been saying. Atleast in Patriots games I've watched. Specifically gonna point this out. Gronk's blocking ability is equivalent to a pro bowl Guard. You never watched him block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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