AlexGreen#20 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Donzo said: Dude, this is just a huge spin job. The fact that Gary pushed up field so far blew up the O-line set up for the stunt. The RT was setup up perfectly as a one on one block. And, Lowry (another you like spin some hate on) didn't loop outside. He shot the 7 gap which also setup the Bears OL for one on one blocking. You don't WANT the O-Lineman super far up field on a stunt. If he's too far upfield it's harder for your DT to set the screen and easier for the Guard to push your DT away where the screen should be set. Gary did everything right here, so did Lowry, but neither did anything remarkable. That's the point of a stunt, to make offensive lineman read movement in front of them in the hopes that they do it wrong. Handling stunts isn't easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Just making the point that 100 pressures over 34 games isn't some unfathomably great performance, especially when you consider the talent around him at Michigan. Good for him for getting those reps the second he stepped on campus, but this isn't a Bosa situation where dude was in the backfield on like every snap. There's a reason PFF doesn't love the dude, and their entire formula is based on per/snap production for pass rushers. I'm not going to bat for PFF here, but that's another symptom. You're just gonna keep doubling down on you Gary hate spin, so this futile. We don't want to waste our Saturday morning jumping down that rabbit whole. I am curious about how you'd explain Gary's game against Ohio State when he was 19. His production in that game doesn't fit your narrative (spin) about his production against top teams. ,, I'm sure Gary didn't really make those plays, they were just Ohio State mistakes/gifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packer_ESP Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 I fail to see where Alex is hating on Gary. He's explaining plays (one of the few posters here that actually talks football and takes time to post some substance) and just trying to temper the excitement about the little plays that is probably somewhat excessive because we all want Gary to succeed. I mean, like half the forum at least has already accepted that Gary will take a while to develop and we shouldn't expect much from him this year, I don't think Alex's stance is much more extreme than that. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: When I watch the clip, I don't see Gary pushing that far up field. I see a Bears OL that is totally gassed. Gary started off just inside the 15 yard line. Pushed up to inside the 19 yard line, the Bears RT (Massie) extended his arms to Gary committing to the one on one blocking, then Gary instantly looked inside... It was definitely a delayed stunt which takes a top athlete to pull off quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratt Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Gary wasted a couple steps there. He should have slow rushed at the OT, then instead of having to loop back and around, as soon as Lowry got in front of him, he could have slide stepped behind Lowry and been going straight for the QB. Whatever though, he was so damn fast going forward, he’s still showing some signs. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, boratt said: Gary wasted a couple steps there. He should have slow rushed at the OT, then instead of having to loop back and around, as soon as Lowry got in front of him, he could have slide stepped behind Lowry and been going straight for the QB. Whatever though, he was so damn fast going forward, he’s still showing some signs. I thought it was played well. With Lowry hitting the outside gap and Frack lingering at the LOS getting the centers attention, the play was definitely setup for Gary's inside stunt. But you're right, he's a pup, but crazy fast. Watching the end of the play, P. Smith would probably have gotten a sack if Gary didn't get through so quick. Trubisky threw the ball away when he saw Gary. If Gary didn't get through and Trubisky held the ball another half second, Smith would have crushed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share Posted September 7, 2019 Anytime someone wants to argue that a hit like that on a QB isn't a highlight is just arguing for the sake of it. Anybody who wants to act like Gary not seeing a lot of time in the first game of his career is some sort of warning sign is kidding themselves, too. Clay Matthews didn't start until the fourth game of the season while Kampman and Jones/Poppinga started in front of him. Gary didn't start with Preston and Z. Smith in front of him. It is not uncommon for talented pass rushers to not start the first game of the season. Some people think Gary is gonna bust. Others think that a 21-year-old player behind two significant free agent signing EDGE rushers is going to take some time to be what the Packers scouts and personnel department think will be a big part of the Packers team moving forward. At this point all you can do is decide which opinion you have. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 51 minutes ago, Donzo said: Gary started off just inside the 15 yard line. Pushed up to inside the 19 yard line, the Bears RT (Massie) extended his arms to Gary committing to the one on one blocking, then Gary instantly looked inside... It was definitely a delayed stunt which takes a top athlete to pull off quickly. I am actually very happy with Dean Lowry right there. He did the old Justin Smith in SF and took out two linemen for the rusher to get free. If he can manage to do that often, those pressures are going to turn into sacks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratt Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: I am actually very happy with Dean Lowry right there. He did the old Justin Smith in SF and took out two linemen for the rusher to get free. If he can manage to do that often, those pressures are going to turn into sacks. Absolutely. It was well designed and well executed from both Lowry and Gary. It’s also going to set up other rushes for Gary. They planted the stunt seed in the minds of OL. Now Gary can do a hesitation to straight bull rush that could catch a dude off guard. It speeds up his speed rush and everything else. He’s just starting show his toolbox and hopefully he had one or two more decent ones so they can play off each other and keep guys guessing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 27 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Anytime someone wants to argue that a hit like that on a QB isn't a highlight is just arguing for the sake of it. Anybody who wants to act like Gary not seeing a lot of time in the first game of his career is some sort of warning sign is kidding themselves, too. Clay Matthews didn't start until the fourth game of the season while Kampman and Jones/Poppinga started in front of him. Gary didn't start with Preston and Z. Smith in front of him. It is not uncommon for talented pass rushers to not start the first game of the season. Some people think Gary is gonna bust. Others think that a 21-year-old player behind two significant free agent signing EDGE rushers is going to take some time to be what the Packers scouts and personnel department think will be a big part of the Packers team moving forward. At this point all you can do is decide which opinion you have. I couldn't agree more with this statement, but think he's a very talented athlete who could turn into much more than just a pass rusher. He's got a lot of work ahead of himself, but he's making strides and yes, could become an outstanding pass rusher and a match up nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: I am actually very happy with Dean Lowry right there. He did the old Justin Smith in SF and took out two linemen for the rusher to get free. If he can manage to do that often, those pressures are going to turn into sacks. Maybe, but I contend Alex has a point. Massie makes a mistake by setting prematurely, and instead should have continued to drop. This was play 11 of a 13 play drive, and watching the way Preston Smith was able to walk past two linemen makes me believe they were gassed. Putting in Gary with fresh legs was a good move. That is the problem with not playing starters in preseason. The bigs on the OL don't get into game shape for the long drives. Don't get me wrong, it was a good play by the Packer D line. But Alex is right, the Bears played it badly. It can be both- Gary can show signs that he can play the scheme, and the Bear OL played badly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: You just watched the #12 pick in the draft play 6 total defensive snaps in an NFL game when one of our starters at his spot got exactly one snap off, and our #3 edge rusher got 23 snaps. And there's no "What-if?" thought? No, none at all. If he's getting those snaps by week 8 or next year, definitely concern. He's learning a lot and that is going to take time. He's got tremendous talent, but will he be able to tap into it and become a big time player? Time will tell but I'm cutting the kid some slack for now. Not a lot of rookies make major impact in year one. Including a lot of guys drafted in the top 10. He was #12 so time will tell, but to continually diminish the kid makes no sense to me. By the way, for the record. I almost puked when they announced his name at #12. I was not a big fan of his at U of M. Live in Michigan so I watched a lot of him. He's a Packer and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt at least through his rookie year. You do you and continue to only see the negative! Edited September 7, 2019 by Golfman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Just now, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Maybe, but I contend Alex has a point. Massie makes a mistake by setting prematurely, and instead should have continued to drop. This was play 11 of a 13 play drive, and watching the way Preston Smith was able to walk past two linemen makes me believe they were gassed. Putting in Gary with fresh legs was a good move. That is the problem with not playing starters in preseason. The bigs on the OL don't get into game shape for the long drives. Don't get me wrong, it was a good play by the Packer D line. But Alex is right, the Bears played it badly. It can be both- Gary can show signs that he can play the scheme, and the Bear OL played badly. I think Gary took a few extra steps. He also had to disengage with the RT, I don't know if the play is designed for him to actually be touched or feint to the outside to get the tackle to step into a normal pass blocking position. But it is a pressure on an important play in his first NFL game so I can't really knock him for that. We came into the season knowing that Gary was a project. This game does nothing to change that diagnosis. I actually don't understand what this whole argument is about, seems like a fight over whether the glass is half full or half empty. Dean Lowry made a good play there for sure though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: I think Gary took a few extra steps. He also had to disengage with the RT, I don't know if the play is designed for him to actually be touched or feint to the outside to get the tackle to step into a normal pass blocking position. But it is a pressure on an important play in his first NFL game so I can't really knock him for that. We came into the season knowing that Gary was a project. This game does nothing to change that diagnosis. I actually don't understand what this whole argument is about, seems like a fight over whether the glass is half full or half empty. Dean Lowry made a good play there for sure though. Oh, come on, it is obviously half empty, LOL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Donzo said: I don't know,. He had a 100 pressures, most of them as a teenager, at UM. That's a lot of discipline issues. Just out of curiosity, how many sacks did he have ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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