Bears to trade 4th Round Pick to Jaguars for Nick Foles

[G08]

1 minute ago, WindyCity said:

My biggest fear is that Nagy will stubbornly stick to the “system” again. Half the offense can’t run it.

This is my concern as well. If he wants to keep his passing attack the same, fine, but he'd better find a way to establish the run game. If that is non-existent, I don't care who is back there at QB.

Fun banter, I'm gonna pass out

[AZBearsFan]

44 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Every game Nick Foles has started under Andy Reid or Doug Pederson:

14 regular season games started: 
- 3,480 yards
- 63.8% completion
- 18 TD, 9 INT
- 6.5 yards per attempt 

2019 Mitch 14 games

-3,138 yards

-63.2%
-17 TDs, 10 INTs 

-6.1 yards per attempt

That’s... not encouraging. 

[JAF-N72EX]

2 hours ago, soulman said:

It's not just my outlook brother it's all about accepting reality and too few around here seem willing to do that as opposed to throwing in the towel before the bell for round one even rings.  Some aren't even conducting a balanced analysis at all.  They only see the negatives and none of the positives or even a neutral.  It's not about smelling roses it's about staring reality in the puss and winning with what ya' got.

But what you may view as "reality" may not be the same for another person. 

For example, you may view the reality of trading for Foles as "well it happened and there's nothing we can do about it and so lets move on and see how it turns out before complaining". Whereas, another persons reality may include a little more foresight and there's nothing wrong with that.

Each person views things differently. That's the beauty of having different opinions man.  

2 hours ago, soulman said:

But you hit the nail on the head.  Most are showing anger at what they disliked but few offer any other realistic alternative so in my world that's pissing and moaning just for the sake of pissing and moaning. 

I could be wrong here, but I get the feeling that you are combining your problem with Windy's latest rage rant with those of us who mearly disagree with the signing of Foles and are now balling it all into one. Because, I won't pretend to be speaking for others, but I have offered realistic alternatives. Signing a cheaper FA or using a draft pick.

 

2 hours ago, soulman said:

Some are like a woman who comes home from a shopping trip angry because the dress she loves doesn't come in her size and therefore no alternative will satisfy her.

And they still buy it anyhow. Don't lie lol. We just gotta deal with hearing "The shoulders on this don't look right" or "this is too short, I can't wear this to work". 

 

2 hours ago, soulman said:

90% of you are all about instant gratification yet less than 10% of you know the rules of FA and how the salary cap works so few can understand how that may limit what even can be done as far as team building.

I agree that there are some users who are less familiar with how those things work. But I also don't think that those people's opinions carry any less value than those who do either tho.

2 hours ago, soulman said:

It's pretty clear to me.... (cont'd)

 I wanna stop you right there. Again, what YOU deem as being "clear to YOU" may not be clear to others because it's your very own opinion. 

For example, I don't believe half of the crap that is posted by the media these days. Because most media reps try and use the term "source" as a way to infuse their very own opinions without actually having a source and hope to hell it sticks in order to look like they know what they are talking about.
 

2 hours ago, soulman said:

It's pretty clear to me that Foles was our third choice because the rumors we approached Cincy about Dalton came out a couple of weeks ago

This is a great segway from the previous response. I don't believe this for a second simply because If you heard anything about Pace approaching Dalton a few weeks ago then it was most likely bull because that would be considered illegal tampering. But that's for another subject and is essentially a meaningless one to have at this point.

2 hours ago, soulman said:

I swear that if this was a war there aren't many here I'd want to have in my foxhole.  Instead of a bayonet charge they be tying white hankies to them and walking out to surrender.  You'd think we have no chance of ever winning again with this team.

I think you're going to extremes here just because some of us don't agree with the decision of signing Foles.

Again, I can't speak for others, but I think this team is still a playoff contender and I have said this numerous times and this move doesn't change that. Just because I don't necessarily agree with this ONE particular decision by the FO doesn't mean that I have given up on the season.

So how does some people not agreeing with this one move mean that they are already giving up on the season? You're thinking FAR too much into this. Or you are still caught up on windy's latest rant.

2 hours ago, soulman said:

I'm 100% fact based so I have little emotion to invest in this right now.  Too much is still unknown.  So yeah, I'm gonna look at whatever positives I can find and save my critiques for later when I know for a fact what worked and what didn't.  The rest of you can do as you choose.

Okay, Great. That's how you are and that's fine too. But expecting every one else to be this way is not realistic either and will only lead to disappointment. 

The point is man, it's cool that you see things in the way that do. That's what makes you, you. which again, I like you, you come across as someone who I could chill with and have beer with.  But you still gotta let others have an opinions too based on their own perspectives.

 
 

[soulman]

3 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

But what you may view as "reality" may not be the same for another person. 

For example, you may view the reality of trading for Foles as "well it happened and there's nothing we can do about it and so lets move on and see how it turns out before complaining". Whereas, another persons reality may include a little more foresight and there's nothing wrong with that.

Each person views things differently. That's the beauty of having different opinions man.  

I could be wrong here, but I get the feeling that you are combining your problem with Windy's latest rage rant with those of us who mearly disagree with the signing of Foles and are now balling it all into one. Because, I won't pretend to be speaking for others, but I have offered realistic alternatives. Signing a cheaper FA or using a draft pick.

 

And they still buy it anyhow. Don't lie lol. We just gotta deal with hearing "The shoulders on this don't look right" or "this is too short, I can't wear this to work". 

 

I agree that there are some users who are less familiar with how those things work. But I also don't think that those people's opinions carry any less value than those who do either tho.

 I wanna stop you right there. Again, what YOU deem as being "clear to YOU" may not be clear to others because it's your very own opinion. 

For example, I don't believe half of the crap that is posted by the media these days. Because most media reps try and use the term "source" as a way to infuse their very own opinions without actually having a source and hope to hell it sticks in order to look like they know what they are talking about.
 

This is a great segway from the previous response. I don't believe this for a second simply because If you heard anything about Pace approaching Dalton a few weeks ago then it was most likely bull because that would be considered illegal tampering. But that's for another subject and is essentially a meaningless one to have at this point.

I think you're going to extremes here just because some of us don't agree with the decision of signing Foles.

Again, I can't speak for others, but I think this team is still a playoff contender and I have said this numerous times and this move doesn't change that. Just because I don't necessarily agree with this ONE particular decision by the FO doesn't mean that I have given up on the season.

So how does some people not agreeing with this one move mean that they are already giving up on the season? You're thinking FAR too much into this. Or you are still caught up on windy's latest rant.

Okay, Great. That's how you are and that's fine too. But expecting every one else to be this way is not realistic either and will only lead to disappointment. 

The point is man, it's cool that you see things in the way that do. That's what makes you, you. which again, I like you, you come across as someone who I could chill with and have beer with.  But you still gotta let others have an opinions too based on their own perspectives.

 
 

OK, maybe I'm just and old man yelling at clouds today and maybe you're more realistic than most but one belief I will always have is there is only one reality based on a single set of facts.  There are no such things as "alternative facts".  Those are typically called "excuses".  Anything else is simply a distortion of that reality or what we all tend to call our own point of view or personal opinion.

Windy would find a way to ***** about having won a new Lamborghini if it wasn't a Ferrari and anyway he doesn't like the color.  He's the King of Circular Debates that typically end up going nowhere but back to where they all began.  His OS, like my ex's is "don't confuse me with facts my mind is made up".  But that's Windy.  He's been that way in other forums I've run into him in as well and IMHO every forum has at least one so he belongs to this one.  He may frustrate me with some of his opinions but I don't hate the guy enough to ignore him.

I'm not thrilled with all of what's been done so far either but once I acknowledge the rationale behind some of it I find acceptance.

For instance.  Based on the chronology of what's been reported Pace first reached out to Cincy about Dalton.  Dalton was my first choice as well.  It didn't happen.  We don't know all of the reasons why.  It just didn't and so Pace moved on.  According to rumors he even probed Oakland over Carr's availability.  I thought bringing in Carr would be a bad move but maybe Pace was leaving no stone unturned. Then he moved onto Bridgewater and actually made a very bold offer of $60 mil for three years.  That was a pretty serious shot but his insistence on having competition apparently drove Teddy B off because it sure as hell wasn't just the $3 mil more Carolina ponied up.

Mariota was off the market, Keenum was off the market, Newton can't pass a physical yet, and Winston would never have been a good fit. How much support could he have offered Mitch if he failed to win the starting job?  None.  He doesn't know that offense.  Plus he's a gunslinger turnover machine who IMHO will never win big with any team.  If that kid ever takes a team to a SB I will buy you the biggest and best steak in a steakhouse of your choice.  Winston may be entertaining but he's not a winner and he never will be.  In reality Foles was pretty much the last man standing and apparently not Pace's first choice either and with the way they restructured his deal it's pretty much a one and done deal unless Foles is starting here in 2021.  We aren't gonna pay him over $20 mil to be Mitch's backup are we?

And who are the cheaper UFA alternatives that would have met the criteria Pace and Nagy set way back in January?  In all honesty I don't see a single one which is why I've accepted a guy who has never been my first choice either but I have to admit that he does at least meet that criteria.  The media has been playing all kinds of guessing games with just how serious Pace and Nagy were about Mitch being #1 'til someone took it away from him but not once have they changed their approach.  Not even in making that offer to Teddy B did they alter it.  So what's the basis for believing they would ever have compromised and either signed another Chase Daniel level backup or rolled the dice on a rookie draft pick expecting either of them to push Mitch?  Chase couldn't and he knew the entire offense very well.

Let's face facts.  We asked the head cheerleader and all of the cheerleaders we knew to be our date for the prom and they all turned us down so we ended up with "Good Ol' Sally" whose a bit of a tom boy and whom we've known since we went to kindergarten together. Plus our parents are best friends and our Dad's play golf together every Saturday.  We like Sally.  She's not exactly homely but she's no model either.  But she's smart, she can dance, and given the rest we're sure as hell not gettin' laid on prom night.....but at least we're going to the prom with a date and that saves us some embarrassment.  Foles is that good ol' Sally compromise date we ended up with and he may actually surprise us.  He's not Tom Brady but he's not exactly Mike Glennon either. I mean the guy was won a Super Bowl too ya' know.

Maybe that's what disturbs me the most.  Too many want to focus on how after returning from an injury he got replaced by a gunslinger rookie 6th round draft pick who may end up fading into obscurity once teams get more tape on him.  If Minshew becomes another Tom Brady THEN that might be meaningful but half a season or so?  Nope.  If we're gonna be fair how 'bout we include the fact the Foles won a SB just three years ago and that his record in Philly with many of these same coaches was pretty damn good.  That's not one year in JAX it's 5 years in which his record was 21-11, he threw 58 tds (4.9%) vs 23 picks (1.9%) averaged over 200 yds per game and had a QBR of 93.2.  He's also 4-2 in the playoffs with a 98.8 QBR including beating us in 2018.  What if THAT Nick Foles shows up?  Just sayin' OK?

[WindyCity]

I think it is pretty clear Foles was our first choice.

It looks like Cam or Dalton could have been had for a 4th and taking on less money than Foles.

I get the appeal he knows the system, he just isn’t as good as those guys.

[dll2000]

Foles broke his collar bone in week 1.  This usually a season ending injury for a football player.

I think it is really unfair to use 2019 as a reason not to like him.

It is concerning to me that he started 2018 looking so badly.  He did end up beating the Bears in playoffs in Soldier Field with a badly depleted team.  A Bears team a lot of people had hopes of winning it all and was actually playing pretty good. 

 

 

 

 

[dll2000]

Just now, WindyCity said:

I think it is pretty clear Foles was our first choice.

It looks like Cam or Dalton could have been had for a 4th and taking on less money than Foles.

I get the appeal he knows the system, he just isn’t as good as those guys.

I think that is not clear at all.  There is no way of knowing who was the priority.  Sounds to me like Bridgewater was first choice.

I think Foles is way better than Cam at this point and equal to Dalton and better than Dalton in this system.

 

[soulman]

FWIW here's what Trib scribes Biggs and Wiederer have to say.

Tried & Tru

Bears deal for QB Foles, who proved his worth during Eagles’ stunning Super Bowl run three seasons ago Trade is an admission Bears whiffed on drafting Trubisky

Brad Biggs On the Bears

The Bears didn’t get the first pick of quarterbacks this offseason, but in trading for Nick Foles, they did get the player their coaches have the most experience with.

And with uncertainty about offseason programs and when — or if — training camps will open, that’s a plus.

That Foles is a proven postseason performer, helping guide the Eagles to the Super Bowl LII championship after the 2017 season, is another bonus for Bears general manager Ryan Pace and coach Matt Nagy, who were seeking — at the minimum — competition for starter Mitch Trubisky.

The Bears acquired Foles, 31, from the Jaguars on Wednesday in exchange for their fourth-round compensatory draft pick, No. 140 overall.

The Jaguars gave up on Foles a year after signing him to a four-year, $88 million contract, the league’s largest free-agent deal in 2019. He pocketed $30 million from the Jaguars and made only four starts, all losses, making it one of the worst contracts in recent years. The Bears assume only $20.125 million in guarantees, so the Jaguars’ major mistake becomes Pace’s high-priced one-year trial.

No matter how Nagy winds up structuring things when teams can return to work, the addition of Foles is an admission the Bears missed in drafting Trubisky with the No. 2 pick three years ago. They’ve been building around him ever since, and now it looks like the construction of what the Bears believe is a win-now roster may continue around a different quarterback. It’s hard to imagine they gave up a mid-round pick and threw more money at the position thinking of Foles as only a life raft if things don’t turn around for Trubisky.
Because NFL rules during the coronavirus pandemic prohibit players from entering team facilities until at least March 31, team doctors cannot perform physicals, so the Bears can’t officially announce the trade. Foles played for Nagy in Philadelphia and Kansas City and also has experience with Bears offensive coordinator Bill Lazor and quarterbacks coach John DeFilippo, all of which should help in the event the NFL schedule is significantly altered by the world health emergency.

Swapping Foles for the compensatory pick means the Bears spent a total of five draft picks — a first-rounder, two thirds and two fourths — to acquire Trubisky and Foles, including the 2017 draft-day deal with the 49ers.

Regardless of how you feel about Foles, failing to take action this offseason would have been a greater mistake. The Bears never will solve their quarterback problem unless they keep swinging at it, and the dela y in swinging has troubled the organization in the last decade. They hung on to Jay Cutler too long. They’ve failed to take enough shots on quarterbacks in the draft.

The Bears likely could have pulled Andy Dalton out of Cincinnati for the same draft pick, maybe less compensation. He had success with Lazor before. The Panthers made Cam Newton available, but his right shoulder has to be as much of a question as the foot injury that knocked him out last season.

A lot of quarterbacks were available entering this week, but none appeared to be the perfect fit for the Bears. That’s what happens when you’re fresh off missing on one with the second pick. In that case, why not pick the one you are most familiar with?

It’s at least worth wondering, though, why Pace had to pay a fourth-round pick. Were the Jaguars going to keep Foles if the offer was lower? It’s difficult to imagine the Bears were bidding against anyone else by midday, when the Patriots were the only team without a clear plan for a 2020 starting quarterback. The Colts might have had Foles as a backup plan, but that was before reaching an agreement with Philip Rivers on Tuesday.

In other words, were the Bears bidding against themselves? It would be one thing to give up the fourth-rounder if the Jaguars took on part of the money owed to Foles this season, but they didn’t. ESPN reported the Bears were able to rework Foles’ contract shortly after finalizing the trade. That’s helpful for salary-cap purposes, but it doesn’t change the $20.125 million in guaranteed money.

Things unraveled quickly for Foles in Jacksonville last season. He broke his left collarbone in the opener, and when he returned to the lineup in Week 10, he lasted only 2½ games before he was benched in favor of rookie Gardner Minshew, a sixth-round pick from Washington State. The Bears will be Foles’ fifth team.

Foles worked with Nagy in Philadelphia as a rookie in 2012 and again in Kansas City in 2016. DeFilippo was the Jaguars offensive coordinator last season and the Eagles quarterbacks coach when Foles had his magical 2017 postseason run. Lazor was the Eagles quarterbacks coach in 2013, when Foles was named to the Pro Bowl after throwing 27 touchdown passes and only two interceptions in Chip Kelly’s offense. So the Bears coaches are very well-versed in what he does well.

Whether Foles can emerge as a long-term solution or proves to be a bridge to the Bears’ next effort to draft a quarterback remains to be seen. He has only 13 starts over the last four regular seasons and was viewed primarily as a top-tier No. 2 around the league until experiencing enough postseason success to prompt the Jaguars to tab him as the replacement for Blake Bortles last March.

Foles’ postseason success wasn’t limited to replacing Carson Wentz late in the 2017 season and helping the Eagles reach the Super Bowl, in which he earned MVP honors after completing 28 of 43 passes for 373 yards and three touchdowns in an upset of the Patriots.
He was starting in place of Wentz again when the Eagles came to Soldier Field for a wild-card-round game against the Bears after the 2018 season. Foles’ 2-yard pass to Golden Tate on fourth-and-goal proved to be the difference in the Eagles’ 16-15 victory after Cody Parkey missed a 43-yard field goal with 5 seconds left. That’s the last start Foles won.

Foles is 4-2 in the postseason in his career, so maybe the Bears just have to get there for him to show the way. They’re hoping a retooled front seven with the addition of outside linebacker Robert Quinn will amp up the defense. The Bears couldn’t run the ball with any consistency last season and lacked explosive plays. A new offensive staff and new quarterback could combine to provide hope for Pace, who has gone the veteran route with free-agent contracts with Quinn, tight end Jimmy Graham and linebacker Danny Trevathan.
Eventually, the Bears will get around to making Foles’ arrival official, and then we’ll hear what they have to say about their plan. It ought to be to replace Trubisky.

 

Isn’t it what they needed?

Foles has a proven track record of being a calm and steady rescue artist

Dan Wiederer On the Bears

If you have the stomach for it, Chicago, it takes only 10 minutes. Cue up the late stages of the NFC wild-card-round game at Soldier Field on Jan. 6, 2019. Bears ahead 15-1 0, less than 5 minutes remaining.

An energized crowd and an eager city are feeling the buzz of what could be the Bears’ first playoff win since January 2011.
What an exhilarating season 2018 had been. And now, on this winter evening, with this long-awaited return to postseason football, imaginations are quickly shifting into fast-forward.

Still, as the Eagles take possession at their 40-yard line against a defense that led the NFL in takeaways and the NFC in sacks, the belief in the visitors’ huddle is swelling.

The quarterback in command, Nick Foles, has earned that trust — and a nickname in Philadelphia, with associated hashtag, that can’t be printed in a family publication such as this — by proving himself as a reliable rescue expert time and again.

Now here he is in another pressure- packed moment with a new and urgent call to action. Over the next 3 minutes, 52 second s, in a series of 12 plays, Foles operates with the equanimity of a surgeon. One thing at a time. Laser focus. All distractions blocked out.
The drive starts with a 15-yard completion to Alshon Jeffery, a play-action dart over the middle squeezed between a trio of Bears defenders. It ends with a 2-yard touchdown pass to Golden Tate, as precise as it is decisive.

Foles throws nine passes in all, completing six. That final one to Tate — on fourth-and-goal from the 2 as the clock ticks under a minute to play — is a winning throw made with winning vision before the snap.  The Eagles surge ahead 16-15.

You can cut the video there and save yourself further anguish from the sound of leather hitting metal twice. But you should notice Foles’ contagious calm, his steady hand, his trust in his teammates and himself.

No wonder the folks at Halas Hall were willing to make their bold dice roll Wednesday, trading a fourth-round pick to the Jaguars to bring Foles to Lake Forest.

The Bears need a rescue artist. They no longer can operate with unwavering belief that Mitch Trubisky’s developmental breakthrough is around the corner. They need options. Competition. A possible replacement.

Trubisky is the incumbent starter, nudged into this offseason with votes of confidence from general manager Ryan Pace but also demands from coach Matt Nagy that he become “a master at understanding coverages.” His grip on the starting role is far from firm, and his coach’s patience is running thin.

Now Foles’ arrival changes the dynamic.

Foles has proved himself to be both a trusty backup and, in some very important moments, a clutch starter. He has earned respect across the league for his steadiness.

Six days before that playoff game 14 months ago, Nagy expressed his admiration for Foles.

“Nick is as good of a human being as you will find,” Nagy said. “You want to talk about people who do things the right way. He’s somebody who cares about others, somebody who just wants to play for the love of the game. … He’s a very confident kid in the huddle. He knows where he’s going with the football. And he’s a playmaker.”

That following Sunday, as the Eagles left Soldier Field, packing Chicago’s ripped-out heart into their equipment crates, the endorsements continued.  “We’ve got a quarterback who just wants to live in the now,” Tate said.

Added tight end Zach Ertz: “He never tries to do too much. He tries to stay within himself on every play. The moment is never too big for him, and he just emanates that calm and positive attitude.”

As the Bears considered a multitude of candidates to bring into their quarterbacks room, a list that also included Andy Dalton and Teddy Bridgewater, Nagy had more than that playoff loss to reflect on. He spent time with Foles in 2012 with the Eagles and four seasons later with the Chiefs.

New Bears offensive coordinator Bill Lazor was Foles’ quarterbacks coach with the Eagles in 2013, the year Foles took over for an injured Michael Vick in October and threw 27 touchdown passes with only two interceptions.

New Bears quarterbacks coach John DeFilippo was in that same role overseeing Foles with the Eagles in 2016 and 2017, then was his offensive coordinator last year in Jacksonville.

That 2017 season, of course, was the fairy tale, the year Foles saved the Eagles’ season. After franchise quarterback Carson Wentz went down with a season-ending ACL tear in December, Foles jumped in and stayed steady. Then he carried the Eagles through the playoffs, one big victory at a time.

If those work-from-home coronavirus edicts afford you more than the aforementioned 10 minutes of leisure time, take Super Bowl LII for a spin. That night in Minneapolis, Foles went 28-for-43 for 373 yards and three touchdowns. He added a 1-yard touchdown catch on “Philly Special” in a 41-33 win over the Patriots.

He toppled Tom Brady and Bill Belichick, collected a Super Bowl MVP trophy and became a legend.

Ten months later, after another Wentz injury, he carried the Eagles from below .500 in mid-December to 9-7 and a wild-card berth. Then he persevered through an otherwise bumpy day at Soldier Field with a game-winning drive. For whatever it’s worth, Foles’ four playoff victories as a starter are more than the collective total of the last 29 Bears starting quarterbacks.

There are no promises the trade for Foles will prove successful. The Jaguars were eager to deal the 31-year-old quarterback barely a year after guaranteeing him $50 million in a four-year contract in free agency.

A broken collarbone in the season opener followed by three ho-hum starts late in the season convinced the Jaguars to go in a new direction with Gardner Minshew. Foles also had uneven starting stints with the Eagles in 2014 and the Rams in 2015, so turbulent, in fact, that he found himself seriously considering retirement.

Skeptics aren’t wrong to wonder whether Foles is capable of being a long-term starter or whether he is better suited for a supporting role.
It’s possible Foles could become the next quarterback sucked into the black hole of futility in Chicago. He seems destined to get an opportunity to play at some point — perhaps as soon as Week 1. And even in an offense he knows well, working with a coaching staff he has great comfort and chemistry with, he might be incapable of elevating the Bears’ bottom-tier offense to a championship level.
But beggars can’t be choosers either. And the Bears absolutely needed to do something to shake up their quarterbacks room and truly press Trubisky. On Wednesday, they finally took the big swing to do so.

 

[soulman]

18 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I think that is not clear at all.  There is no way of knowing who was the priority.  Sounds to me like Bridgewater was first choice.

I think Foles is way better than Cam at this point and equal to Dalton and better than Dalton in this system.

 

Based on reports that we made a $60/3 yr offer to him that sure seems to be the case.

The X factor in this may well be that of all of our possible choices no other QB should be any more prepared to function efficiently in this offense day one than Foles.  To me that levels the competition between he and Mitch right from the start and also tells me there's a 50/50 chance Foles starts the season not Mitch.

We may not have a single top tier QB but at the very worst we now have two top tier #2 QBs each pushing the other in a contest to see who starts.  Other than those NFCN teams who have obvious top tier starters we seem better protected against injury or failure should one not get the job done than say GB if they lose Rodgers or Minny if they lose Cousins or Detroit with Daniel subbing for Stafford.

At this moment the initial goal should be to win the NFCN because that's the road to the rest.  If we can't do that with either of these guys then next year we start all over again by drafting another QB and we keep doing it 'til we have a winner.  Only a handful of teams have gotten their guy the first time around (NE, GB, Seattle, KC) and even KC had to trade for Smith to get themselves back to respectability.

I believe Dan Wiederer nailed it.  We may not have gotten who we wanted but maybe we got who we need.

 

[dll2000]

3 minutes ago, soulman said:

Based on reports that we made a $60/3 yr offer to him that sure seems to be the case.

The X factor in this may well be that of all of our possible choices no other QB should be any more prepared to function efficiently in this offense day one than Foles.  To me that levels the competition between he and Mitch right from the start and also tells me there's a 50/50 chance Foles starts the season not Mitch.

 

I think that is a much bigger factor than usual due to mass IMO overreaction to corona virus.  Right now all offseason practices are cancelled.   

And MT had surgery on his shoulder and is out until training camp.  

I would say Foles is the likely starter as MT won’t have much of a chance to show he would be way better than he was last year in OTAs or other practices.  But who knows?  Maybe they want MT to have a legit shot to win the job.

I am thinking MT plays in preseason this year.   

[soulman]

What are the Bears Getting in Nick Foles?

Johnathan Wood | March 19th, 2020

The Bears traded a 4th round pick for Nick Foles, and the Bears officially have their new quarterback.

On the surface it might seem puzzling to trade for a 31 year-old quarterback who hasn’t thrown 200 passes in a season since 2015, but one of the big draws for Foles was his familiarity in Matt Nagy’s offense. He played for Nagy in Kansas City in 2016 and in the same scheme in Philadelphia under Doug Pederson in 2017-18. This could be especially important in this offseason, when team activities might not happen before training camp due to Covid-19.

Let’s take a look at some advanced statistics to see how Foles has performed in this offense. In my view, advanced statistics tell us as much about a quarterback’s approach as they do his efficiency. From them, you can see if he favors holding the ball to make a play or getting it out quickly to avoid taking a sack, pushing it deep or throwing it underneath, and making safe passes or taking chances into coverage.

The table below shows a battery of advanced statistics for Foles from 2016-18. For comparison, I included Mitchell Trubisky’s stats from his time under Nagy, and also Alex Smith’s from his time in this offense in Kansas City (the Next Gen Stats database only goes back to 2016, so I couldn’t make his sample any larger). I’ll note that Foles’ stats include playoff games to make the sample a bit bigger; even with that, it’s barely over 500 passes, and about 1/3 of that comes from the playoffs. I color-coordinated columns into general categories: basic efficienty stats (gray), throwing distance (blue), throwing time (tan), and taking chances (green). All data comes from Next Gen Stats except deep passes, which are from Pro Football Reference.

A few thoughts:

 

• Overall, Foles is kind of a poor man’s Alex Smith. He shares a lot of the same safe tendencies, but isn’t as efficient. Given Smith’s success in Kansas City when Nagy was there, I’m guessing that’s what he sees and likes in Foles.
• Looking at the grey columns, you can see that neither Foles nor Trubisky are as efficient as Smith. Foles has been more efficient than Trubisky, however, which is not surprising considering Trubisky finished at the bottom of the league in yards/attempt in 2019. Trubisky’s 2018 figure (7.4 yards/attempt) is more in line with the other 2 QBs.
• Looking at the blue columns, you can see that Foles is fairly similar to Smith in throwing short passes and relying on yards after the catch (YAC) to maintain efficiency. YAC is an area where the Bears have struggled mightily the last two years, and Foles appears to represent a significant upgrade there.
• Looking at the tan columns, neither Foles nor Trubisky get the ball out as quickly as Smith, though Foles is very good at avoiding sacks. Some of that may have been due to the outstanding line he played behind in Philadelphia, but there is growing evidence that sacks are largely a quarterback stat, which would speak well to Foles’ ability to get the ball out in time.
• Looking at the green columns, you can see that Foles and Trubisky both throw aggressively into coverage a bit more often than Smith does. Trubisky also throws it deep more often than the other two, though that’s mostly a function of 2018 (his 2019 rate was in line with Smith and Foles).

---

Tale of Two Quarterbacks

Like I mentioned above, I included playoff stats for Foles but not the other two in an attempt to increase his sample size, which was significantly smaller than Trubisky’s and Smith’s. I couldn’t help but notice, however, that the regular season and playoff Foles take quite a different approach to playing quarterback. Look at these same stats as the table above, split into Foles’ performance in the regular season and playoffs.

Some things don’t change: he throws the ball in about the same time and completes about the same amount of passes. But playoff Foles is much more aggressive throwing into tight coverage and pushes the ball down the field more. Regular season Foles plays like an inefficient version of Alex Smith. Playoff Foles plays more like Ryan Fitzpatrick. The stylistic differences there are jarring.

Is that simply due to a small sample size (playoffs is 6 games, about 175 passes)? Foles adjusting to the defenses he’s facing? I have no idea.

Matt Nagy received a lot of credit for coaxing a bit more aggressiveness out of Alex Smith in 2017, which led to the best season of Smith’s career. Foles tends to play with Smith-like tendencies by playing it safe and throwing it underneath, but he’s not as good at it as Smith was. However, Foles has shown in flashes he is willing to take chances. Nagy’s challenge will be coaxing that out of him just like he did with Smith.

 

[WindyCity]

56 minutes ago, soulman said:

What are the Bears Getting in Nick Foles?

Johnathan Wood | March 19th, 2020

The Bears traded a 4th round pick for Nick Foles, and the Bears officially have their new quarterback.

On the surface it might seem puzzling to trade for a 31 year-old quarterback who hasn’t thrown 200 passes in a season since 2015, but one of the big draws for Foles was his familiarity in Matt Nagy’s offense. He played for Nagy in Kansas City in 2016 and in the same scheme in Philadelphia under Doug Pederson in 2017-18. This could be especially important in this offseason, when team activities might not happen before training camp due to Covid-19.

Let’s take a look at some advanced statistics to see how Foles has performed in this offense. In my view, advanced statistics tell us as much about a quarterback’s approach as they do his efficiency. From them, you can see if he favors holding the ball to make a play or getting it out quickly to avoid taking a sack, pushing it deep or throwing it underneath, and making safe passes or taking chances into coverage.

The table below shows a battery of advanced statistics for Foles from 2016-18. For comparison, I included Mitchell Trubisky’s stats from his time under Nagy, and also Alex Smith’s from his time in this offense in Kansas City (the Next Gen Stats database only goes back to 2016, so I couldn’t make his sample any larger). I’ll note that Foles’ stats include playoff games to make the sample a bit bigger; even with that, it’s barely over 500 passes, and about 1/3 of that comes from the playoffs. I color-coordinated columns into general categories: basic efficienty stats (gray), throwing distance (blue), throwing time (tan), and taking chances (green). All data comes from Next Gen Stats except deep passes, which are from Pro Football Reference.

A few thoughts:

 

• Overall, Foles is kind of a poor man’s Alex Smith. He shares a lot of the same safe tendencies, but isn’t as efficient. Given Smith’s success in Kansas City when Nagy was there, I’m guessing that’s what he sees and likes in Foles.
• Looking at the grey columns, you can see that neither Foles nor Trubisky are as efficient as Smith. Foles has been more efficient than Trubisky, however, which is not surprising considering Trubisky finished at the bottom of the league in yards/attempt in 2019. Trubisky’s 2018 figure (7.4 yards/attempt) is more in line with the other 2 QBs.
• Looking at the blue columns, you can see that Foles is fairly similar to Smith in throwing short passes and relying on yards after the catch (YAC) to maintain efficiency. YAC is an area where the Bears have struggled mightily the last two years, and Foles appears to represent a significant upgrade there.
• Looking at the tan columns, neither Foles nor Trubisky get the ball out as quickly as Smith, though Foles is very good at avoiding sacks. Some of that may have been due to the outstanding line he played behind in Philadelphia, but there is growing evidence that sacks are largely a quarterback stat, which would speak well to Foles’ ability to get the ball out in time.
• Looking at the green columns, you can see that Foles and Trubisky both throw aggressively into coverage a bit more often than Smith does. Trubisky also throws it deep more often than the other two, though that’s mostly a function of 2018 (his 2019 rate was in line with Smith and Foles).

---

Tale of Two Quarterbacks

Like I mentioned above, I included playoff stats for Foles but not the other two in an attempt to increase his sample size, which was significantly smaller than Trubisky’s and Smith’s. I couldn’t help but notice, however, that the regular season and playoff Foles take quite a different approach to playing quarterback. Look at these same stats as the table above, split into Foles’ performance in the regular season and playoffs.

Some things don’t change: he throws the ball in about the same time and completes about the same amount of passes. But playoff Foles is much more aggressive throwing into tight coverage and pushes the ball down the field more. Regular season Foles plays like an inefficient version of Alex Smith. Playoff Foles plays more like Ryan Fitzpatrick. The stylistic differences there are jarring.

Is that simply due to a small sample size (playoffs is 6 games, about 175 passes)? Foles adjusting to the defenses he’s facing? I have no idea.

Matt Nagy received a lot of credit for coaxing a bit more aggressiveness out of Alex Smith in 2017, which led to the best season of Smith’s career. Foles tends to play with Smith-like tendencies by playing it safe and throwing it underneath, but he’s not as good at it as Smith was. However, Foles has shown in flashes he is willing to take chances. Nagy’s challenge will be coaxing that out of him just like he did with Smith.

 

Is it just me or are those numbers not that different?

[soulman]

4 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Is it just me or are those numbers not that different?

No, they're not.  What Wood is indicating is at least based on this data there's not a huge difference between Trubisky, Foles, and Smith as it relates to their regular season performance.  Mitch lags a bit in some areas but those were his 2nd and 3rd years in the NFL and 1st and 2nd years in Nagy's offense.  Both Foles and Smith had significantly more experience by then than Mitch did.

Obviously we'll know more this season but there comes a point where we should also be questioning just how poorly schemed Nagy's offense and play calling has been and it's impact on Mitch's development as well.  I have no doubt that Nagy is an offensive innovator but he's also a very inexperienced HC and play caller.  I believe that has to be taken into consideration as well.

I see 2020 as a very fair competition between a guy who Pace feels still has the upside needed to become his franchise QB and another more experienced vet who could easily be seen as the best #2 QB in the NFL over the past six or seven years.  If Mitch can't outplay Foles then at least for now he becomes a top tier #2 and Foles starts.  What happens after 2020 who can say?

[WindyCity]

Here are the numbers presented the cleanest way I can come up with them

Nick Foles with Pederson and Ried

270.6 yards per game, 63.8%, 6.6 yards per attempt, 1.4 TDs/.7 INTs

Mitch Trubisky with Matt Nagy

227 yards per game, 65%, 6.75 yards per attempt, 1.5 TDs/.8 INTs

[WindyCity]

12 minutes ago, soulman said:

No, they're not.  What Wood is indicating is at least based on this data there's not a huge difference between Trubisky, Foles, and Smith as it relates to their regular season performance.  Mitch lags a bit in some areas but those were his 2nd and 3rd years in the NFL and 1st and 2nd years in Nagy's offense.  Both Foles and Smith had significantly more experience by then than Mitch did.

Obviously we'll know more this season but there comes a point where we should also be questioning just how poorly schemed Nagy's offense and play calling has been and it's impact on Mitch's development as well.  I have no doubt that Nagy is an offensive innovator but he's also a very inexperienced HC and play caller.  I believe that has to be taken into consideration as well.

I see 2020 as a very fair competition between a guy who Pace feels still has the upside needed to become his franchise QB and another more experienced vet who could easily be seen as the best #2 QB in the NFL over the past six or seven years.  If Mitch can't outplay Foles then at least for now he becomes a top tier #2 and Foles starts.  What happens after 2020 who can say?

It's YAC. YAC is what tanked Mitch's numbers specifically yards per attempt.