naptownskinsfan Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 13 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: I’m not ashamed in the least to say I loved The Last Jedi. Novel idea, someone should start a new thread to say what they either loved about the film or hated about it. Hot dang I’m living on the leading edge. Blazing that undiscovered trail. Certainly this couldn’t have been discussed before. The movie on it's own is decent, but it just takes a giant dump on the plot from the first one, rendering it irrelevant. I also felt that the pacing of this as a trilogy was weird. It felt like it was "DLC" for The Force Awakens. It didn't feel like a standalone movie. In the previous two trilogies in Star Wars, time passes between the movies. Not the case here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: Also the other main problem with these movies from the hardcore fans is that Rey is a Mary Sue, not that she is a woman. Folks were behind Leia and Padme as a lead character just fine. The detractors point to The Force Unleashed and Galen Marek being a "Gary Stu" which is not true. Vader found Starkiller on Kashyyk and his Force presence as a small child overshadowed his father, who was a full-fledged Jedi Knight. Vader trained him as an assassin (similar to how Sidious trained Maul) and sent him out to do his bidding. Once found out, Starkiller is defeated rather easily by Frank, rescued in secret by Vader and sent out to tie together the Rebels so they can be in one spot and defeat them. As it turns out, Galen gained a conscience thanks to influence from his companion Juno Eclipse and his partnership with Rahm Kota and Bail Organa. He even redeems fallen Jedi Maris Brood. To rescue the Rebels after another betrayal by Vader, he tracks them to the Death Star, defeats Vader and fights The Senate. Marek overpowers Frank and has him defeated, but loops his Force Lightning attack back around and sacrifices himself to allow the Rebels time to escape. What's key here is his fight with Sheev, and that I believe that he wasn't at full power like his duel with Mace Windu. He was trying to turn Starkiller, not kill him, and I imagine that Starkiller would've been dead outright if Frank really wanted that. But he saw a chance to replace Vader with a "whole" apprentice, just like he saw later with Luke Skywalker and he took it easy on him to try and sway him back to the Dark Side. So Starkiller, like Luke Skywalker, had a journey as a Force user. Unlike Rey, who discovers she has Force Powers and immediately is able to mindtrick a stormtrooper, fight off a mind probe from an experienced Force User and then defeats that same person in lightsaber combat without any formal training whatsoever. Even Obi-Wan Kenobi has an arc from Padawan to Jedi Knight, to High Council Master. Even Anakin Skywalker as the Chosen One didn't have his Force powers immediately unlocked at full potential. He lost his hand in a duel with Count Dooku. But yet Rey dispatches Kylo Ren with ease. It goes against the entire Star Wars universe, canon and EU alike. She has a freaking arc dude. She discovers inner strength as an independent woman that leads to UNLIMITED POWER and friendship! Its such a unique concept thats been discovered the last few years. It's mind boggling nothing like this has ever been attempted before. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Selene still needed Michael to weaken and distract Victor.......at least that's my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 24 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: Selene still needed Michael to weaken and distract Victor.......at least that's my opinion. My opinion is that they were both distracted by her in all that leather. Hmmph 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrILL! Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Calvert28 said: Its like we're stuck in Ground Hog's Day, on a Football Forum. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 There was one Mary Sue in the Star Wars universe before Rey though, and that was Kyle Katarn's story in Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight. He discovers he is a Jedi, and proceeds to defeat seven trained Dark Jedi, including two former Jedi Knights and a Jedi Master who survived Order 66 and turned to the Dark Side during the purge. Some argue Katarn did it with the mentorship of the Force Ghost of Qu Rahn and he was able to draw on the power of the Valley of the Jedi, and while that is true, Jerec was also twisting that same power to his will as a Dark Side user, with infinitely more experience. They corrected this with his portrayal in Mysteries of the Sith as well as Jedi Knight II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Move was freaking awesome 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 17 hours ago, Calvert28 said: Lol no it didnt. Not anywhere close, most people didnt know really what to make of such a large scale movie not really having a beginning or a climax. It started off continuing the war and ended on a cliff hanger. But there was not backlash like there was for TLJ. Some people didnt like it because of that but for most it was such a new concept for a movie of it's kind and with blockbusters being relatively new meaning the masses had access to cinema it took time for the story of ESB to really sink in. Most of America at that time was just starting to really get into making watching movies an American pastime. It was this that really made ESB so popular later on kinda like how cult classics may bomb at the box office but starts a large following. ESB was new and risky but it paid off. Johnson tried to pull off the same magic except the cliff hanger was not a new concept, neither was the main hero losing faith in the cause which was entirely cliche, infact most of the movie was done with old outdated cliche cinema that's been done countless times. It wasnt original, and it wasnt good. I'm really trying hard to keep myself out of this, but this is a horrible take. You say it didn't get anywhere close to the level of criticism? That's false. The only reason it seems like TLJ received more is because the advancement of technology and social media, where everyone in their mother think that they have the resume to be a critic. If ESB was released today, based off of how people reacted back in 1980, you would've seen a similar reaction and I think you either know that or really have no clue of how bad the initial reaction actually was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 10 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said: The movie on it's own is decent, but it just takes a giant dump on the plot from the first one, rendering it irrelevant. I also felt that the pacing of this as a trilogy was weird. It felt like it was "DLC" for The Force Awakens. It didn't feel like a standalone movie. In the previous two trilogies in Star Wars, time passes between the movies. Not the case here. That's a good way to put it. I called it an episode in a TV season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fl0nkerton Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 lol so the people that "hated" TLJ are still riled up about it and talking about it in here and referencing RT as an indicator 😂 They can't wait to spend $15 seeing this and then getting on FF to whine more 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 11 minutes ago, Fl0nkerton said: lol so the people that "hated" TLJ are still riled up about it and talking about it in here and referencing RT as an indicator 😂 They can't wait to spend $15 seeing this and then getting on FF to whine more Forbes' review basically says they bend over backwards to appease all the big hitters that "hard-core-fans" complaints and it ruined the movie. How ironic if true lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fl0nkerton Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, Deadpulse said: Forbes' review basically says they bend over backwards to appease all the big hitters that "hard-core-fans" complaints and it ruined the movie. How ironic if true lol Quote It represents the cultural theft of Star Wars from today’s kids by today’s arrested-development-stricken adults. Star Wars was a franchise first and foremost for children, and the kids who grew up with Harry Potter, The Hunger Games and the MCU have embraced harsh truths and challenging narratives. Lucasfilm and Disney’s The Rise of Skywalker feels explicitly crafted for the “Rian Johnson ruined Star Wars!” and “George Lucas ruined my childhood!” demographics, right down to its near erasure of Kelly Marie Tran’s Rose Tico. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Quote right down to its near erasure of Kelly Marie Tran’s Rose Tico. Yes, because she was such a well developed and important character. Look, that woman was such a poor actress that it stood out in a freaking Star Wars movie, where the acting chops are nearly always below average. She just sucked. Sucked sucked sucked sucked sucked. If they wanted to check off the asian woman hipster box in their diversity bingo card they could have at least cast Charlyne Yi and make her a bit of comic relief. That woman actually has talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) No. I’m done. Edited December 19, 2019 by Outpost31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 3 hours ago, JonStark said: I'm really trying hard to keep myself out of this, but this is a horrible take. You say it didn't get anywhere close to the level of criticism? That's false. The only reason it seems like TLJ received more is because the advancement of technology and social media, where everyone in their mother think that they have the resume to be a critic. If ESB was released today, based off of how people reacted back in 1980, you would've seen a similar reaction and I think you either know that or really have no clue of how bad the initial reaction actually was. Lol let me guess Gizmo? Or was it Mashable that you read the article that fans hated it back then too? Star Wars despite being a critical success with A New Hope was not that well loved back then as it is today. It did not have the fan base nor the support to warrant such a backlash. It was still a very very new series and people were still being introduced to it in the early 80s. No what you read was more propaganda, I have no doubt that it received some bad reviews. But the majority was mixed with most unsure with how it was portrayed. Really got to stop read Disney paid articles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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