Ask yourself this one question, If Tom Brady had Jason Garrett as a HC, would he still be the GOAT???

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Arguing that they should've kicked the FG because it was 4th and 7 neglects the fact that their play call on 3rd and 7 wasn't playing to go for it on 4th down in the first place. You can give yourself a better play to setup a 4th and short (or get the 1st with YAC) instead of trying to convert on 3rd and if you fail you kick the FG.

Either way you slice it, pretending like it wasn't a bad move to kick the FG, hope to get the ball back AND THEN hope to make an actual touchdown drive, against that defense, in those conditions, when you haven't done so all day, is just...kinda insane.

[SotanKing]

lmao no

[CP3MVP]

3 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

He has, what worse QBs?

Dak Prescott/Tony Romo are worse QBs than Tom Brady and Jason  has had 12+ win seasons with both players.

I think Brady would do OK with him. Tom Brady on the 2014 Cowboys would be a historically great offense.

Edited November 25, 2019 by CP3MVP

[Duff]

I love this question. Brady is a great QB but absolutely he would not be the GOAT without Bellicheat. There are many QB's more talented than Brady who did not have the benefit of the greatest coach of all time. I would love to see Brady go to another team after this year to see how goo he is actually. I think he is very accurate and excellent at processing but his lack of mobility would really hurt him in other offensive systems. The proof in all of this is how great many players perform while playing for New England and then when they go somewhere else you never hear of the players again. Heck Bellicheat even had WR's playing DB and Lacrosse Players playing WR. I am a Steelers fan and I can't tell you how many times we had superior talent when going up against the Patriots and some how someway the Patriots always found a way to beat us and often times in an embarrassing fashion. The one thing I will say that is beyond frustrating to me is the Patriots get away with a ton of holding by their O-line and I believe that is just because the Refs want to protect Brady. They also get away with a lot of pick plays by their wr's and a lot of non calls on their secondary whom is very handsy. You ever notice when the opposing team has a big play some borderline penalty happens. I see it all of the time with teams against the Patriots. The Cowboys had two phantom tripping calls yesterday one of which was at a crucial time during the game. The calls seem to almost always go their way. 

[childofpudding]

3 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

No.  You have to be a natural born citizen to be elected president.  Are you trying to say that The Clapper or Tom Brady were brought up as a poor Aboritine in the Australian outback? 

In my extremely analogous hypothetical, his mother is an Aborigine but his father was an American military member deployed overseas.

[childofpudding]

8 minutes ago, Duff said:

I love this question. Brady is a great QB but absolutely he would not be the GOAT without Bellicheat. There are many QB's more talented than Brady who did not have the benefit of the greatest coach of all time. I would love to see Brady go to another team after this year to see how goo he is actually. I think he is very accurate and excellent at processing but his lack of mobility would really hurt him in other offensive systems. The proof in all of this is how great many players perform while playing for New England and then when they go somewhere else you never hear of the players again. Heck Bellicheat even had WR's playing DB and Lacrosse Players playing WR. I am a Steelers fan and I can't tell you how many times we had superior talent when going up against the Patriots and some how someway the Patriots always found a way to beat us and often times in an embarrassing fashion. The one thing I will say that is beyond frustrating to me is the Patriots get away with a ton of holding by their O-line and I believe that is just because the Refs want to protect Brady. They also get away with a lot of pick plays by their wr's and a lot of non calls on their secondary whom is very handsy. You ever notice when the opposing team has a big play some borderline penalty happens. I see it all of the time with teams against the Patriots. The Cowboys had two phantom tripping calls yesterday one of which was at a crucial time during the game. The calls seem to almost always go their way. 

 

8 minutes ago, Duff said:

I love this question. Brady is a great QB but absolutely he would not be the GOAT without Bellicheat.

 

8 minutes ago, Duff said:

Bellicheat

 

[Duff]

Okay just in todays NFL I will list better QB's than Brady.

1. Drew Brees

2. Aaron Rogers

3. Russell Wilson

* Maybe Big Ben if he had the coaching Brady had early on. Ben is a better athlete but he probably isn't as accurate as Brady so it would have been interesting to see Ben in that system. 

Another proof it is more the system than the player is the year Brady went down you guys had a QB that came in and played pretty well. They traded him after the season and he never really did anything after that. Jacob Brisset and Pretty boy from SF were developed under Bellicheat and have gone on to be starters so Bellicheat knows how to develop QB's I will give him that. But you can not tell me Brady has benefited significantly from Bellicheats coaching. Could you imagine Brees, Rogers or Wilson in that system.

 

[mission27]

2 hours ago, Elky said:

Yes, we had great defenses during our 1st 3 Super Bowls. However, from 05-13ish we went through a defensive dark ages where crappy quarterbacks would look like Joe Montana and easily convert 3rd and longs.

Honestly until last season the defense was a weak spot

Seahawks Falcons and second Eagles super bowl the defenses were very vulnerable and Brady and co put up all time offensive performances to win the first two and keep the Eagles one close 

Its definitely flipped over the last two years with the re emergence of a dominant D and loss of Dola, Cooks, Hogan, Gronk, Gordon, Lewis, etc.

[August4th]

I think topics like this is the biggest reason why I can't wait for these two to retire

[Calvert28]

2 hours ago, Elky said:

The 2011 squad was the worst defense to ever reach the Super Bowl. We generated a lot of turnovers, yes, but good God almighty my grandmother's corpse could have thrown on us that season.

They may have been the worst Pat's defense but certainly not the worst of all time of SB contenders. Even still they performed better then ours did last night. 

[The Hitch]

7 hours ago, Elky said:

Well he's definitely carrying the offense. Even if he's taken a backseat to the defense and special teams, it's about time considering how many poor defenses Brady had to compensate throughout his career.

How many? As far as i can see all of NE's SB wins have come with good defenses.  
And through his whole career Brady has only had a defense outside of the top 10 in points, twice. In Yards its weaker most years, but how many of Brady's 16 years did he actually have to put up points on every drive to win games because the defense was so bad? 1? 

[SBLIII]

3 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

8 years with defenses that were if anything good to great. I cant think of a time where the Pat's had a poor defense in the BB era unless they were riddled with injuries. 

Maybe you can correct me on that. 

most defenses post 2004 were average. 2006 at the top of them spectrum, 2011 and 2017 at the bottom. But overall we can talk about 13 years of complimentary average defense.

There were zero elite defenses during that time.

[SBLIII]

3 minutes ago, The Hitch said:

How many? As far as i can see all of NE's SB wins have come with good defenses.  
And through his whole career Brady has only had a defense outside of the top 10 in points, twice. In Yards its weaker most years, but how many of Brady's 16 years did he actually have to put up points on every drive to win games because the defense was so bad? 1? 

2014, 2016 and 2018 were all average or above average defenses. No SBs were won with bad defenses but also none with great defenses.

It was simply a matter of average defense and great offense equals success.

[SBLIII]

59 minutes ago, Duff said:

Okay just in todays NFL I will list better QB's than Brady.

1. Drew Brees

2. Aaron Rogers

3. Russell Wilson

* Maybe Big Ben if he had the coaching Brady had early on. Ben is a better athlete but he probably isn't as accurate as Brady so it would have been interesting to see Ben in that system. 

Another proof it is more the system than the player is the year Brady went down you guys had a QB that came in and played pretty well. They traded him after the season and he never really did anything after that. Jacob Brisset and Pretty boy from SF were developed under Bellicheat and have gone on to be starters so Bellicheat knows how to develop QB's I will give him that. But you can not tell me Brady has benefited significantly from Bellicheats coaching. Could you imagine Brees, Rogers or Wilson in that system.

 

There is no system.

[SBLIII]

3 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

The Pat's are known for the defenses that led them to their SB victories. I figured any Pat's fan would know that considering BB is known as a defensive master mind that perfected his bend but dont break defense. 

Richard Seymour, Ty Law, Asante Samuel, Vince Wilfork, Teddy Bruschi, Rodney Harrison, I can roll off dozens of names off the top of my head that the Pat's defense has produced with successful results. Because that is the biggest factor that their known for, not their offenses. Besides Brady, Gronk, Moss, and maybe Edelman, most of their other names are pretty forgettable.

That's basically proving everyone's point. You just listed players that are now 45+ years old and played 15 years ago. It has been that long since NE formed its last dominant unit.