What's keeping Tony Boselli, Richmond Webb and Bruce Armstrong out of the HOF?

[Apparition]

Boselli was a 5x Pro Bowler, 3x first-team All-Pro

Webb was a 7x Pro Bowler, 2x first-team All-Pro, 2x second-team All-Pro 

Armstrong was a 6x Pro Bowler and 2x second-team All-Pro

Boselli and Webb are both on the second-team 1990s All-Decade team.

Seems like all three have enough accolades to make it in, and all three were widely considered among the best at their position in their era. 

Is it simply a numbers game that's keeping them out or are their caveats to their accolades that I'm missing? I realize Boselli only played 6 full seasons, but that's true of Kenny Easley as well, and he got in at a position where there's more of a backlog.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Starless

[Tugboat]

On Boselli - the fact he played for the Jaguars probably.

[naptownskinsfan]

I am not as up to date on the careers of Webb and Armstrong as I was for Boselli- I was a big Jags fan back then and loved that offense they had originally- but Boselli's career being cut short with health issues has a lot to do with it.  His first six seasons, he played 16 games three times, and 12 games twice.  He played three games in his seventh season, and then never suited up for the Texans. 

Also, Boselli, while a great tackle, was not the blindside protector, as his QB Mark Brunell threw left-handed, so there are some that say he had an easier job than his contemporaries.

Boselli had a great peak career.  But it boils down to those two points, and that's why he hasn't garnered the final push of support needed to make the HOF so far.  Now that some of the other LT's are in whose careers ran parallel to his, maybe that changes.  

[pnies20]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I am not as up to date on the careers of Webb and Armstrong as I was for Boselli- I was a big Jags fan back then and loved that offense they had originally- but Boselli's career being cut short with health issues has a lot to do with it.  His first six seasons, he played 16 games three times, and 12 games twice.  He played three games in his seventh season, and then never suited up for the Texans. 

Also, Boselli, while a great tackle, was not the blindside protector, as his QB Mark Brunell threw left-handed, so there are some that say he had an easier job than his contemporaries.

Boselli had a great peak career.  But it boils down to those two points, and that's why he hasn't garnered the final push of support needed to make the HOF so far.  Now that some of the other LT's are in whose careers ran parallel to his, maybe that changes.  

Literally the ONLY reason he isn’t in the HOF yet is because he only played 7 years in the pros. If he played 12-15 years at the same level, he would’ve been a top 5 tackle of all time.

[Jakuvious]

Boselli's big issue is really just his career being cut short. Otherwise, he'd be in 100%.

For the other two, those accolades you list really aren't actually that impressive. 6ish pro-bowls and 2ish all-pro bids leaves them in the territory of more recent players like Brian Waters, Olin Kreutz, or Nick Mangold. Good offensive linemen, but not hall of famers, I'd argue. Hell, Chris Samuels was a 6 time pro-bowler at OT. Even Lomas Brown had a similar resume.

But the bigger thing, I think, is you say they were in the conversation as being among the best at their position, but how much does that really mean? Because they definitely weren't the best at their position. I don't think anyone would take their careers over that of Roaf or Zimmerman, the two guys ahead of them on the 90s decade team. For sure Roaf, at least. So they were among the best in the sense that they were in that top 5, but that doesn't mean they were the actual best of their era. And Roaf and Zimmerman arguably aren't GOAT level OTs either, so they're a few steps down from some guys in the hall like Munoz or Ogden. It's kind of like Darren Sharper on the 2000s all-decade team. You can use that to say he was among the best at his position, but if he was never really on the level of the guys ahead of him, is that really a good hall of fame argument? I'd say no. Because if we look at OL in the hall of fame, aside from the old eras that are loaded up, you really only have like 2 guys per decade at each spot. At OT you have Dierdorf, Shell, and Yary from the 70s, Munoz and Slater in the 80s, Roaf and Zimmerman in the 90s, and Ogden, Pace, and Jones for the 00s. You put all these guys in, you have 5 90s OTs in the hall, which would be way more than any other decade, when the 90s were arguably weaker than some of the others for OT play, IMO. It isn't the kind of position where hey, you're a kind of impressive player who was 4th or 5th best at his position in his era, so you're in.

And honestly, just looking at that list of OTs in the hall, I don't think you can say that Webb or Armstrong were on the level of any of those guys. I'd be lying if I said I've watched a lot of the 70s OTs, but I know Webb/Armstrong never stood out to me the way Roaf/Ogden/Pace/Jones did in the 2000s.. Boselli might have, but he's a different issue.

[JaguarCrazy2832]

I get that longevity is an issue but you know damn well if he played for the Cowboys or Steelers he’d be in the hall

[Nabbs4u]

14 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

I get that longevity is an issue but you know damn well if he played for the Cowboys or Steelers he’d be in the hall

Not really. Unless you have say Tyron Smith as a future HOF too if he retired today? He's 1 All Pro away from Boselli numbers?

Like it or not longevity does matter. Unless you have SB rings as well to fall back on. Which none of the 4 names above have. That's why.

[Danger]

Jason Peters will be in before any of these guys in all likelihood.

9x Pro Bowl
6x All Pro
Super Bowl Champion

[SBLIII]

1 minute ago, Danger said:

Jason Peters will be in before any of these guys in all likelihood.

9x Pro Bowl
6x All Pro
Super Bowl Champion

Unlikely.

[Danger]

Just now, SBLIII said:

Unlikely.

I'm just saying, I don't think any of the guys listed above get in, Jason Peters has a better resume and will get in at some point.

[SBLIII]

Just now, Danger said:

I'm just saying, I don't think any of the guys listed above get in, Jason Peters has a better resume and will get in at some point.

I think Boselli will get it at some point.

[Danger]

1 minute ago, SBLIII said:

I think Boselli will get it at some point.

If any of the 3 get in. It will be him, but he has his short career, as well as a lack of team success working against him.

[AlexGreen#20]

I feel like there's somewhat of a lack of appreciation for the raw natural talent that Boselli was considered in NFL circles. There's a whole lot of dudes who consider him the best college player ever.

[BZski]

On 9/3/2019 at 6:10 PM, Starless said:

Boselli was a 5x Pro Bowler, 3x first-team All-Pro

Webb was a 7x Pro Bowler, 2x first-team All-Pro, 2x second-team All-Pro 

Armstrong was a 6x Pro Bowler and 2x second-team All-Pro

Boselli and Webb are both on the second-team 1990s All-Decade team.

Seems like all three have enough accolades to make it in, and all three were widely considered among the best at their position in their era. 

Is it simply a numbers game that's keeping them out or are their caveats to their accolades that I'm missing? I realize Boselli only played 6 full seasons, but that's true of Kenny Easley as well, and he got in at a position where there's more of a backlog.

I just dont see HoF for Boselli. he didnt play long enough IMO.

[Jakuvious]

8 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

I get that longevity is an issue but you know damn well if he played for the Cowboys or Steelers he’d be in the hall

I don't think it would make a difference, honestly. Sterling Sharpe was basically the same kind of career, 5 pro-bowls, 3 first team all-pros, but only got to play about half of a career, and he was on a high profile team in the Packers, and he still hasn't made it.

I could maybe see the argument that some superbowl wins push him over, if he were on the 90s Cowboys, but I don't think that's what you're saying. And even then, Nate Newton is a guy with a similar career resume and a star on his helmet, and I don't think he's ever even been considered.

OL is a position where most of your modern hall of famers are like 10 pro-bowl 7 time all-pro kind of guys. It sucks that Boselli didn't have the chance to do that, but that's absolutely why he's not in. It doesn't have anything to do with him being a Jaguar. Your hall of fame OTs from the 90s that did made it played for Minnesota/Denver and New Orleans/KC, so there isn't exactly some kind of big market bias there or something.

 

And for the record, I don't necessarily agree with this. I'd prefer guys like Boselli, Sharpe, and Terrell Davis (I know he did make it eventually) as hall of famers over guys like Andre Reed or Curtis Martin. But the selection process has been pretty consistent in recent years in terms of valuing a fully fleshed out resume over briefer greatness. So I'd put Boselli in the hall, but I think it's consistent of the process for them to have not.