GDT 11/3/19 Week 9: 5-2 Baltimore Ravens vs 8-0 New England Patriots

[DreamKid]

8 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Bandwagoners, mostly. None of us sane fans expected to go 16-0 with Newhouse as a LT.

Yea, your team forum was pretty level headed in their analysis of the Ravens match up and prospects going forward against similarly built teams. It's a different world for casuals though and the media is good at whipping them into a frenzy. I feel bad for that kid. Likely going to be mocked relentlessly for having such a moment on camera.

[SalvadorsDeli]

Gotta love how much mutual respect there is in this rivalry. Feel like the same probably goes for Harbaugh and Belichek, Bill might be the GOAT but Harbaugh's one of the only coaches out there who doesn't approach these games scared of that. 

[Hunter2_1]

29 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Yea, your team forum was pretty level headed in their analysis of the Ravens match up and prospects going forward against similarly built teams. It's a different world for casuals though and the media is good at whipping them into a frenzy. I feel bad for that kid. Likely going to be mocked relentlessly for having such a moment on camera.

Bit harsh, wasn't it  

[diamondbull424]

12 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

We decimated their defense while only running the ball, pretty much. 162 yards passing is still a huge red flag when the entire team is healthy and we're coming out of a bye week. Don't get me wrong, if we're just gonna run our way to victory I'm all for it, but eventually some team is going to slow that run game down and we're going to need to beat a team through the air, OR we're going to play from behind and have to throw it and I just don't see it with this offense - it's not even a Lamar thing! It's not "I don't think Lamar can do it", it's a "I don't think we have the plays/skill position guys to do it".

Our rushing offense might be quite honestly the best of all time right now, tbh.

I love Lamar, but what Russell Wilson is doing is just on another level right now.

Why because he’s passing the ball? I don’t subscribe to that concept. What Lamar is doing is just as valuable and probably moreso. He’s leading a historically dominant rushing attack that is probably (I haven’t checked the updates), the #1 scoring offense in the NFL. The defenses are similarly “good” to this point in the season as well. So Lamar should break Vick’s record and our rushing attack in a passing league should destroy the rushing attack record as well. If it goes down as the #1 offense in the league, what makes Wilson’s resume more impressive? Especially considering the points and yards per drive efficiency.

[DreamKid]

1 minute ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Bit harsh, wasn't it  

Viral stuff frequently gives me that double edged sword reaction. Like I'll see a funny video of some kid, then seconds later consider the beneath the surface psychological scarring inflicted upon him/her- usually by a close friend or family member who is releasing a private, embarrassing, or sometimes awful moment of their lives to a mass audience.

Also, the fan having such a severe reaction to a football game makes me question whether or not he's already dealing with some "imbalances". I don't know if he could've lasted through our '07 meeting lol.

All you can do is hope he takes it in stride. I'm sure it will end up as massively recycled content, as fans of other clubs seem to revel in the very infrequent Pats' loss.  He could be dealing with this for a while....

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, diamondbull424 said:

Why because he’s passing the ball?

No, it's because of basically everything he's doing, with almost nothing around him. Dude is putting up insane stats with a supporting cast that would be enough of an excuse for any other QB to not perform well, but here he is, blowing all other QB's away statistically.

Just now, diamondbull424 said:

I don’t subscribe to that concept. What Lamar is doing is just as valuable and probably moreso. He’s leading a historically dominant rushing attack that is probably (I haven’t checked the updates), the #1 scoring offense in the NFL.

We are the #1 scoring offense in the league. I think the Patriots had that title "officially" as of last week, but you have to keep in mind that that includes points scored by your defense. We'll take that title officially this week.

Just now, diamondbull424 said:

The defenses are similarly “good” to this point in the season as well.

Seattle's is slightly worse, but point taken.

Just now, diamondbull424 said:

So Lamar should break Vick’s record and our rushing attack in a passing league should destroy the rushing attack record as well. If it goes down as the #1 offense in the league, what makes Wilson’s resume more impressive? Especially considering the points and yards per drive efficiency.

What makes his resume more impressive is the manner in which he's won games, the 22 TD's / 1 INT stat line, the passing numbers while under pressure, the consistency in the play despite having basically nothing around him. I understand where we're all coming from with the "Lamar should be MVP" talk because what he's doing rushing-wise is comparable to what Russell Wilson is doing passing-wise, but the league will always value passing over rushing when it comes to QB play and when we're talking about MVP players here, that has to be taken into account.

I mean, for as good as Lamar is, Russell Wilson is doing things like this consistently:

The amount of insanely accurate throws he's made this year (and a lot of them have been for touchdowns) is ridiculous. 

So TL;DR --> The league will view Wilson's passing contributions/stats as more impressive than Lamar's rushing stats, especially when comparing QB's.

[berlin calling]

always good to beat the class of the league. Signature win on prime time no less. 

just take it on game at a time and do not look ahead thinking about possible play off ranking already. i'm not a big JH supporter but i do trust him to keep his guys level headed and focused.

also hats off to JH for ALWAYS having his team coming out of the bye week very well prepared.

[diamondbull424]

15 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

No, it's because of basically everything he's doing, with almost nothing around him. Dude is putting up insane stats with a supporting cast that would be enough of an excuse for any other QB to not perform well, but here he is, blowing all other QB's away statistically.

We are the #1 scoring offense in the league. I think the Patriots had that title "officially" as of last week, but you have to keep in mind that that includes points scored by your defense. We'll take that title officially this week.

Seattle's is slightly worse, but point taken.

What makes his resume more impressive is the manner in which he's won games, the 22 TD's / 1 INT stat line, the passing numbers while under pressure, the consistency in the play despite having basically nothing around him. I understand where we're all coming from with the "Lamar should be MVP" talk because what he's doing rushing-wise is comparable to what Russell Wilson is doing passing-wise, but the league will always value passing over rushing when it comes to QB play and when we're talking about MVP players here, that has to be taken into account.

I mean, for as good as Lamar is, Russell Wilson is doing things like this consistently:

The amount of insanely accurate throws he's made this year (and a lot of them have been for touchdowns) is ridiculous. 

So TL;DR --> The league will view Wilson's passing contributions/stats as more impressive than Lamar's rushing stats, especially when comparing QB's.

I ran out of likes so I can’t like this. But I don’t disagree with Wilson winning. I think he’s the front runner for sure. 

I’m simply not a fan of saying it’s on another level. The decision making that Lamar has in the run game, his playmaking ability with his feet, plus his ability to make key passes and be efficient in the passing game, lead the #1 ranked rushing attack in the HISTORY of the NFL as well as destroy the rushing record of the most prolific running QB in NFL history.

When Lamar met Wilson and his Seahawks we had by far the worst defense of the two to that point. And Lamar overcame and found a way to beat Wilson’s team. Now we obviously have gotten some more pieces back that changes things a little.

Lamar then played the top defense in the league against a former MVP and our offense dropped 30 points on it and won convincingly. We also play Watson’s Texans and he’s in the MVP conversation. If the Ravens overcome in that game as well, I don’t understand how a player can beat all the other top MVP options and not win the MVP.

That said would Lamar win in a passing league against an option that is clearly more well liked than him? Probably not, but I do think he should win the OPOY if he doesn’t win the MVP... if things continue along the same pace.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Strictly statistical MVP comparison I just made

5 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I ran out of likes so I can’t like this. But I don’t disagree with Wilson winning. I think he’s the front runner for sure. 

I’m simply not a fan of saying it’s on another level. The decision making that Lamar has in the run game, his playmaking ability with his feet, plus his ability to make key passes and be efficient in the passing game, lead the #1 ranked rushing attack in the HISTORY of the NFL as well as destroy the rushing record of the most prolific running QB in NFL history.

I feel like the arguments we're making for Lamar as MVP are along the same lines of arguing that Christian McCaffrey should be MVP - the league just doesn't value those kinds of things as much as they value pure passers putting up great stats. Heck, it was the same argument against Russell Wilson winning MVP in those other years - he wasn't putting up the bulk passing stats that others were putting up (Andrew Luck, for example). The things Lamar is doing are incredible in their own right, but will the league value that same thing on the same level as they value what Wilson is doing throwing the ball? I just don't believe so.

5 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

When Lamar met Wilson and his Seahawks we had by far the worst defense of the two to that point. And Lamar overcame and found a way to beat Wilson’s team. Now we obviously have gotten some more pieces back that changes things a little.

Has our defense really climbed that much in DVOA in one week + a bye, though? Seattle's defense after yesterday is going to continue falling while ours is going to continue climbing, which only bolsters Wilson's MVP argument.

5 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Lamar then played the top defense in the league against a former MVP and our offense dropped 30 points on it and won convincingly. We also play Watson’s Texans and he’s in the MVP conversation. If the Ravens overcome in that game as well, I don’t understand how a player can beat all the other top MVP options and not win the MVP.

Absolutely agreed here, and I think this is the strongest argument in favor of Lamar - the competition he's beating (which ironically was the argument being used against him earlier this season by folks).

5 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

That said would Lamar win in a passing league against an option that is clearly more well liked than him? Probably not, but I do think he should win the OPOY if he doesn’t win the MVP... if things continue along the same pace.

Now this is a very interesting argument, considering that OPOY is usually not a QB award (in fact, the NFL account on Twitter excluded QB's from the award nominations entirely).

[DreamKid]

FWIW.

 

[berlin calling]

Chris Moore certainly didn't help his case with that fumble on his kickoff return. Only had 2 snaps on offense... go figure. Bad timing to join the dog house when he should be playing for a new contract.

[diamondbull424]

12 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I feel like the arguments we're making for Lamar as MVP are along the same lines of arguing that Christian McCaffrey should be MVP - the league just doesn't value those kinds of things as much as they value pure passers putting up great stats. Heck, it was the same argument against Russell Wilson winning MVP in those other years - he wasn't putting up the bulk passing stats that others were putting up (Andrew Luck, for example). The things Lamar is doing are incredible in their own right, but will the league value that same thing on the same level as they value what Wilson is doing throwing the ball? I just don't believe so.

Perhaps, but my biggest gripe from your post was that this race “isn’t close”. That said I think this polling should come down to records. Wilson has a chance at breaking Aaron Rodgers passer rating record from 2011 which is a crazy stat to break and would for sure be the biggest accomplishment one could have, however with the Seahawks schedule picking up from average to difficult in the last half of the season where they face the 49ers defense twice, the Panthers defense, Vikings defense... plus other quality opponents like the Rams, Eagles, and improved Cardinals... I can’t see Wilson breaking that passer rating record. So besides that, we would have a player that balled out and put up excellent stats and his team likely finishes as a wildcard. Heck, there’s a good enough possibility that the Seahawks could miss the playoffs in which case an MVP for Wilson certainly becomes null and void regardless of his play/stats.

Whereas on the other side Lamar Jackson could set two records; the first would be Mike Vick’s and the second is the all time offensive rushing yards record for a team... both of which he’s beyond pace for at the moment. His offense is 1st in yards per drive and points per drive. He’s 5th in QBR. 13th in passer rating. So he’s a historically dominant rushing threat with above average passing ability. He leads the most efficient and dominant offense in the NFL. He so far is the only QB to decimate that vaunted Patriots defense. And he has a solid chance to lead the AFCs 1st/2nd best team (record wise). So if Wilson doesn’t break a record I don’t see how you could pick him over Lamar (assuming Lamar gets both records).

12 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Has our defense really climbed that much in DVOA in one week + a bye, though? Seattle's defense after yesterday is going to continue falling while ours is going to continue climbing, which only bolsters Wilson's MVP argument.

Through week 8 (still waiting on 9) the Seahawks were ranked as the 16th best defense in points per drive and ranked as the 21st best defense in yards per drive... which is pretty average. The Ravens measured in below as the 19th best defense in points per drive and the 23rd ranked defense in yards per drive. So up until this week of the season, the Ravens defense was on an inferior level.

12 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Absolutely agreed here, and I think this is the strongest argument in favor of Lamar - the competition he's beating (which ironically was the argument being used against him earlier this season by folks).

No arguments here.

12 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Now this is a very interesting argument, considering that OPOY is usually not a QB award (in fact, the NFL account on Twitter excluded QB's from the award nominations entirely).

Yup. Mahomes won both the OPOY and the MVP, so Lamar could win just the OPOY award if it came down to that.

[Danand]

I had trouble sleeping, because I was so excited/anxious about the Patriots game. If someone had told me, that we could win with two turnovers inside our own 20 yard line, I would have doubted them.

I was happy that I chose to get up at 6 London time to watch the highlights on a bad connection and see us pull a small upset. We didn't get cute with the playcalling for most of the game, and we didn't "spare" Lamar against a great Patriots defense. 

Once again, kudos to those of you who are so optimistic about the season. Also, this is a great great turnaround by the coaching staff who identified what needed to be done to fix the defense. Some of us talked about, that we should not underestimate the importance of getting Peanut back at his natural position. What a game he had.

Combined with adding Marcus Peters, Josh Bynes, L.J. Fort and Jihad Ward, we are suddenly fielding a defense that doesn't make the mistakes we did earlier in the season.

I watched the Texans Jaguars game in London, and I am suddenly not that impressed with the Texans. I believe our chances against them is better now than on paper.

DB's suggestion that we should pursue Calais Campbell in free agency next year, I can only support that. He is still a load to handle. Him and Ngakoue are really great players on that Jaguars defense. 

[DreamKid]

 

[diamondbull424]

This has got to be the worst sports segment that I have ever seen. I honestly still can’t believe what I’ve watched....