Donzo Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Just now, Cheesehawk said: I'd rate that as a guy that was playing hurt with a bunch of crap around him. It was pretty easy to stop our defense when the only guy worth a damn at getting to the QB including EDGE guys was MD. To say he is an average level backup is ludicrous is being generous. He is closer to still being a top 10 3-4 DE than a damn average back up. Horrendous take. Well, no... You minimized, deflected and kinda made some stuff up... Clark & Frack were good last year and Mathews had his moments. Daniels was invisible the last nine games unless Pettine schemed him open... When did he play hurt? He hurt his foot against the Seahawks, then he was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: an arbitrarily spliced sample What? The last 90% of his season is "arbitrary" and "spliced" ?!?... Wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Donzo said: Well, no... You minimized, deflected and kinda made some stuff up... Clark & Frack were good last year and Mathews had his moments. Daniels was invisible the last nine games unless Pettine schemed him open... When did he play hurt? He hurt his foot against the Seahawks, then he was done. Strongly disagree. PFF had him at 32 pressures on the season when he went down, which was second on the team. That's 3.2 pressures a game, which I'll go out on a limb here and say would be useful to have in 2019. He regularly won 1v1, and he was killing the Seahawks in particular until his foot injury. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 hour ago, skibrett15 said: stop talking about the cap hit in your posts if it's supposedly immaterial to your argument. daniels is being paid like a high performing DL this year. And multiple teams were willing to pay him it. It's very possible the packers cut daniels knowing he would have helped the team in 2019 but made a cap decision. The defense could also get better in 2019, even get better on the DL, and Daniels still would have unquestionably helped. On a side note, GB has the 2nd lowest cap hit among all teams at the DL position at about 14.5 million. The cap is completely material to my points. I've stated it like 5 times now. I don't feel like repeating it. You don't know multiple teams were willing to pay it. You know one team was willing to pay less than he was scheduled to make here. The argument that "he would have helped" is obviously true, but obviously vapid. If we could have 2,000 guys on our roster it would help. But we're limited on roster spots, and you need to maximize the value. My stance always has been, and continues to be, that it doesn't make sense ever to keep known bad value on your roster. Regardless of whether you're in "win now" mode (whatever that means). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 hour ago, GHARMON9 said: This Packers forum generally thought he was a top 10 DT going into 2018. He was voted our 13th best player 2 months ago... by this forum.. but now hes back up caliber... But whatever fits the current narrative. This is why I hardly post here. You guys should talk to other team's fans. We aren't as objective and good as we think we are. 6-9-1... Heading out of 2017 he was MUCH better than heading into 2019. Two years changes things. See: Peyton Manning in 2013 and then in 2015. Moreover, I don't know what the forum thought 2 months ago. Two months ago I felt exactly the same way I do now. The narrative hasn't changed. You're attributing group behavior to an individual that never partook in it. That's nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Just now, incognito_man said: The cap is completely material to my points. I've stated it like 5 times now. I don't feel like repeating it. You don't know multiple teams were willing to pay it. You know one team was willing to pay less than he was scheduled to make here. The argument that "he would have helped" is obviously true, but obviously vapid. If we could have 2,000 guys on our roster it would help. But we're limited on roster spots, and you need to maximize the value. My stance always has been, and continues to be, that it doesn't make sense ever to keep known bad value on your roster. Regardless of whether you're in "win now" mode (whatever that means). I'm fine with all of this in a vacuum, but I think the trouble is it's not actually that easy to define bad value. Daniels isn't a $10 million APY 3T in this defense, but if the Packers don't have anyone else to play the position he may very well be valued at $10 million. If your choices are an overpaid guy who can still sorta get it done or pure trash for cheap, I'll take the expensive guy unless I have something immediately pressing to use the money on. Now, that's not exactly the case here; the Packers have better than trash standing by and given Pettine's style he probably wouldn't have gotten $10 million in value out of Daniels either. My point is just that a guy can not play up to his contract but still be worth his spot on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 58 minutes ago, Cheesehawk said: I've seen a lot of dumb **** posted on this forum, this may take the cake as one of the most horrendous takes of em all. You're right, all of our players are above average lol Go look at his PFF score for a snapshot of how he compared to his peers last year. He's a situational player, and ranked as such. i.e. a "back-up" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, MrBobGray said: I'm fine with all of this in a vacuum, but I think the trouble is it's not actually that easy to define bad value. Daniels isn't a $10 million APY 3T in this defense, but if the Packers don't have anyone else to play the position he may very well be valued at $10 million. If your choices are an overpaid guy who can still sorta get it done or pure trash for cheap, I'll take the expensive guy unless I have something immediately pressing to use the money on. Now, that's not exactly the case here; the Packers have better than trash standing by and given Pettine's style he probably wouldn't have gotten $10 million in value out of Daniels either. My point is just that a guy can not play up to his contract but still be worth his spot on the team. that's why i specified value and not price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, MrBobGray said: Strongly disagree. PFF had him at 32 pressures on the season when he went down, which was second on the team. That's 3.2 pressures a game, which I'll go out on a limb here and say would be useful to have in 2019. He regularly won 1v1, and he was killing the Seahawks in particular until his foot injury. That's good info, but I didn't see that last year?!?... The only notes I had on him was 2 sacks, 1 TFL & 5 QB hits for the year. For the Seahawk game, I don't think he registered a stat that game... I remember Frack destroying Duane Brown in the Seahawk game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, incognito_man said: that's why i specified value and not price. Fair enough, just pointing it out because it's easy to lose that when people mix cap talk and value talk interchangeably. I'd agree that Daniels's value to the team was probably not $10 million. 1 minute ago, Donzo said: That's good info, but I didn't see that last year?!?... The only notes I had on him was 2 sacks, 1 TFL & 5 QB hits for the year. For the Seahawk game, I don't think he registered a stat that game... I remember Frack destroying Duane Brown in the Seahawk game. The problem as an inside rusher is you don't register a lot of stats that require you to hit the QB. The QB can feel the inside rush coming unless they have no pocket presence at all, so there's a lot of scrambles out, especially if your OLBs aren't rushing contain. Daniels didn't convert his rushes at the rate he normally does, but he still has the hands and the leverage game to slip guards on the regular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratt Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) pettine will run 3-4 when he’s in traditional base. I imagine we’ll see more 3-3 nickel now that we have two longer, and fast-ish 5t types. Both young guys (Lowry/Adams) ran 4.87 coming out of college. When we do see two man lines, a lot of it is going to be in obvious pass situations (2-3 dime) and in that case, our 3t is likely to be zadarius/Gary much of the time. So we’re gonna replace a bunch of 3t snaps by having 3 man lines with two 5t instead of having so many 2 man lines with Daniels at 3t. It’s the natural solution when your current roster is longer, faster, more fit and better suited for 5t snaps. Edited August 2, 2019 by boratt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 2 hours ago, incognito_man said: You're right, all of our players are above average lol Go look at his PFF score for a snapshot of how he compared to his peers last year. He's a situational player, and ranked as such. i.e. a "back-up" Yet PFF said not to get rid of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 3 hours ago, incognito_man said: You're right, all of our players are above average lol Go look at his PFF score for a snapshot of how he compared to his peers last year. He's a situational player, and ranked as such. i.e. a "back-up" Backup is quite harsh, average starter yes, backup players in the NFL are not good as a whole. It's like the whole Hundley argument years ago, there's probably 30 QBs in the NFL capable of playing around .500 ball with a good team around them, probably 12-15 who can consistently win. Yet we killed TT for not having one behind Aaron. Daniels is still a starting caliber player, average one at this point, but an average backup would be quite overrating a teams 4-5th DL on a roster, you'd be hard pressed to find one that Daniels is worse than. He's sure as hell better than 2017 Lowry and Adams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Picked a random one. Against the Rams https://imgur.com/PND3xcB Clark is going to get the payoff here, but Daniels makes the play. https://imgur.com/DzqTyqS Clay is going to get this sack, but Daniels really makes it by blowing up the pocket and forcing the scramble. https://imgur.com/IiYbxom Really nice play in run defense. https://imgur.com/ROWhDBk Again, Clark is going to get setup for this. The plan is to isolate him against the RG. Martinez will line up in the A gap and then move to the other A gap to pull the Center and give Clark room to rush. Clark is going to beat his man and eventually apply some pressure, but Daniels pushes the pocket and moves Goff off his spot by pushing the LT deep into where the QB often is when throwing. https://imgur.com/GqEUAjU Everyone does their job here and does it very well. Clark is going to record the sack here, but it's Daniels who's going to pull the LT and the LG who was supposed to be aware of anything coming to his right. Clark beats the Center and really does show why he's the one getting his number called for this assignment, but to write Daniels off as finished because he's being asked to handle a different role is unfair. https://imgur.com/ZZNgYWa If you're trying to get pressure, don't be the middle rusher in the 3-man rush. That's a scenario that's often a pressure package look where he's just not getting a chance to do a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uffdaswede Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 7 hours ago, incognito_man said: Lol, I guarantee you won't find a quote from ANYONE saying Cobb was good last year. You're making stuff up. Maybe AFTER the year, but I got ripped before the season for just asking if injuries had robbed Cobb of enough of what made him special to make him a possible surprise cut. This Daniels thing is getting a little tedious. Look, we don’t know, but we can surmise the numerous pros and cons that went into the team’s decision. It’s doubtful the team thought he couldn’t play, but it’s likely they thought he was declining. Money cost, opportunity cost for younger players, whatever... If you say the team was dumb to cut him, you’re probably right. We’ll miss him If you say the team made a good call to cut him when they did, you’re probably right also. It’s not like money saved and opportunities for younger players aren’t real things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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