holyghost Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, SilverNBlackFan said: You do whatever is best for Derwin James, whether he feels most comfortable as a safety or as a defensive chess piece. I like his skillet, but Obi wasn't drafted by Gruden so he will have to get in where he fits in. Yes. Can the 6'4" Obi play corner? Does he actually have any of those skills? All secondary concerns. I would think James will beat him out for a starting spot handily, so Obi goes wherever he goes after that. TE coverage specialist? Nickel cover LB? ST player? Who among us knows, because we have seen so little of what he might have as far as a skillset. On top of that, late last season when there was mention of the young guys not "wanting it enough" - in regards to getting over injury and on the field, that had to be directly pointed at Melifonwu. So all in all, if we draft James who really cares what happens with Melifonwu? Let him use whatever he has to earn whatever he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I'm sorry, but Derwin James (and Minkah Fitzpatrick, for that matter) are getting way overhyped. There's something about the safety position that makes people think they can seamlessly transition to the NFL and seemingly play any position at a high level. How was Jamie Collins' first year, or Jamal Adams, or Jabrill Peppers, or go back to Michael Huff -- remember him? Safety is a tough position to transition to in the NFL. Even if a player ends up being good, that first year is usually filled with growing pains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Rich7sena said: I'm sorry, but Derwin James (and Minkah Fitzpatrick, for that matter) are getting way overhyped. There's something about the safety position that makes people think they can seamlessly transition to the NFL and seemingly play any position at a high level. How was Jamie Collins' first year, or Jamal Adams, or Jabrill Peppers, or go back to Michael Huff -- remember him? Safety is a tough position to transition to in the NFL. Even if a player ends up being good, that first year is usually filled with growing pains. And even with that first year learning curve they BOTH deserve to be getting top 20 consideration. #NotHotTake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, NightTrainLane said: And even with that first year learning curve they BOTH deserve to be getting top 20 consideration. #NotHotTake Top 20 for sure, but both are getting top 10 hype. Considering the needs on the team, I wouldn't be too excited taking another safety at 10 or even in a trade back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: Top 20 for sure, but both are getting top 10 hype. Considering the needs on the team, I wouldn't be too excited taking another safety at 10 or even in a trade back. Fitz deserves top 12 as well. Only said 20 because I had to lump him in with James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, NightTrainLane said: Fitz deserves top 12 as well. Only said 20 because I had to lump him in with James. I'm lower on Fitz than most. I think he's safe player: a solid double. But I don't think he changes the complexion of a defense. Plus, the team already has two promising young safeties. If I'm drafting player on top of player at a position, I'm not doing it at safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Rich7sena said: I'm lower on Fitz than most. I think he's safe player: a solid double. But I don't think he changes the complexion of a defense. Plus, the team already has two promising young safeties. If I'm drafting player on top of player at a position, I'm not doing it at safety. You keep bringing it back to what we should do but I was talking about his overall standing in the draft big board. Of course, different teams have different needs. I was talking about in general. With that said, if I was making a Big Board for us he'd still be top 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, NightTrainLane said: You keep bringing it back to what we should do but I was talking about his overall standing in the draft big board. Of course, different teams have different needs. I was talking about in general. With that said, if I was making a Big Board for us he'd still be top 12. Well, this is the Raiders board. I'm lower on Fitzpatrick and James both in a vacuum and for the Raiders. I'm lower on them because of positional value and my "tape" evaluations are also lower than consensus. I'm lower on them for the Raiders because I believe in both Joseph and Melifonwu as more than competent starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 29 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: Well, this is the Raiders board. I'm lower on Fitzpatrick and James both in a vacuum and for the Raiders. I'm lower on them because of positional value and my "tape" evaluations are also lower than consensus. I'm lower on them for the Raiders because I believe in both Joseph and Melifonwu as more than competent starters. Go back to the first post I replied to. It wasn't directed strictly to Raider needs. But fair enough. We definitely disagree. I agree with the majority of draft pundits that have broken these guys down in valuing there talent. I believe in Joseph and Obi as well but that doesn't mean they can't play on the field together with Fitz. Both rookie players can play more than one position espeically with nickel packages becoming the majority % set teams play. I don't have a big board draft order but the only guys I have in Fitz's range for us are Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, Edmunds, Vea, Ward, Guice, Smith, Evans and Landry. Evans and Landry are both looked at in the 20ish range but I think for us the game film, position need, skill set, NFL ready body and potential ceiling have them in the top 12 for me. Hurst would be there in my top 12 if he is cleared. I'm not as high on Mcglinchey, Payne, Davenport, Bryan, Jones III or James for us as some for various reasons but all good player that should go in the 1st rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Rich7sena said: Well, this is the Raiders board. I'm lower on Fitzpatrick and James both in a vacuum and for the Raiders. I'm lower on them because of positional value and my "tape" evaluations are also lower than consensus. I'm lower on them for the Raiders because I believe in both Joseph and Melifonwu as more than competent starters. Why so much belief in Joseph and obi? Joe can't cover tall guys to save his life and can barely stay healthy. Obi can barely stay healthy. Imo. What's your take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Why so much belief in Joseph and obi? Joe can't cover tall guys to save his life and can barely stay healthy. Obi can barely stay healthy. Imo. What's your take? Joe needs to be FS center fielder, not match up with guys like Kelce... Obi I'm not sold on at all. a lot of people in the draft community thought he had bust written all over him and was a combine warrior. Gilchrist make take his starting spot, he is a good player and a nice starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 40 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Why so much belief in Joseph and obi? Joe can't cover tall guys to save his life and can barely stay healthy. Obi can barely stay healthy. Imo. What's your take? Joseph is currently a competent NFL starter. I believe he can thrive in a more defined role at FS. Just because Melifonwu was hurt for the majority of 2017, doesn't mean he will be an injury risk going forward. I have no to reason to question his long term health more than any other player on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: Joe needs to be FS center fielder, not match up with guys like Kelce... Obi I'm not sold on at all. a lot of people in the draft community thought he had bust written all over him and was a combine warrior. Gilchrist make take his starting spot, he is a good player and a nice starter I don't think Joe has the long speed to even guard short fast guys. He's like a short lb imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Real question is what will nyg do with #2. The jets trade up makes the #2 pick worth a ton and a half. I don't think buff will pay that much nor overpay for # 4 or #5... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonGruber Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: I don't think Joe has the long speed to even guard short fast guys. He's like a short lb imo. He looks very compact I’m a little skeptical of him long term hope I’m wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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