How good is Carson Wentz

[rocky_rams]

25 minutes ago, Magnifico said:

I genuinely don't understand how you can watch Eagles game this year and decide that Wentz is a game manager. Like seriously?

That entire team lives and die by him and on the off chance they establish a run game on a given week.

They're beaten up and injured. Have some of the worst WR play in the league. Have a good awful secondary which allows big plays, and you think Wentz is out there managing games whilst his defence holds down the fort or the run game make the offence significantly tick?????

Not that a Game Manager is a bad thing' but a game manager is Jimmy G (for most of the year not last two weeks), Kyle Allen,  Mason Rudolph, Alex Smith in years gone by.

I’m assuming that being 18th in passing yards and 11th in rushing yds and 31st in pass yd avg has something to do with him managing games. 

 

[RandyMossIsBoss]

In thread that closed, it was asked if Wentz would have been the 2017 MVP if he never got hurt, and I think the answer is almost certainly. 

From about the quarter season mark to the SNF game between Seattle, Carson was the MVP favorite. Fans, media, vegas, the consensus was Wentz w/ Brady close behind. Than Wilson puts on a show on SNF, and the Eagles only managed 10 pts, and suddenly it shaped up to a 3 man race, w/ Brady taking a slight edge over Wentz. A lot of people point to Wentz not being the MVP favorite when he went down as proof he wasn't winning MVP, but that's a bit disingenuous. Sure, when Wentz literally went down he was not the MVP favorite, but had he not torn his ACL, or even if news did not come out until midweek and nobody suspected a thing? He 100% would have reclaimed his spot as MVP favorite heading into week 14. He had a 4 TD performance (through 3 quarters) en route to beating the 9-3 Rams, while Brady threw 2 INTs in a loss to Miami.

 

Brady went on in his final 3 games to post an underwhelming 90.9 passer rating, 712 yards, 5 TDs, and 2 INTs. The Eagles would go on to play 3 of the weaker pass defenses in the NFL (Giants, Raiders, Cowboys). Even if Wentz sits most of week 17, which I'm sure he would have, I think it's fair to assume he at least matches that efficiency and TD total. 

 

As for Wilson, it was all downhill after the SNF game as they lost 3 of their last 4 and missed the playoffs.

[Split the Sticks]

4 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

In thread that closed, it was asked if Wentz would have been the 2017 MVP if he never got hurt, and I think the answer is almost certainly. 

From about the quarter season mark to the SNF game between Seattle, Carson was the MVP favorite. Fans, media, vegas, the consensus was Wentz w/ Brady close behind. Than Wilson puts on a show on SNF, and the Eagles only managed 10 pts, and suddenly it shaped up to a 3 man race, w/ Brady taking a slight edge over Wentz. A lot of people point to Wentz not being the MVP favorite when he went down as proof he wasn't winning MVP, but that's a bit disingenuous. Sure, when Wentz literally went down he was not the MVP favorite, but had he not torn his ACL, or even if news did not come out until midweek and nobody suspected a thing? He 100% would have reclaimed his spot as MVP favorite heading into week 14. He had a 4 TD performance (through 3 quarters) en route to beating the 9-3 Rams, while Brady threw 2 INTs in a loss to Miami.

 

Brady went on in his final 3 games to post an underwhelming 90.9 passer rating, 712 yards, 5 TDs, and 2 INTs. The Eagles would go on to play 3 of the weaker pass defenses in the NFL (Giants, Raiders, Cowboys). Even if Wentz sits most of week 17, which I'm sure he would have, I think it's fair to assume he at least matches that efficiency and TD total. 

 

As for Wilson, it was all downhill after the SNF game as they lost 3 of their last 4 and missed the playoffs.

 

Does this mean Brady has to give the trophy back?        Gisele has it hidden

[Nabbs4u]

1 hour ago, Split the Sticks said:

 

Does this mean Brady has to give the trophy back?        Gisele has it hidden

No we didn't want that Trophy anyways or we too probably lose the SB. The other one was much sweeter.

[Hunter2_1]

I think Carson would be regarded even higher if he had a bad OL. He can escape pressure, sometimes miraculously (plenty of examples of that), he's deceptively fast, and can throw accurately on the run. He's not a Wilson or Rodgers, but somewhere in between. His OL, IMO, is the Iron Curtain when healthy. If he was forced to evade more often, he'd have a lot of those 'wow' moments and I personally think people would be higher on him as a result. 

Doesn't make him a better QB per se, but would highlight that strength of his more often. 

[Matts4313]

18 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Wentz has been very good

nope. try again

[SkippyX]

20 hours ago, rocky_rams said:

Not comparing him to Goff. Obviously he’s having a better year than Goff is. 

Doesnt take the point away that the eagles are having him manage games this year. 

I think he’s more talented than just a game manager 

With Peters injured every 5th play (and Big V being the worst) and no WRs, he can't really stretch the field as much as he wants.

Watch the Redskins game when he had Jackson(kinda) and Jeffrey(probably) healthy and tell me that was being a game manager.

BTW, Wentz's average intended air yards is higher that Watson, Rodgers, and Cousins ... you know, 3 of the top 7 MVP candidates.

[Matts4313]

3 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

With Peters injured every 5th play (and Big V being the worst) and no WRs, he can't really stretch the field as much as he wants.

Watch the Redskins game when he had Jackson(kinda) and Jeffrey(probably) healthy and tell me that was being a game manager.

BTW, Wentz's average intended air yards is higher that Watson, Rodgers, and Cousins ... you know, 3 of the top 7 MVP candidates.

This is actually surprising to me. Wentz was #1 in passes less than 5 yards last year. This year in the ~3 games I have watched him he still looks to be checking down a lot. I had no clue that he has been attempting deeper throws.

[SkippyX]

3 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

nope. try again

Your arguments are so weak. If Dak threw 2 game winning/tying passes that were perfectly placed and dropped we would never hear the end of it from you.

When it happens to Wentz you pretend he is not a very good QB.

• Wentz had a bad game against Dallas, and a bad 1st half against Atlanta. He's been pretty great the rest of the way.

Wentz has played like a 7-3 QB this year. Dak has played like a 6-4 QB.

• The teams Dak has beaten this year are 1-9, 2-8, 2-8, 2-8, 3-6-1, and 5-5 (with a decimated secondary)
• That's a strength of victory of .258 (15-44-1)
• That team would be 6-4 with Danny Dimes at QB  (with less pretty stats of course)
• No one gets more passes over the middle or in the flat to open receivers from a clean pocket than Dak. No one!
  • Anyone can make those throws.

Beating up Miami and the Giants is fun but it still only gets you a W against a weak sauce team. Beating up the Jets... (oops!)

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by SkippyX

[SkippyX]

If you think Wentz was bad this week, compare his rating to the other 9 Patriots games.

Compare how Dak does on Sunday.

[Matts4313]

11 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Your arguments are so weak. If Dak threw 2 game winning/tying passes that were perfectly placed and dropped we would never hear the end of it from you.

Nope. Try again. 

11 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

When it happens to Wentz you pretend he is not a very good QB.

• Wentz had a bad game against Dallas, and a bad 1st half against Atlanta. He's been pretty great the rest of the way.

Are you actually reading anything I write? Because you making strawmans is stupid.

11 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Wentz has played like a 7-3 QB this year. Dak has played like a 6-4 QB.

• The teams Dak has beaten this year are 1-9, 2-8, 2-8, 2-8, 3-6-1, and 5-5 (with a decimated secondary)
• That's a strength of victory of .258 (15-44-1)
• That team would be 6-4 with Danny Dimes at QB  (with less pretty stats of course)
• No one gets more passes over the middle or in the flat to open receivers from a clean pocket than Dak. No one!
  • Anyone can make those throws.

Beating up Miami and the Giants is fun but it still only gets you a W against a weak sauce team. Beating up the Jets... (oops!)

 

Reach. 

[SkippyX]

2 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

... Are you actually reading anything I write?...

Your position is that Wentz is not a good QB. You defend Dak to the point of vicious attacks on 'Zeke.

You are basing Wentz not being very good on what?

• His MVP level 2017?
• His 70 TDs to 18 picks since after his rookie year? (Dak is 65 to 30)
• His 98.9 rating since after his rookie year? (Dak is 95.2)
• His 7.7 yards per attempt last year? (Dak was 7.4)
• Agholor and Goedert dropping 3 catches for TDs? (these are hiding on YouTube or Google in case you can't find them)

 

I have been reading most of what you write on here the last year or so. You are not a real Cowboys fan. You are a Dak fan.

I have dealt with 100s of people like you over the years. (See Cult of McNabb for examples)

If you have to irrationally destroy Wentz and Zeke to make you feel better about Dak then you will do that.

What am I missing?

 

Your bashing of Wentz is fanatical (Dak is your hero) and shallow (zero analysis or context). It impresses no one.

[Matts4313]

7 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Your position is that Wentz is not a good QB. You defend Dak to the point of vicious attacks on 'Zeke.

This has never been my stance. Never. @RandyMossIsBoss and @Danger you all see my post and can confirm I have never, ever, said Wentz is a bad QB.

[Matts4313]

12 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Your position is that Wentz is not a good QB. You defend Dak to the point of vicious attacks on 'Zeke.

You are basing Wentz not being very good on what?

• His MVP level 2017?
• His 70 TDs to 18 picks since after his rookie year? (Dak is 65 to 30)
• His 98.9 rating since after his rookie year? (Dak is 95.2)
• His 7.7 yards per attempt last year? (Dak was 7.4)
• Agholor and Goedert dropping 3 catches for TDs? (these are hiding on YouTube or Google in case you can't find them)

 

I have been reading most of what you write on here the last year or so. You are not a real Cowboys fan. You are a Dak fan.

I have dealt with 100s of people like you over the years. (See Cult of McNabb for examples)

If you have to irrationally destroy Wentz and Zeke to make you feel better about Dak then you will do that.

What am I missing?

 

Your bashing of Wentz is fanatical (Dak is your hero) and shallow (zero analysis or context). It impresses no one.

This whole post annoys the ish out of me. I lobbied hard for Wentz... directly.. as in I spoke to McClay and Garrett... I support Dak because he deserves it. I have beeb here for 15 years +. Saying I am not a real cowboys fan..... wow

[Danger]

13 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

This has never been my stance. Never. @RandyMossIsBoss and @Danger you all see my post and can confirm I have never, ever, said Wentz is a bad QB.

Only in jest.

A lot of the fans here like to take you saying "Carson and Dak are the same tier" as "Carson sucks"

Before this year, I wouldn't have agreed with you in that regard. Dak has made the most of things so far though. The only silver lining I can take right now is that Carson's lows aren't as bad as Dak's lows.