Jakuvious Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 10 hours ago, Deadpulse said: Really liked it. Florence Pugh was bae before and continues to be bae now. Loved the entire final act and how it brought Natasha full circle. During her interrogation of Dreykov I kept thinking back to past scenes like her opening scene in Avengers and the scene with Loki in the hulk cage or her confrontation with Pierce in Winter Soldier. I loved that she goaded him into violence for a reason. So damn good that entire scene. It made me want more Natasha in solo affair but sad that we wont get it.  Also LOL at all the people who are upset by the Taskmaster reveal like you gave an ISH about him prior to this flick. Dude is a D level mercenary type character in the comics that almost never gets used with hardly any backstory at all. I buy 10-20 comics weekly and could care less that they drastically changed the character. They used him in this film EXACTLY how they use him in the comics, which is a blunt object in front of the real threat. Taskmaster was one of the few things that had me really excited about this movie, beforehand. Granted, I don't read many Marvel comics (as far as comics goes, I've always been more of a DC guy), but I've always loved the concept. Makes for some potentially amazing action scenes (and did in spots in this one.) Spoiler Though, I'm probably not in the group of people you're talking about, I suppose. Tony versus Antonia matters little to me. I'm not upset as much as...skeptical. I didn't like the character being voiceless the entire movie. I'm guessing that was to allow for the surprise reveal. I'm at least relieved they didn't kill Taskmaster off. Thought for sure that was going to happen with how Marvel has handled villains historically. But mostly I just found the explanation of the powers to be...unclear and unsatisfying. Maybe I missed something, but it was really unclear to me what portion of the ability in the movie was tech based and part of the Red Room, and what portion of it was actual powers. From the flash drive thingy they stuck in the back of the helmet early on, I figured it was tech based, and that would bother me more than anything else.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: Taskmaster isn't a mindless drone trotted out for special missions though. He's a lone wolf mercenary that has a pretty brash personality. He definitely isnt that. In fact, he is used mostly as the guy hired by pretty much every Marvel criminal organization to train their grunts. He is rarely a lone wolf on the prowl. 4 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: In the last few years in particularly he's been featured in more media other than comics. Wouldn't say he's a D level villain like The Shocker or something. Other media like in the PS4 Spiderman game where he is literally just a mini game that you beat the ish out of time and again? Or the Ultimate Spiderman animated show where he serves as the easy mode villain? He is a D level villain in every adaptation. If anything, the version we see in Black Widow elevates the character to heights we haven't seen anywhere else. 8 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: Just seemed like the reason why Taskmaster was in the film in the first place was more so as an afterthought. Like they all sat down and said they needed a reason for why Natasha had this dark/tragic history in that's been alluded to for a while now in the MCU, and it has to tie into Budapest. They do the setup of how she got to SHIELD by killing the daughter for the Russian boss hog, and then just have the little girl come back as Taskmaster. Felt flimsy, and like it could have been anyone. Taskmaster is more so an easter egg in this regard. And I guess it doesn't help that the abilities aren't the person's, but a result of a tech suit. I think you are trying to justify your knee jerk reaction here. They needed a reason for her tragic history so they shoehorned a storyline in? First of all, Loki mentions Dreykov's daughter to Natasha in Avengers way back in 2012. This was ALWAYS the story. The Taskmaster twist was perfect in that they took a character that, again, no one gave an ish about and made their backstory actually relevant to the deep lore of the MCU. That alone is a huge feat. Then we get a villain who is a great foil to Natasha both on and off the battlefield, has the classic created by the hero trope with a twist, and really cements Dreykov as a bastard. She was used very well throughout the film and it fit extremely well that she was a another victim of the Red Room. Beats the comic backstory for Taskmaster by a mile. It's why no one gives an ish about him in the comics. He isnt connected to anything. He's just there and has this photographic mimic ability that never really helps him win fights. You can not like the characterization. That fine, you can have your opinion. However to suggest that it's bad or does a disservice to the character is just categorically wrong. This is the most prominent role in the characters history. The characters only other claim to fame is the be the guy who trained more popular characters. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Anyway, this was one of the MCU movies I was least excited for going into it, and I was pleasantly surprised. Had far more that I enjoyed than I expected. Spoiler Loved Florence Pugh's character, and glad it looks like she's sticking around. Both the parents were solid as well. Was relieved that Taskmaster survived, though was iffy on the presentation at times. The humor was in odd places at times, for me, Black Widow should've definitely died like 13 times throughout the movie, and I thought there were a few odd red herring/Chekhov's gun type moments (me and my girlfriend kept waiting for something to come out of Florence Pugh's pockets, and the whistle at Black Widow's grave terrified me that she was going to show up and whistle back somehow. I also was waiting for her friend to reference Stark or something about money, any information about what happened with Hawkeye at Budapest, etc.) But the action sequences were solid, it was a pretty fitting end note for the character, I love some of the things it released into the Marvel world that can come back (Taskmaster, Red Guardian, the Widows, Black Widow's sister, etc.), and the post-credits scene was a pretty awesome sign, and probably sold a crap ton of Disney+ subscriptions for them.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Deadpulse said: He definitely isnt that. In fact, he is used mostly as the guy hired by pretty much every Marvel criminal organization to train their grunts. He is rarely a lone wolf on the prowl. Other media like in the PS4 Spiderman game where he is literally just a mini game that you beat the ish out of time and again? Or the Ultimate Spiderman animated show where he serves as the easy mode villain? He is a D level villain in every adaptation. If anything, the version we see in Black Widow elevates the character to heights we haven't seen anywhere else. I think you are trying to justify your knee jerk reaction here. They needed a reason for her tragic history so they shoehorned a storyline in? First of all, Loki mentions Dreykov's daughter to Natasha in Avengers way back in 2012. This was ALWAYS the story. The Taskmaster twist was perfect in that they took a character that, again, no one gave an ish about and made their backstory actually relevant to the deep lore of the MCU. That alone is a huge feat. Then we get a villain who is a great foil to Natasha both on and off the battlefield, has the classic created by the hero trope with a twist, and really cements Dreykov as a bastard. She was used very well throughout the film and it fit extremely well that she was a another victim of the Red Room. Beats the comic backstory for Taskmaster by a mile. It's why no one gives an ish about him in the comics. He isnt connected to anything. He's just there and has this photographic mimic ability that never really helps him win fights. You can not like the characterization. That fine, you can have your opinion. However to suggest that it's bad or does a disservice to the character is just categorically wrong. This is the most prominent role in the characters history. The characters only other claim to fame is the be the guy who trained more popular characters. - But he's not a mindless drone like The Destroyer or DC's Amazo to be utilized like muscle like I said. And we essentially already had that in the MCU with Winter Solider anyway. He's a lone wolf in the sense that he works for himself. He's a businessman. - Or like in Marvel vs. Capcom 3, Lego Avengers, or Marvel Heroes where you get to be him. He's been in a lot of games. Yes other media where he's at the very least featured. Can't say the same for many, many other Marvel villains. - Yeah Dreykov's daughter was mentioned in Avengers. And??? Doesn't mean it had to be Taskmaster as a mindless drone for it all tie-in. Again, it could have been anybody. This film isn't the most prominent part of the character's history that's laughable. Really? As a mindless drone that doesn't talk??? Read Taskmaster: Unthinkable. Read the 2002 miniseries. Read his new mini series. There is way more characterization than what you're comparing to in this MCU iteration. Maybe you didn't give a **** about Taskmaster, but your opinion doesn't represent everyone else's like you're trying to pass it off as. Hell go on any YouTube video now and the miles of comments related to Taskmaster mostly are how disappointed they are with what they got. Edited July 12, 2021 by TecmoSuperJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 19 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: - But he's not a mindless drone like The Destroyer or DC's Amazo to be utilized like muscle like I said. And we essentially already had that in the MCU with Winter Solider anyway. He's a lone wolf in the sense that he works for himself. He's a businessman. - Yes other media where he's at the very least featured. Can't say the same for many, many other Marvel villains. - Yeah Dreykov's daughter was mentioned in Avengers. And??? Doesn't mean it had to be Taskmaster as a mindless drone for it all tie-in. Again, it could have been anybody. This film isn't the most prominent part of the character's history that's laughable. Really? As a mindless drone that doesn't talk??? Read Taskmaster: Unthinkable. Read the 2002 miniseries. Read his new mini series. There is way more characterization than what you're comparing to in this MCU iteration. Maybe you didn't give a **** about Taskmaster, but your opinion doesn't represent everyone else's like you're trying to pass it off as. Hell go on any YouTube video now and the miles of comments related to Taskmaster are how disappointed they are with what they got. oh please, every villain has their own little mini-series. Iron Man had many many on-goings prior to 2008 but it didnt mean he was a popular character. You are misinterpreting what I meant by this iteration being the most prominent role. Sure, he has a few books that delve into him as a character. Having characterization does not equal prominence. This versions backstory is HEAVILY and intrinsically linked to the MCU's bones. Clint Barton, Natasha, Maria Hill, and Nick Fury all had a hand in her origin as Taskmaster. THAT is prominence. She was the FEATURED villain in a movie in which her character's backstory informs on major established players in the MCU. Taskmaster is NEVER the featured villain in the comics, just a hired hand or again, the guy who trained better characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Just now, Deadpulse said: oh please, every villain has their own little mini-series. Iron Man had many many on-goings prior to 2008 but it didnt mean he was a popular character. You are misinterpreting what I meant by this iteration being the most prominent role. Sure, he has a few books that delve into him as a character. Having characterization does not equal prominence. This versions backstory is HEAVILY and intrinsically linked to the MCU's bones. Clint Barton, Natasha, Maria Hill, and Nick Fury all had a hand in her origin as Taskmaster. THAT is prominence. She was the FEATURED villain in a movie in which her character's backstory informs on major established players in the MCU. Taskmaster is NEVER the featured villain in the comics, just a hired hand. Ok??? The point that it's an attempt to give actual dimension to a character. He's not the most popular Marvel character, but still popular enough that folks know what the spirit of the character is supposed to entail, and it isn't a mind-controlled golem (which we already had in the MCU). That is why there is still pushback from folks in the first place that are disappointed with his characterization. Because there wasn't this type of blowback from someone like how Mar Vell was reimagined. Hell, even that was better as a reimagining in the Captain Marvel movie from the original source material compared to Taskmaster in the Black Widow movie. Things can change, and moving forward she can have more dimension, but in this film as it is now, Taskmaster essentially has zero. Her existence helps flesh out other characters like you mentioned, not herself though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Now that I think of it, something that would have been an interesting deviation would have been if Nat uses the chemical smoke to help cure Taskmaster, and it doesn't work. Then Taskmaster speaks up and says something along the lines of "I'm not mind controlled. I just want to kill you". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 47 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: there wasn't this type of blowback from someone like how Mar Vell was reimagined. That's not a fair analogy. While I still maintain Taskmaster is a D level mercenary villain, Mar Vell hasnt even been used in the comics in decades. The reason there is pushback is because the marketing pushed Taskmaster. Mar Vell wasn't even in the trailers. Annette Bening only shows up as the Supreme Intelligence. No one is upset because they care so much about Taskmaster the character. Marvel Comics barely cares about Taskmaster the character. It's why they let writers use him as a punching bag and stick him in meaningless storylines or as a plot device for henchman training. The trailers gave people certain expectations of Taskmaster and the movie flipped those expectations on their heads. That's why people are upset. They wanted one thing, felt like they were promised it, and then were unhappy that they didnt get it despite not being promised anything. Im not saying this is you, but those youtube videos you were referencing? Those people just need everything to fit into a box of their design and as soon as something deviates away from it, warranted or not, they get upset. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) I will give the movie another watch, which I'm actually looking forward to. The Taskmaster issue doesn't ruin the film for me like what happened in Iron Man 3, since Taskmaster even from the beginning of the movie wasn't pushed as the big bad. I've made peace with what Black Widow is, instead of the potential it had to be. I do Wonder if Natasha will make a cameo via the arena of the multiverse which is where the MCU is heading. And I think she's at least in one episode of What If. Edited July 12, 2021 by TecmoSuperJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcFinest9erFan Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 This might be in the bottom Three of All Marvel movies for me. I liked how it started out fast but imo this film fizzles about half way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gnat Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Well, I wouldn't say it's bottom 3 for me, probably Top 15, which is good, my bottom three are probably The Incredible Hulk, Thor: The Dark World and Captain America: The First Avenger, and it's definitely a lot better than those. It reminded me of a Bond movie. The plot is pretty simple, but it couldn't have been more. If it was more, I don't care that the Avengers are on the out, Captain America would have shown up, because that's who he is. I think it rounded at Natasha's character arc really well. I wouldn't have minded skipping out on Taskmaster completely for the movie, but even with that character being used the way it was, it wasn't bad. Plus Florence Pugh was so good, and I'm excited to see more of Yelena in the MCU. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 I enjoyed the movie a lot, especially the first two acts, but you can count me in on the group that viewed Taskmaster as a disappointment. Outside of the first fight, the character didn't really do anything. The smoke shouldn't have worked. The rest of the story worked but overall it still felt underwhelming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) On 7/11/2021 at 11:47 PM, TecmoSuperJoe said: The Taskmaster issue doesn't ruin the film for me like what happened in Iron Man 3, I thought the Mandarin was one of the best parts of IM3 Edited July 13, 2021 by Malfatron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingseanjohn Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 My thoughts as I watch: I didn't realize that this takes place after Civil War. Too bad it wasn't released in 2017 between that and Infinity War when I cared more about the character. Apparently Natasha is a super soldier? The hits and falls she took with no injury/consequence leaves no other explanation. Only 45min or so in and this feels like a lesser Mission Impossible. Many basic rules of writing/film making broken. Granted that's common, but not really that common in Marvel movies. Where did Red Guardian get the suit from? Melina just had it waiting for him there? The twist, if you'd call it that, wasn't really surprising to me. With what was said and then she's just laying there? The smell of his pheromones.... Seriously? How in the world does that go with anything that has been setup already? I did like the callback to her taking a beating as a means of interrogating someone. David Harbour is probably the best thing about the movie. I enjoyed the jokes about Natasha's posing, granted it was a tad overused. Again, apparently everyone is a super soldier because they can land on the ground with a half open parachute from way up and immediately fight with zero pain/injury. How did General Ross find her AND get to her, especially in Russia. That end credits scene though.... Guessing Yelena will be a/the villain in the Hawkeye show later this year. Taskmaster was incredibly disappointing and basically a throwaway villain. Absolutely hate what they did with the character. Huge miss. Also, did I miss where they said Taskmaster was a super solider? Because the fight vs Red Guardian and other stuff leaves no other explanation. It'll be interesting to see if they use the red vials later. Can it be used to break Wanda's spells or is it just for Widows mind control and never going to be mentioned again? Overall, I wouldn't call it Dark World bad. But I'd probably put it a step above Captain Marvel, which isn't great and still bottom tier Marvel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 5 hours ago, kingseanjohn said: Apparently Natasha is a super soldier? The hits and falls she took with no injury/consequence leaves no other explanation.  5 hours ago, kingseanjohn said: Again, apparently everyone is a super soldier because they can land on the ground with a half open parachute from way up and immediately fight with zero pain/injury. This happens all over the MCU, you kinda just have to accept it.  5 hours ago, kingseanjohn said: Where did Red Guardian get the suit from? Melina just had it waiting for him there? This isnt a leap for me. She clearly had fond memories of her "family" in Ohio. She kept the photo album, she immediately sided with them against high odds.  5 hours ago, kingseanjohn said: The smell of his pheromones.... Seriously? How in the world does that go with anything that has been setup already? I mean this is the real world lamens definition: a chemical substance produced and released into the environment by an animal, especially a mammal or an insect, affecting the behavior or physiology of others of its species. Add some MCU science to that and it makes plenty of sense to me.  5 hours ago, kingseanjohn said: How did General Ross find her AND get to her, especially in Russia. IIRC they signaled him as a back up plan before they got taken to the red room  5 hours ago, kingseanjohn said: Taskmaster was incredibly disappointing and basically a throwaway villain. Absolutely hate what they did with the character. Huge miss. You can see my posts on this, but he has ALWAYS been a throwaway character. What they did was make her relevant to the story.  5 hours ago, kingseanjohn said: It'll be interesting to see if they use the red vials later. Can it be used to break Wanda's spells or is it just for Widows mind control and never going to be mentioned again? It struck me as a very specific antidote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.