OTA's/Minicamp/Training Camp Discussion Thread

[y2lamanaki]

23 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Honestly, he does lose concentration at times but should be able to get better with time. I'm more interested in seeing the type of separation he can create and how big of a weapon he is after the catch. 

This is really the most important part- drops are forgivable if you have big play talent and make a lot of them. T.O. dropped a ton of passes in his career, but he more than made up for it with a ton of huge plays. 

Whether or not Hurd makes those is the question. And if he can put them out of mind when they eventually happen. 

[Chrissooner49er]

1 hour ago, y2lamanaki said:

This is really the most important part- drops are forgivable if you have big play talent and make a lot of them. T.O. dropped a ton of passes in his career, but he more than made up for it with a ton of huge plays. 

Whether or not Hurd makes those is the question. And if he can put them out of mind when they eventually happen. 

If only he could have tamed his ego...what a shame. I called him "Alligator Arms" due to all those dropped/or minimal effort made to catch passes. Dude could have been much more than he was but his ego got in the way.

Hoping Hurd makes the effort to improve.

[J-ALL-DAY]

24 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

If only he could have tamed his ego...what a shame. I called him "Alligator Arms" due to all those dropped/or minimal effort made to catch passes. Dude could have been much more than he was but his ego got in the way.

Hoping Hurd makes the effort to improve.

Disagree, in terms of actual play and longevity, dude played up to his potential for sure. And there was no harder worker than him so it's not like you could say he could have been even a better player. A better teammate? Sure, but in terms of actual play? The last thing anyone would say is he didn't live up to his potential. This was a third rounder that ended up being arguably the 3rd best WR of all time. 

[Chrissooner49er]

1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Disagree, in terms of actual play and longevity, dude played up to his potential for sure. And there was no harder worker than him so it's not like you could say he could have been even a better player. A better teammate? Sure, but in terms of actual play? The last thing anyone would say is he didn't live up to his potential. This was a third rounder that ended up being arguably the 3rd best WR of all time. 

Really?! You honestly think he made effort on every play? If so, you and I didn't watch the same TO. If he knew the ball wasn't coming his way, he often got lazy in his routes. He NEVER laid out for any pass that was slightly overthrown. 

I love how people make him out to be the hero of the Catch II when he made so many drops earlier in the game. No, this guy was not a maximum effort every play in every game kind of guy.TO was all about TO. A terrible teammate and not the WR he could have been. He was good...when he wanted to be.

[J-ALL-DAY]

5 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Really?! You honestly think he made effort on every play? If so, you and I didn't watch the same TO. If he knew the ball wasn't coming his way, he often got lazy in his routes. He NEVER laid out for any pass that was slightly overthrown. 

I love how people make him out to be the hero of the Catch II when he made so many drops earlier in the game. No, this guy was not a maximum effort every play in every game kind of guy.TO was all about TO. A terrible teammate and not the WR he could have been. He was good...when he wanted to be.

Let me put it to you this way, no one will think of TO being an underachiever. No one will say he didn't play or practice hard. You by all means can attack the type of teammate he was, but in terms of on the actual field? Dude brought it. Seems like you are seeing what you want to see here. No one is saying all his routes were perfect or he didn't drop some passes. But when the debate of TO vs Moss was going on, the argument FOR Owens was always he played much harder and practiced much harder than Moss. 

[Forge]

4 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Let me put it to you this way, no one will think of TO being an underachiever. No one will say he didn't play or practice hard. You by all means can attack the type of teammate he was, but in terms of on the actual field? Dude brought it. Seems like you are seeing what you want to see here. No one is saying all his routes were perfect or he didn't drop some passes. But when the debate of TO vs Moss was going on, the argument FOR Owens was always he played much harder and practiced much harder than Moss. 

He also was a very willing blocker for his teammates on the field. He went after it even when he knew the ball wasn't coming. On the field, he was a great teammate. Off the field can obviously be debated

[Chrissooner49er]

8 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Let me put it to you this way, no one will think of TO being an underachiever. No one will say he didn't play or practice hard. You by all means can attack the type of teammate he was, but in terms of on the actual field? Dude brought it. Seems like you are seeing what you want to see here. No one is saying all his routes were perfect or he didn't drop some passes. But when the debate of TO vs Moss was going on, the argument FOR Owens was always he played much harder and practiced much harder than Moss. 

 

4 minutes ago, Forge said:

He also was a very willing blocker for his teammates on the field. He went after it even when he knew the ball wasn't coming. On the field, he was a great teammate. Off the field can obviously be debated

Sooooo? You guys never saw the "Alligator arms" that TO had?! Everyone I know saw the same thing. Wow. And you say I am seeing what I want to see...pot, meet kettle! 

[Forge]

Just now, Chrissooner49er said:

 

Sooooo? You guys never saw the "Alligator arms" that TO had?! Everyone I know saw the same thing. Wow. And you say I am seeing what I want to see...pot, meet kettle! 

Alligator arms does not equal "bad teammate" or someone who doesn't try hard. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, Forge said:

Alligator arms does not equal "bad teammate" or someone who doesn't try hard. 

And this man more than made his fair share of catches in traffic so I'm not sure if that is what you want to knock him for lol. 

[Chrissooner49er]

 

 

5 minutes ago, Forge said:

Alligator arms does not equal "bad teammate" or someone who doesn't try hard. 

 

4 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

And this man more than made his fair share of catches in traffic so I'm not sure if that is what you want to knock him for lol. 

Well, your definition of "alligator arms" is different from mine, because that is exactly what I see and think is someone not trying hard.

You mean like "The Catch II" where he had hardly caught much at all until the end? smh

[Forge]

1 hour ago, Chrissooner49er said:

 

 

 

Well, your definition of "alligator arms" is different from mine, because that is exactly what I see and think is someone not trying hard.

You mean like "The Catch II" where he had hardly caught much at all until the end? smh

Bad game. Yep, terrible teammate. That's some horrific logic. 

Steve Young must have been an awful teammate. He was 11-23 for less than 100 yards and 2 interceptions in that 1994 game against the Eagles. Let's also remember that Montana did not have a great game in the Cowboys match up prior to the catch. Yet he is still lauded as a "hero" for that game along with Clark, much the same as TO as lauded as "hero" for that catch. It's okay that they didn't have great games prior to that. It doesn't take away from Owens' catch at the end of the game, nor does Montana's bad game take away from his final drive and throw to Clark. 

[Forge]

6 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

And this man more than made his fair share of catches in traffic so I'm not sure if that is what you want to knock him for lol. 

Precisely. He was never the most natural hands catcher...alligator arming something can be for a myriad of reasons, including the fact that he simply wasn't a natural hands catcher. VD alligator armed some passes after that Kam hit, must be an awful teammate as well. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

57 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

 

 

 

Well, your definition of "alligator arms" is different from mine, because that is exactly what I see and think is someone not trying hard.

You mean like "The Catch II" where he had hardly caught much at all until the end? smh

So he had a bad game and made the biggest play of the game? Why exactly is that a bad thing? Do you think he was dropping passes because he wasn't playing hard? And LIS, TO made a living in the middle of the field and made his fair share of plays in traffic. So tell me, if you think he underachieved, how good should he have been considering most have him as the 3rd best WR of all time? Are you talking GOAT status? Should he have had 200 TDs instead of 150+? 

[oldman9er]

Despite some unfortunate flaws, T.O. was one of the best, most dangerous WRs to play the game. 

 

Why can't that just be enough?  

[Ftn49]

14 hours ago, oldman9er said:

Despite some unfortunate flaws, T.O. was one of the best, most dangerous WRs to play the game. 

 

Why can't that just be enough?  

Football is one of the sports where the entire team drives success much more than a single individual for the most part and some of those unfortunate flaws led to some very negative opinions for good reason imo. I'm not going to weigh in on the alligator arms portion of the conversation because my memory isn't good enough to remember. I do remember a phone conversation with a buddy of mine who is a Denver fan while TO was still with the niners where I called him the best receiver in the NFL prior to it being a common description. I also remember alot of his antics after leaving the niners including making inflammatory derogatory remarks about Jeff Garcia and also wearing the star.

In short he was a guy that elicits passions both good and bad. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Ftn49