lancerman Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Boltstrikes said: I obviously hate Eli more then the next guy but this is ridiculous. You bench him to kill his conservative start streak and then put him back as the starter a week later. Then the following year you bench him after two games. If you were done with Eli at least cut him and give him the opportunity to play somewhere else, he deserves that after what he has given up for the franchise. He's not going to play anywhere else. If you cut him he would never get a contract anywhere outside the New York Giants that would be viewed as respectable and not a slap in the face to a two time Super Bowl winner. That's just reality. He's been bottom third at best in passer rating for the better part of the decade and one of the worst INT QB's as well. He also has lost a ton of accuracy, needs more time to set up his throws, has no mobility, and is arguably the worst QB league at dealing with pocket pressure. The Giants were the only team that would have rolled into the season giving him a fair shake at playing. There's no upside with him anymore and too many younger back ups that you can argue are more athletic, have better arms, and are better at limiting mistakes. The Giants are still paying him good money and they at least gave him opportunities the last few years out of respect for what he did for he franchise. Anywhere else would have benched him and the fans would have eviscerated. There is no scenario like the one you are saying. It ends in Eli getting humiliating contract offers and having the shortest of leashes on a team that won't have the same reverance for him, assuming he just decides it's not worth it. People really need to understand that the Giants tolerated this a lot longer than any other franchise would have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 27 minutes ago, lancerman said: I don't know if you've watched Eli the last few years, but the reality is he is at his very best a complete lateral move from the worst of these players. His reputation is the reason he has lasted this long. 2018 he had the 21st ranked passer rating and that was despite what going on what qualified for him as a surge. In 2017 he had the 26th ranked passer rating. In 2016 he had the 22nd ranked passer rating. 2015 was the last time he was even in the top half of the league and he still was outside the top 10. Same fo 2014. Then in 2013 he had the 35th ranked passer rating in the league. He's thrown double digit INT's every year this decade. The only stat he really hasn't been absymal in is that he throws for alot of yards. There's no reason to pay Eli's contract to replace any of these guys. Trubisky sucks, but the actual difference as a passer is negligible from a statistical standpoint and he's a lot more mobile and can deal with pressure better than Eli can at this junctue. Brissette isn't great or really the longterm guy, but right now he has been more efficient and limits mistakes alot more and athletically he's superior and will extend the plays Eli can't. Winston, it's a wash and Winston has more upside. The Steelers are already in the hole and, Eli just flat out isn't better than either option they had this year and their division means they will be at best racing for a highly contested 2nd wilcard slot. For the Saints Brees is coming back in a few weeks, the minute Brees is available he's going back on the field, Brees could play like dog**** when he gets back and they wouldn't be able to justify going to Eli. That leaves the Jaguars as your first pick and it's almostly entirely based off reputation with Coughlin. There's really no reason for this to happen. Of all the teams you mentioned, Minshew the current QB is playing the best ball through two weeks and they have the hardest playoff road to walk anyways. Really it's hard to justify that Eli based off his last 3-5 years is a better option than anybody even if you are going to be emphatic that they are not the answer. He's not the answer for the Giants anymore and that is a team that is going nowhere fast. His reputation doesn't change that he's been a shell of himself for a long time. He was always an up and down QB. Now his highs are much lower and barely acceptable NFL play and his lows are outright trash. One of his biggest problems is he lacks mobility and he falls over at the slightest sign of pressure in the pocket which athletically makes anybody under 30 a superior option. Also it's not like you can ask him to be a system QB to use his veteran knowledge, he doesn't limit mistakes. He throws too many INT's and is too inefficient to really play that role. There's no reason for any of these teams to take him. And quite frankly, there's no trade that these teams could make that would justify the Giants letting their longtime starter go. Eli wouldn't net 3rd rounder from any of these teams. He wouldn't net any significant player from any of these teams. I think the Giants would be lambasted if they let Eli go for a 4th or 5th and some mid range role player. He can still manage the game for a contender. 2015 Manning for example. Osweiler has way more physical talent but he’s dumb as a rock. No question what so ever they lose to the Pats with Brock. Peyton Mannings intelligence helped them get over the hump. Bears are similar. Trubisky is dumb as a rock and Bears are not winning a Championship with him. They also have a defense that has the potential to be historic. Eli would not be a bad insurance plan for Mitch Trubisky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 29 minutes ago, BayRaider said: He can still manage the game for a contender. 2015 Manning for example. Osweiler has way more physical talent but he’s dumb as a rock. No question what so ever they lose to the Pats with Brock. Peyton Mannings intelligence helped them get over the hump. Bears are similar. Trubisky is dumb as a rock and Bears are not winning a Championship with him. They also have a defense that has the potential to be historic. Eli would not be a bad insurance plan for Mitch Trubisky. No he can't. Eli has never been that guy, he's not capable of being what his brother was in 2015. Eli has always been more of a gunslinger type QB who is prone to making some big plays every once in awhile. To be a game manager you need two things. 1. Able to efficient in a controlled sample size. Eli is not and never has been an efficient QB. Ever. That's just not who he is. He's not going to change into that now. 2. Limit mistakes. Eli has always had an INT problem and he is prone to making stupid ill advised throws. Eli at his best when he went on great streaks and won he was basically just being a Farve style gunslinger and things were just working out exceptionally well for a stretch of time. Aside from that, he's always been far too erratic. And right now he has no ability to extend plays if he gets in trouble and folds and falls over at the slightest pressure from the pocket when you want your QB to either extend or thorw the ball away. His brother was a much smarter QB and had timing down and always knew how to make the best reads. That's never been and never will be Eli. He's not going to morph into a totally new QB at the very end. Eli is also much worse now. There's no upside to him. You are getting bad reckless QB play and the reality is he doesn't have the athletic traits a younger guy like Trubisky has to at least improvise a little if things get bad. The Bears would never overextend to get someone like Eli. Seriously what would the Bears trade to get him? Not a good player. Not a high draft pick. What would they pay him? He ain't getting anything that wouldn't be a huge downgrade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboRocket Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Joe_is_the_best said: Well he wasn’t in a Head & Shoulders Commercial, so not him. Whoa, I didn't know Daniel Jones could throw the football to himself! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) On 9/17/2019 at 11:16 PM, lancerman said: 0 All Pro's 0MVP's I, nor anyone else here ever suggested that Eli was an elite QB.. This is just another example of the piling on. Everybody knows Eli was not a MVP or All Pro caliber player, but on the other hand, it's total BS to say his whole career was mediocre... On 9/17/2019 at 11:16 PM, lancerman said: 4x one and done in the playoffs. 9 out of 15 times missed the playoffs. 13 out of 14 times didn't win a playoff game. .500 record. Win as a team, lose as a team. You're insinuating that the Giants were a stacked team being held back by Eli all of these years, which is completely false. When you look at some of the rosters this team has fielded over the years, it's almost a wonder how Eli was even able to accomplish what he has.. On 9/17/2019 at 11:16 PM, lancerman said: 3rd best QB of his draft class And? All 3 are shoo-ins for the HOF... On 9/17/2019 at 11:16 PM, lancerman said: 3rd best QB in his family So you belittle Eli's accomplishments because of the lack of team success, yet Archie never had a winning season, never went to the playoffs, and has a 35-101-3 career record, but according to you, he was better than Eli.... good job. On 9/17/2019 at 11:16 PM, lancerman said: As many conference championhip game appearance as famous NY QB Mark Sanchez. Unlike famous NY QB Mark Sanchez, Eli won those championship games, then went on to win the Super Bowls, where he was named MVP on both occasions. But yeah, you make a great point.... On 9/17/2019 at 11:16 PM, lancerman said: Benched for famous NY QB Geno Smith Then, after nationwide ridicule, the Giants realized what an asinine decision that was, and put Eli back in the following week, and at the end of the season, everybody involved was fired. Again, very thoughtful point..... On 9/17/2019 at 11:16 PM, lancerman said: A worse passer rating than contemporaies such Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Tom Brady, Tony Romo, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisberger, Kurt Warner who got benched for him, Carson Wentz, Marcus Mariota who is on a make or break year, Chad Pennington, Andrew Luck, Matt Schaub, Andy Dalton, jobless Colin Kaepernick, Derek Carr, Nick Foles, Matthew Stafford, Carson Palmer, Daunt Culpepper, Jeff Garcia, Alex Smith, Ryan Tannehill, Jameis Winston, Cam Newton, Case Keenum, Jay Cutler, Sam Bradford, Marc Bulger and Joe Flacco. So what exactly does this mean? Are you saying that all of these guys, particularly the ones highlighted, are all better, and all had better careers than Eli Manning, simply due to one stat, of which most people have no idea of the formula... I have to hand it to you, it almost looks like you put some effort into your post.... Edited September 20, 2019 by frenchie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 6 hours ago, BayRaider said: Unless he’s content retiring and tutoring Jones the rest of the year (he may be) Eli should quietly be asked to be traded. The team will give him anything he wants for his service, they’d probably send him off for a 6th Round Pick. So if Eli has any competitive spirit left, he should ask for a trade. I’m not sure what team would trade for him though. Steelers and Colts actually seem to really like their QBs, although I personally think Brisset is well below average. Options: 1. Jaguars This makes so much sense. Jags still have a small smallllll shot at the playoffs with that defense and good QB play and he has a connection to Tom Coughlin. 2. Bears Bears should trade him as a “backup” but behind the scenes it’s a security move in case Mitch keeps messin up. Eli taking over like Week 13 and beating Brady in the SB would be lmao status. 3. Colts Colts have a contending team and Brisset is not the answer. 4. Bucs Trade for Eli as backup but keep Winston on short leash. Bucs have a shot at the playoffs. 5. Steelers Highly highly unlikely, they seem to be all in with Rudolph. Would be hilarious though. 6. Saints If Brees is out half the season or more, and Eli is from New Orleans, perhaps he can help them stay .500 til Brees comes back. Bridgewater is NOT the answer and they are doomed with him. Jags - Could be a possibility, but let's be honest, they aren't going anywhere. Defense is nothing special, no playmakers on offense. They're committed to Foles, who should return around week 10; I'd like to see what they have in Minshew, who at least hasn't been a train wreck so far, so. Eli would simply be putting himself into a worse situation... On a side note, as much as everybody hated Bortles, I find it comical that the Jags' first two games without him, they're 0-2. Bears - Bringing in Eli would pretty much mean that they are done with Trubisky, who I admit looks clueless right now, but it's too soon to give up on him... Colts - I actually like this idea. Although he's doing ok at the moment, they aren't going anywhere with Brissett... Eli could at least get them into playoff conversation. Bucs - I like it. Winston is a proven foul-up; it's just a matter of time... Steelers - I want to see what Rudolph can do for at least a couple weeks. If he's a mess, maybe try to bring in Eli. Saints - No way. Brees will be back in a few weeks, so it really wouldn't be worth the trouble. Beyond week 4, the Saints have a pretty favorable schedule. All Bridgewater and Hill have to do is manage to win 2, maybe 3 games while Brees is out.... What about Carolina? Newton looks done, and is supposedly injured. Rivera has got to be feeling heat. Honestly, I'd like to get a look at Will Grier, but I think Eli can get that team to the playoffs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, BayRaider said: He can still manage the game for a contender. 2015 Manning for example. Osweiler has way more physical talent but he’s dumb as a rock. No question what so ever they lose to the Pats with Brock. Peyton Mannings intelligence helped them get over the hump. Eli isn’t Peyton, though. The only similarities they have as a quarterback is the name on the back of the jersey. It’s like saying any washed up veteran can be 2015 Peyton. Eli isn’t as physically-done as Peyton was, but you said it yourself, Manning’s smarts as a QB is what helped that Broncos offense do just enough to not tank a historic defense. Eli isn’t, and has never been, nearly the QB Peyton was - especially in terms of mental acuity (which I realize I have no capacity to measure) or natural accuracy. And even if Eli was that type of guy, that was a historic defense. One of the greatest we’ve seen. No team this year is going to be that. Edited September 19, 2019 by Yin-Yang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y*so*blu Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Think any Giants fans will protest it this time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 19 minutes ago, y*so*blu said: Think any Giants fans will protest it this time? We wouldn't have protested it last time if it had been in favor of giving a young prospect like Lauletta a chance to prove himself. But to bench him and kill the streak for Geno Smith.... yea that was protest worthy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 19 minutes ago, Shockey1979 said: We wouldn't have protested it last time if it had been in favor of giving a young prospect like Lauletta a chance to prove himself. But to bench him and kill the streak for Geno Smith.... yea that was protest worthy. We had Davis Webb at that point, but yeah. I think the outrage was misinterpreted a bit- we weren't necessarily mad that Eli got benched, but that he got benched for Geno Smith, who Giants fans heard Jets fans complain about for years. We had a front row seat for how underwhelming Geno was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 13 hours ago, frenchie said: I, nor anyone else here ever suggested that Eli was an elite QB.. This is just another example of the piling on. Everybody knows Eli was not a MVP or All Pro caliber player, but on the other hand, it's total BS to say his whole career was mediocre... Besides the two Super Bowls and ability to stay healthy and accumulate bulk stats, what is extraordinary about his career? 13 hours ago, frenchie said: Win as a team, lose as a team. You're insinuating that the Giants were a stacked team being held back by Eli all of these years, which is completely false. When you look at some of the rosters this team has fielded over the years, it's almost a wonder how Eli was even able to accomplish what he has.. I generally agree with you, but this seems counter-intuitive, right? Do you believe that a QB who was not an MVP or All Pro Caliber player who's best case is two team awards should be in the HoF? Not saying will he (because I think he obviously will be), but should he? Yes, he had the SB MVPs (which you don't even get there if you're team isn't good), but I would argue that those were mostly a lack of better candidate and him being the face of the team rather than undeniably exceptional play. I'm not suggesting he was awful or even bad, but if wasn't like he had ridiculously outrageous games as a whole in either. And those two games alone are essentially his entire case for the HoF, unless I'm missing something obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 18 minutes ago, Soggust said: Besides the two Super Bowls and ability to stay healthy and accumulate bulk stats, what is extraordinary about his career? I generally agree with you, but this seems counter-intuitive, right? Do you believe that a QB who was not an MVP or All Pro Caliber player who's best case is two team awards should be in the HoF? Not saying will he (because I think he obviously will be), but should he? Yes, he had the SB MVPs (which you don't even get there if you're team isn't good), but I would argue that those were mostly a lack of better candidate and him being the face of the team rather than undeniably exceptional play. I'm not suggesting he was awful or even bad, but if wasn't like he had ridiculously outrageous games as a whole in either. And those two games alone are essentially his entire case for the HoF, unless I'm missing something obvious? Hall of Fame is not the Hall of Stats. To me, and a lot of other people/HoF voters, the Hall of Fame is for players you can't tell the story of the NFL without. Joe Namath finished with a .500 record, 1 super bowl win, and overall average stats. He got in because of his guarantee and its importance in NFL history. Eli definitely has solidified his place in NFL history. His resume has been stated here a million times, so I don't need to repeat it. Also, the bolded argument doesn't seem fair. You can't discount someone's biggest accomplishments then ask what have they done besides those things. Those are pretty big things and we obviously wouldn't be having the discussion if he didn't achieve those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, minutemancl said: Hall of Fame is not the Hall of Stats. To me, and a lot of other people/HoF voters, the Hall of Fame is for players you can't tell the story of the NFL without. Joe Namath finished with a .500 record, 1 super bowl win, and overall average stats. He got in because of his guarantee and its importance in NFL history. Eli definitely has solidified his place in NFL history. His resume has been stated here a million times, so I don't need to repeat it. Also, the bolded argument doesn't seem fair. You can't discount someone's biggest accomplishments then ask what have they done besides those things. Those are pretty big things and we obviously wouldn't be having the discussion if he didn't achieve those things. I think a lot of people would argue that Joe Namath shouldn't be in the hall of fame, for that exact reason. Because if you are going down that road, where does it stop? Is Justin Tuck a hall of famer? What about Plaxico or Tyree? They were all part of the story too, right? In the bolded argument, I'm addressing the SB wins individually by saying that it's a team accomplishment and (in my opinion) shouldn't be enough to get you into the HoF. The other side is while, yeah, he has bulk stats, that's clearly a product of the times. Of the top 11 in passing attempts, 7 are still active. His efficiency numbers scream Drew Bledsoe or Joe Flacco more than Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben. If he didn't have the SB wins, do you think his resume would get him into the HoF? Of course not. His legacy is almost entirely predicated on two team accomplishments, is the point I'm trying to make. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 7 hours ago, minutemancl said: Hall of Fame is not the Hall of Stats. To me, and a lot of other people/HoF voters, the Hall of Fame is for players you can't tell the story of the NFL without. Joe Namath finished with a .500 record, 1 super bowl win, and overall average stats. He got in because of his guarantee and its importance in NFL history. Eli definitely has solidified his place in NFL history. His resume has been stated here a million times, so I don't need to repeat it. Also, the bolded argument doesn't seem fair. You can't discount someone's biggest accomplishments then ask what have they done besides those things. Those are pretty big things and we obviously wouldn't be having the discussion if he didn't achieve those things. Joe Namath also had 2 AFL MVP's, multiple All AFL's, broke records in his time, had an All Pro, and was generally considered the best AFL QB along with Dawson. So it's very different to compare him to Eli who has no MVP's, no All Pro's, never led the league in a stat besides INT's much less broke a record, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 So is Danny now the 3rd best QB from his draft class with the Emergence of The Minshew?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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