oldman9er Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 So why are we so afraid to play more press and press bail? Have we not seen that this offense is usually capable of scoring with KIttle, Sanders, and Deebo on the field? Why does Salad insist on playing scared, while knowing we have usual terrors of Bosa, AA, and Buck? I know it sucks that we don't get more Dee Ford and backups lost on IR.. but we can see what playing soft has gotten us in these losses. Play to WIN. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 GOOD NEWS on both, it seems: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 No expectations of Ford anyway, but it would obviously be swell to get Tartt back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Forge said: I mean, nobody commented on the team defense as a whole. The comments were directed at Harris...who once again missed a huge tackle, as you alluded to. He's not as good in coverage as Moore, doesn't have the range. The one thing that he would supposedly have on Moore is that Moore isn't a very good tackler, but spoiler alert, Harris isn't a good tackler either. I don't disagree with you about Moore's problems - we have commented on them on the podcast during the first two weeks when he played. So if that is going to be the case, give me the guy that has the better range, the coverage ability because I'm going to suffer through the poor tackling either way. This isn't a new thing for Harris...I believe he had the 4th most missed tackles last year on the team despite only starting 5 games. All I've seen after the loss is how garbage the defense has been the last two weeks. Not necessarily in this thread in particular but in the Falcons gameday thread, other forums and on YT alot of The Faithful have kinda turned on the defense from what I've been reading. I just think that's low-hanging fruit w/o really analyzing what is the culprit. As far as Harris, I think it simply comes down to he's more of the traditional SS-type than Moore or Ward. I think that his physicality is needed in and around the box. He's more akin to Tartt physically, than either Moore or Ward. We can harp on Harris for the missed tackles...and he's had his share in the pass game. But I thought he was very good against the run versus the Falcons and had some very physical stops in and around the LOS that helped bottle up their run game. I just don't believe either Ward or Moore play with nearly the same physicality to be as effective in that area. So while you may be right in terms of wanting to be better from a coverage standpoint, if the QB is getting the ball out in less than 2.44 seconds on average, how much coverage are we really sacrificing?? Wasn't like we getting beat deep or giving huge chunk plays in the middle of the field. I'm with J, in that I felt our communication and are sight adjustments just were not as seamless as it was with Tartt (and then Sherman) gone, so we're just a second off in diagnosing certain keys and getting all the guys to see the same thing. Tartt, Williams and Sherm were all playing at a very high level and all seemed to be in lock-step....complete unison in terms of their reads, communicating what they see, making adjustments and altering coverages. Can't expect that to be the case if you take one of them out of the equation. Eliminate all three and well, that's pretty much and entirely different secondary so expecting similar results I think is not being realistic. Edited December 18, 2019 by 757-NINER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, 757-NINER said: As far as Harris, I think it simply comes down to he's more of the traditional SS-type than Moore or Ward. I think that his physicality is needed in and around the box. He's more akin to Tartt physically, than either Moore or Ward. We can harp on Harris for the missed tackles...and he's had his share in the pass game. But I thought he was very good against the run versus the Falcons and had some very physical stops in and around the LOS that helped bottle up their run game. I just don't believe either Ward or Moore play with nearly the same physicality to be as effective in that area. So while you may be right in terms of wanting to be better from a coverage standpoint, if the QB is getting the ball out in less than 2.44 seconds on average, how much coverage are we really sacrificing?? Wasn't like we getting beat deep or giving huge chunk plays in the middle of the field. These are fair points, but you've been a little hot and cold with harris, if we are being honest here. You liked him after Baltimore and wanted to give him another shot because he made one really good play, while I saw him miss 15 more. Then after the saints you said that he was bad and that we needed to do something about it. Now you are saying he was improved, which I generally agree with. He was certainly better against the falcons, he started the game off with a good form tackle and his run support wasn't horrible. He flowed to the ball and wasn't afraid to stick his nose in there. as forge said, it definitely felt like the falcons were trying to get the ball in space to playmakers on whatever side of the field he was on. I think they were smart to move julio over towards harris a few times and and I think the lined julio up on the strong side and got the ball in his hands quickly trying to get some yac in front of harris. I mean, the film he showed against the saints was so so so bad that you have to think every team is going to target him from now on. my point is that we should have known this and yet we did nothing about it. I wanted to run cover 2 to allow the corners to be more aggressive underneath for the quicker routes and the quicker throws. You cant run cover 2 if you don't trust your S in coverage. Moore should have been brought in on passing situations. our cover three scheme is designed to protect the deep part of the field with your corners, which allows one S to roam free and make plays. It does a poor job of covering the underneath stuff because CBs have to worry about getting beat deep. So, when teams are clearly working the quick game, we need to adjust and play more press with S help over the top. Cover 2 would have let Mosely sit on routes a little better and would have been a nice wrinkle. yet, we just ran 'our scheme' and we got burned repeatedly. At the very least, I wanted moore to get 20 something snaps to help our coaches get some film on him to better evaluate the 'moore vs harris' debate, while also helping our young third round pick get moore experience (pun intended). Tartt is locked up, but ward is a free agent. Its very possible we wont re-sign him (I do think he is back, but you never know) or that he could become unavailable to us on this playoff run (knock on wood). Its important to continue to give moore looks so that we can know if he has progressed since early in the year. The experience should be good for him, yet we gave him one freaking snap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 10 hours ago, N4L said: These are fair points, but you've been a little hot and cold with harris, if we are being honest here. You liked him after Baltimore and wanted to give him another shot because he made one really good play, while I saw him miss 15 more. Then after the saints you said that he was bad and that we needed to do something about it. Now you are saying he was improved, which I generally agree with. He was certainly better against the falcons, he started the game off with a good form tackle and his run support wasn't horrible. He flowed to the ball and wasn't afraid to stick his nose in there. as forge said, it definitely felt like the falcons were trying to get the ball in space to playmakers on whatever side of the field he was on. I think they were smart to move julio over towards harris a few times and and I think the lined julio up on the strong side and got the ball in his hands quickly trying to get some yac in front of harris. I mean, the film he showed against the saints was so so so bad that you have to think every team is going to target him from now on. my point is that we should have known this and yet we did nothing about it. I wanted to run cover 2 to allow the corners to be more aggressive underneath for the quicker routes and the quicker throws. You cant run cover 2 if you don't trust your S in coverage. Moore should have been brought in on passing situations. our cover three scheme is designed to protect the deep part of the field with your corners, which allows one S to roam free and make plays. It does a poor job of covering the underneath stuff because CBs have to worry about getting beat deep. So, when teams are clearly working the quick game, we need to adjust and play more press with S help over the top. Cover 2 would have let Mosely sit on routes a little better and would have been a nice wrinkle. yet, we just ran 'our scheme' and we got burned repeatedly. At the very least, I wanted moore to get 20 something snaps to help our coaches get some film on him to better evaluate the 'moore vs harris' debate, while also helping our young third round pick get moore experience (pun intended). Tartt is locked up, but ward is a free agent. Its very possible we wont re-sign him (I do think he is back, but you never know) or that he could become unavailable to us on this playoff run (knock on wood). Its important to continue to give moore looks so that we can know if he has progressed since early in the year. The experience should be good for him, yet we gave him one freaking snap. I've been hot and cold because his play has been hot and cold. I praise players when they're play warrants it and I critique them when its justified. That goes for all players.... I can understand wanting Moore to get some run. I expected as much. I'm just not of the belief that one guy is a clear advantage over the other. Really depends on the gameplan involved. If you want more range and speed on the field, Moore is probably the guy. If you want more physicality and stoutness in run support, I believe Harris is better suited. But you're going to take your lumps with either guy in there, as they're both susceptible to giving up a play or two. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXFlyteXx Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 14 hours ago, oldman9er said: So why are we so afraid to play more press and press bail? Have we not seen that this offense is usually capable of scoring with KIttle, Sanders, and Deebo on the field? Why does Salad insist on playing scared, while knowing we have usual terrors of Bosa, AA, and Buck? I know it sucks that we don't get more Dee Ford and backups lost on IR.. but we can see what playing soft has gotten us in these losses. Play to WIN. If we are talking about just the Atl. game I would say we couldn't run man press without Sherm and Tartt back there. I like Moseley but I would prefer someone behind him other than Harris. And pressing Julio hasn't worked for any CB. Now if we have the whole secondary at our disposal I would love to see them play tight and aggressive. Let the D-line force the issue and let the secondary feast on the pressured throws. Playing against LA and Seattle the next two weeks I would like to see them play more aggressively especially against the Rams weak O-line. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, xXFlyteXx said: And pressing Julio hasn't worked for any CB. Now if we have the whole secondary at our disposal I would love to see them play tight and aggressive. Is why I included press bail. No, I agree that pressing JJ is quite an ask, but to play so far off is just pathetic against a QB that is desperate to quick throw us to negate our pass rush. At least playing more aggressively (tighter) gives us a chance. Playing off like that is surrendering and hoping they have a remarkable mistake. What I saw out there was a DC playing scared, and getting outwitted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXFlyteXx Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, oldman9er said: Is why I included press bail. No, I agree that pressing JJ is quite an ask, but to play so far off is just pathetic against a QB that is desperate to quick throw us to negate our pass rush. At least playing more aggressively (tighter) gives us a chance. Playing off like that is surrendering and hoping they have a remarkable mistake. What I saw out there was a DC playing scared, and getting outwitted. I agree with you and if we had a healthy secondary I would like to believe we would have seen it. I think Saleh did play a prevent you from winning defense at the end. I just think he wasn't confident in the secondary at that point. And we were getting no pressure on Ryan at all really. So it was lose lose and lose really. Edited December 18, 2019 by xXFlyteXx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 So all season fans have went after Tartt for not sticking out or flashing, but hope he gets his proper appreciation now. Tartt has always been a good player, just can never stay healthy. But him being as disciplined as he is and being a sure tackler with good instincts helps the back end out so much. Ward has been playing at a Pro Bowl level and is the superior talent, but Tartt has a lot of use and there is a big drop off when he is not on the field. Hoping he is able to go this week. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, xXFlyteXx said: If we are talking about just the Atl. game I would say we couldn't run man press without Sherm and Tartt back there. I like Moseley but I would prefer someone behind him other than Harris. And pressing Julio hasn't worked for any CB. Now if we have the whole secondary at our disposal I would love to see them play tight and aggressive. Let the D-line force the issue and let the secondary feast on the pressured throws. Playing against LA and Seattle the next two weeks I would like to see them play more aggressively especially against the Rams weak O-line. And I think we will be more agressive in coverage against both, seeing as neither team possess that dominant WR1 type like the Saints and Falcons. I doubt we play alot of man against Seattle though, as we have to try and contain Wilson. Edited December 18, 2019 by 757-NINER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Doesn't look like he's a go for this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinerNation21 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 22 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Doesn't look like he's a go for this week. It would be great to have him back for this weekend, but it's more important that he's ready to go for week 17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Just now, NinerNation21 said: It would be great to have him back for this weekend, but it's more important that he's ready to go for week 17. True, but if we don't win this week, week 17 may not matter so much... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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