College Football and NFL Draft Discussion

[candyman93]

The NFL will make Cincinnati our week 1 opponent, guarantee it.

[hornbybrown]

Stupid Ryan Fitzpatrick single handedly stopped the Dolphins tank job and now the Bengals will get a stud QB

[BleedTheClock]

9 hours ago, candyman93 said:

Spread offenses have killed linebackers more than any position in football.

How so?

[BleedTheClock]

8 hours ago, brownie man said:

I’ve been saying he’s overrated 

he’s not that great passer they make him out to be 

he’s got a ton of pure talent but it’s definitely not all put together like he’s the next Peyton Manning 

He's certainly no Deshone Kizer.

8 hours ago, Mind Character said:

A lot to like with Simmons, but we can't take him at 10.

If we did, in fact, get Wade Phillips, he'd be even more intriguing because of his ability to play all over the place. He could legitimately play WILB, WOLB, SOLB, Sam in nickel packages, or even S in a 3-4 because of how often they roll down to replace the edge blitzers.

 

....but that'd be a luxury BPA pick more than likely.

Edited January 14, 2020 by BleedTheClock

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

He's certainly no Deshone Kizer.

This will never get old.

3 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

....but that'd be a luxury BPA pick more than likely.

Eh, a super versatile impact defender isn’t really a luxury, that’s a viable pick.

Do we need a T more?  Yes.  Do we NOT need a defender? Oh hell no.

[NateDawg]

I think we could go anyone of a number of ways when it came to what positions we target in the draft. At this stage, you have to say offensive tackle makes the most sense. However, it is still really early and free agency has not even hit yet. I think even if we sign one good, starting caliber tackle, there will still be a need there. That’s why it’s easy to project us taking one at pick 10. But if that need gets shored up a bit, I still think you have to stay close to the BPA model. If there is an impact guy at 10, we have needs all around. Go get him if you like him. I just pray that this regime does not see Grant Delpit as an impact player. He ain’t it. If they see Isaiah Simmons as a ball of clay that can be molded within our defense, go for it. In the perfect world, right now, the BPA is also an offensive tackle. What I would really like to see you obviously is for three quarterbacks to go in the top nine picks. Then you can assume that a couple receivers (maybe just one) are also likely to go, along with Jeffrey Okudah and Chase Young. 

Burrow, Tua, Jeudy, Chase, Okudah are all shoe-ins (assuming Tua’s health). Then you can probably take the consensus best OT off the board and hope Herbert goes also. There should be read some really good players to choose from. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

He who gets the banhammer (Kam) is really high on Becton too, sees him as a top 15 guy and potential option at 10.

Not saying it’ll happen, but if these tackles slide it sure would be nice to slide down a few spots and picks some draft capital while still getting a T.

[big poppa pump]

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

He who gets the banhammer (Kam) is really high on Becton too, sees him as a top 15 guy and potential option at 10.

Not saying it’ll happen, but if these tackles slide it sure would be nice to slide down a few spots and picks some draft capital while still getting a T.

I don't think that I would play around there (I know you wouldn't mind) the trade down that is

To me it's Thomas or Wirfs...Some ppl include Jedrick Wills in this group, and I wouldn't hate it.

I have seen Becton as a "riser" too.  I really don't wanna get cute.  I'm all in on one of those 2 Tackles, and I would highly consider Epenesa, and to some extent Simmons.

The thing that scares me about Simmons is where does he play?  You mentioned the positions that he COULD possibly play, but often times those guys need to have A position for a particular defense.

 

When we drafted Jabril, he came from that monster position (in the box safety) from Michigan.  He was completely out of position with us.  We drafted Corbett, who played Center, and then proceeded to try him at every position on the line.  Did not work out so well for us.

Edited January 14, 2020 by big poppa pump

[NateDawg]

 

 I can’t imagine him not entering the draft. Probably a top 10 pick but certainly in the top 15. 

[DawgX]

5 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

 

 I can’t imagine him not entering the draft. Probably a top 10 pick but certainly in the top 15. 

That'd be a blow for us if he doesn't declare. Means we're much less likely to get a top OT with our pick.

[MWil23]

6 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

 

 I can’t imagine him not entering the draft. Probably a top 10 pick but certainly in the top 15. 

It reminds me of a story that Joe Thomas told about his return for his senior year:

Joe Thomas's OL coach called him into his office with a nervous expression on his face, wanting clarification on him returning, assuring him that he was fine with whatever he decided. Joe Thomas said "why wouldn't I come back?!?!", and his coach had to pull up documents/scout analysis saying "Joe, did you realize that you're projected to be a top 5-10 pick this year?!?!?!" and JT didn't even realize it/pay attention to it.

[Mind Character]

2 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

He could legitimately play WILB, WOLB, SOLB, Sam in nickel packages, or even S

There's tons to love about Isaiah Simmons, and you're right that we need a play-maker on defense.

I'm tellin you though man the more you get into the versatile Linebacker class you're going to realize that there are multiple viable options to fulfill that role of a versatile linebacker but unlike Simmons those options are more physical against the run albeit much less dynamic athletes overall. Such prospects will be available until round 3 or 4.

You'll get more linebacker/force player bang for your buck with players like Troy Dye, Zach Baun, and Malik Harrison who can give you everything that Simmons can or more as forward playmakers with length. They aren't the backward moving play-makers that Simmons, but Simmons best attributes are going forward instead of a backward or as a lateral moving nickel matchup play-maker.  He got exposed as big nickel a lot this year.

Simmons has really spectacular linear build up speed, but lacks the lateral agility and sudden change of direction quickness because he's stiff hipped.

A pro-bowl OLineman/Wide Receiver at 10 overall + versatile LB Troy Dye/Zach Baun/Malik Harrison later in the draft + a SS like Antoine Winfield Jr. Later in the draft -OR- Jimmy Ward in Free Agency is going to be a far better use of roster building resources compared to LB Isaiah Simmons at 10 Overall + OLineman in round 2 + *** like Antoine Winfield Jr. Later in the draft -OR- Jimmy Ward in Free Agency

A versatile Linebacker that has the ability to rush off the edge and explosive linear movement skills but lacks the physicality to put their nose in it in run fits is not a player worth a Top 10 selections when their will be bonafide pro-bowl/all-pro Wide Receivers, Offensive Tackles, and Guards.

We definitely need a defender and force play-maker on that side of the ball and Simmons is a really good player, but I just don't think it will make strategic roster building sense for us tod so.

 

 

[BleedTheClock]

3 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Malik Harrison

I love him too. I think he's a future pro bowl caliber player. He's Isaiah Simmons-lite.

[Mind Character]

3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

He who gets the banhammer (Kam) is really high on Becton too, sees him as a top 15 guy and potential option at 10.

Not saying it’ll happen, but if these tackles slide it sure would be nice to slide down a few spots and picks some draft capital while still getting a T.

Becton has everything you could ever want in a OT except quick, good feet, awareness, and ability to process the game at a high level.

He's a mountain of a man, with insane lengths, and has some of the best highlight reel blocks of anyone in the draft.

He absolutely destroys defenders at times making them look like high schoolers. It's laughable how powerful the guy is.

But he's slow-footed and cannot handle the speed rush or quick jab step outside transitioned to inside rushes. He gets obliterated by them a lot.

Now, there's a difference between being slow footed + uncoordinated VS. being slow-footed + coordinated. The good news is Becton is the latter and his coordination can give him a chance to improve assuming that he takes a next step learning angles or ways to win with slow-feet. That takes a lot of advanced study and commitment.

The issue is he doesn't have that intuitive feel and much like accuracy for QBs, a sense for angles and leverage to mask foot speed deficiencies is more of a thing that a prospect has naturally that is difficult to develop.

Becton is the perfect round 2 or late round 1 trade up option. He's a better football player version of mountain man Ereck Flowers coming out of college, but there's a real comparison between the two. In a league where Flowers went #9 overall, there's a chance Becton gets pushed up to mid round or the 20s.

However, this draft has more talent overall and better Tackle prospects likely leaving Becton to go between 18th-50th. Interviews and the combine will be huge for him. He's more of a developmental starter than the plug-and-play guy we need to hit on with our first pick. He'll likely go 18 to 32. He'd make for a fantastic trade up from our 2nd round pick option Right Tackle prospect.

 

[Mind Character]

17 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I love him too. I think he's a future pro bowl caliber player. He's Isaiah Simmons-lite.

That's funny lol ... because Simmons-light is exactly how I've classified Troy Dye, Zack Baun, and Malik Harrison in my mind.

They're all going to be great versatile LB force defenders at the next level and they'll all likely be overlooked.

They all provide outside pass rush versatility especially as 34- Inside-Outside hybrid Linebackers.

They'll all cost us a tremendous amount less of draft capital relative to Simmons.

To be clear though, of course Simmons is the superior player by a fair margin on his own merits.

Hopefully (imo), our GM sees players like Harrison, Dye, and Baun as more cost-effective options to acquire the versatile LB skillset.

Analytically, Simmons is a star player so it will be interesting if DePo and Berry can resist that temptation and instead look at the entire draft pool from a birds-eye view to identify cost effective and value maximization options to fulfill particular needs they identify.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Mind Character