beardown3231 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Did I say he was trash last season? He has been trash this season, but he has time to right the ship. No, but the post of mine that you quoted was in reference to someone calling him trash. Don't you read? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: No, but the post of mine that you quoted was in reference to someone calling him trash. Don't you read? Fair. I would say that he has been trash far too often in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 minute ago, WindyCity said: What is this based on? I am pretty comfortable with the fact that he is not going to be more than an average NFL QB. He gets this season to prove me wrong, but based on the growth we have seen and where he is at after 30 and 17, I have little confidence he is going to be more than he was last season. Good enough to flash, but inconsistent enough to never make us a consistent threat. It's based on multiple accounts of coaches and QB's over the years who say that a QB should be given at least 3 full years to develop and hone their game at this level before declaring them anything. Alex Smith said it, Big Ben said it and there are multiple examples of good to great QB's who have shown over the years that their first couple of seasons have been just as mediocre or even worse than Trubisky's and then went on to have pretty good careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 Just now, topwop1 said: It's based on multiple accounts of coaches and QB's over the years who say that a QB should be given at least 3 full years to develop and hone their game at this level before declaring them anything. Alex Smith said it, Big Ben said it and there are multiple examples of good to great QB's who have shown over the years that their first couple of seasons have been just as mediocre or even worse than Trubisky's and then went on to have pretty good careers. I am willing to bet that there are more QBs who have never become good after having a mediocre first couple of seasons. Coach speak aside, very few players at any position get 3 years to develop and show themselves. Sometimes if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck you have to accept that it is a duck. [Duck = mediocre QB] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 minute ago, WindyCity said: I am willing to bet that there are more QBs who have never become good after having a mediocre first couple of seasons. Coach speak aside, very few players at any position get 3 years to develop and show themselves. Sometimes if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck you have to accept that it is a duck. [Duck = mediocre QB] That's fine if you want to believe that. I'm not trying to convince you to think he will be a great QB someday. Just saying the pessimism is a little much lately after a couple bad starts at the beginning of the season. Man I really hope he proves you wrong. I am definitely pulling for the guy all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: Patience is a funny thing because it is often accompanied with the belief that time is going to equal to improvement. We know that patience is not always rewarded. We were patient with Cutler and he never progressed, because his ceiling was his ceiling, not amount of time was going to change that. 30 NFL Games, 17 with Nagy, and we are watching a regression to the worse parts of last season. I think we have shown patience. I do not need him to be a finished product or a star, but I need to see some progress and growth. Patience, is costing us valuable time with this defense in its prime. You can't compare Trubisky to Cutler...especially in terms of support... I still have plenty of rope left for Trubisky and see very few better options that are realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 13 minutes ago, topwop1 said: That's fine if you want to believe that. I'm not trying to convince you to think he will be a great QB someday. Just saying the pessimism is a little much lately after a couple bad starts at the beginning of the season. Man I really hope he proves you wrong. I am definitely pulling for the guy all the way. I would love for him to be good. But that is not what a majority of the evidence tells us. The most optimistic reading of the evidence tells us that he wildly inconsistent. It isn't pessimism, it is reality, as we sit here he is not good enough. I am choosing not to hold out on a faint hope that the light is magically going to come on and more importantly stay on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: You can't compare Trubisky to Cutler...especially in terms of support... I still have plenty of rope left for Trubisky and see very few better options that are realistic. This season you are correct. It is ride or die with 10. But in the offseason that is totally different. With this defense the Bears would be better off with a lower ceiling QB that can consistently execute the offense. There is nothing more pointless than holding on to someone you know can't get the job done and without a major improvement this season that is what Trubisky will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 29 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Fair. I would say that he has been trash far too often in his career. From adequate to trash in a matter of an hour? Is your goal to be pessimistic on everything, like, you realized you were being kind of optimistic and immediately went back to normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: From adequate to trash in a matter of an hour? Is your goal to be pessimistic on everything, like, you realized you were being kind of optimistic and immediately went back to normal? If you add up the number of games he has been good and the number of games where he has been bad, there are more bad games then good. As I said, Trash too often in his career. Do you read? Good: TB, Det, GB 2 Pretty Good: Mia, NE, NYJ, SF, Min 2 Bad: GB 1, SEA, AZ, Buf, Min 1, LAR, Phil, GB 3, Den Over 50% of his games have been games where he was not good. That is a problem. QBs can have bad games, but they shouldn't be 9/17 of their games. Edited September 19, 2019 by WindyCity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, WindyCity said: If you add up the number of games he has been good and the number of games where he has been bad, there are more bad games then good. As I said, Trash too often in his career. Do you read? Good: TB, Det, GB 2 Pretty Good: Mia, NE, NYJ, SF, Min 2 Bad: GB 1, SEA, AZ, Buf, Min 1, LAR, Phil, GB 3, Den Over 50% of his games have been games where he was not good. That is a problem. QBs can have bad games, but they shouldn't be 9/17 of their games. He wasn't trash against Seattle or Philadelphia. I'd call it average or below average, but "trash?" Trash is like 13-2 with 113 yards and 4 INT's. Trash is Nathan Peterman. Maybe we have different definitions of trash. He also probably got a very vanilla gameplan vs Buffalo when the score was 40-0 at the coin toss. But sure, whatever dude. Very raw QB has had an up and down career? Holy cow! That never happens! Edited September 19, 2019 by beardown3231 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: I would love for him to be good. But that is not what a majority of the evidence tells us. The most optimistic reading of the evidence tells us that he wildly inconsistent. It isn't pessimism, it is reality, as we sit here he is not good enough. I am choosing not to hold out on a faint hope that the light is magically going to come on and more importantly stay on. What evidence are you referring to exactly and what benchmark are you using (aside from personal beliefs) to compare Mitch's stats and performance to that are telling you it is likely that he will never be better than average? Is there a specific standard that guarantees QB success/failure rate at this point in his respective career? This is also considering that Mahomes is an exception to the rule and not a fair comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, topwop1 said: What evidence are you referring to exactly and what benchmark are you using (aside from personal beliefs) to compare Mitch's stats and performance to that are telling you it is likely that he will never be better than average? Is there a specific standard that guarantees QB success/failure rate at this point in his respective career? This is also considering that Mahomes is an exception to the rule and not a fair comparison. -He is wildly inconsistent -He struggles to read defenses and misses open WRs -He locks onto his #1 WR a ton -He makes a too many questionable throws into coverages -He struggles to throw the ball deep -In year 2 with Nagy it took him 2 games to get the training wheels put back on That kind of evidence. Edited September 19, 2019 by WindyCity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 26 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: He wasn't trash against Seattle or Philadelphia. I'd call it average or below average, but "trash?" Trash is like 13-2 with 113 yards and 4 INT's. Trash is Nathan Peterman. Maybe we have different definitions of trash. He also probably got a very vanilla gameplan vs Buffalo when the score was 40-0 at the coin toss. But sure, whatever dude. Very raw QB has had an up and down career? Holy cow! That never happens! Bad, Trash, Not Good-it is all semantics. Those were games where he wasn't good enough. The problem is not the ups and down, that is to be expected, the issue is that there has been more down than up to this point. That is the concerning point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 53 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Bad, Trash, Not Good-it is all semantics. Those were games where he wasn't good enough. The problem is not the ups and down, that is to be expected, the issue is that there has been more down than up to this point. That is the concerning point. I don't disagree but what will constantly complaining do? This is Mitch's job for, at worst, 14 more games. All we can do is sit back and hope it gets better but to post every day 10 times a day about how concerning it is just seems overbearing to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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