slay traded

[Michael1976]

3 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

He didn't say anything about remaining silent. At all. He is saying that it is a common practice in certain team based environments like the military and in the police forces. There are a lot of things that are accepted as parts of those cultures that would be widely unacceptable in a general business setting. Definitions of professionalism vary depending on what field that you're in. For an office worker, spending 3 hours on a Saturday shooting pistol is a hobby and arguably a waste of time while it is essential training and a requirement to operate in a military/police setting efficiently. For a professional athlete, coming in out of shape and not watching film are two examples of unprofessional behaviour, while watching 3 hours of football for all of us is a hobby and arguably a waste of time. 

I've said it before - there are some players that do better with a "players coach' that is softer while there are other players who need that push and to be held accountable. You have to learn how to manage people and going from a coordinator position with a singular focus to being the CEO as a HC is a big transition. Patricia probably didn't realize how sensitive that Slay is and took the wrong approach in trying to encourage him to keep at a high level and push to be even better. It's not up to Slay to remain silent but if it was THAT much of an issue for him where he was that upset for a year, then he should have sat down with Patricia and told him how he felt about the whole thing and/or demanded a trade in 2018. To not say anything for a year, then say everything is cool in 2019 and that he's a good coach (which he has acknowledged) but it wasn't going to last is a bit of a cop out. 

Fair enough.  As far far as Slay saying "he's a good coach" doesn't mean he respects him. The way I read into Slay wanting a trade is pretty much he cannot play for a coach he doesn't respect.

[Karnage84]

1 minute ago, Michael1976 said:

Fair enough.  As far far as Slay saying "he's a good coach" doesn't mean he respects him. The way I read into Slay wanting a trade is pretty much he cannot play for a coach he doesn't respect.

Which is fair enough and fine. That's their personal element of things and it probably would've been ironed over if Patricia/Quinn gave him that Eagles contract. The only time it has ever been addressed as "I don't want to be here" is because he wanted to be the highest paid CB in the game (ego). The Lions FO didn't want to give that kind of money to a near 30 year old CB, where they commonly drop off at that age. Plus, Slay has held onto a grudge for nearly two seasons (ego). 

None of us really know the deal but I doubt if Slay would've accepted a pay raise up to $15M/year, because that's not being paid as the highest CB in the game, which is what he wanted. 

[Michael1976]

15 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Which is fair enough and fine. That's their personal element of things and it probably would've been ironed over if Patricia/Quinn gave him that Eagles contract. The only time it has ever been addressed as "I don't want to be here" is because he wanted to be the highest paid CB in the game (ego). The Lions FO didn't want to give that kind of money to a near 30 year old CB, where they commonly drop off at that age. Plus, Slay has held onto a grudge for nearly two seasons (ego). 

None of us really know the deal but I doubt if Slay would've accepted a pay raise up to $15M/year, because that's not being paid as the highest CB in the game, which is what he wanted. 

I admit that I wouldn’t had offered the extension that Philly did, although I wouldn’t have been crazy upset if Detroit did.  I guess I’m just disappointed that the Lions cannot seem to keep their elite/great players.

[HashtagFTW]

4 minutes ago, Michael1976 said:

I admit that I wouldn’t had offered the extension that Philly did, although I wouldn’t have been crazy upset if Detroit did.  I guess I’m just disappointed that the Lions cannot seem to keep their elite/great players.

This kind of goes against my bitterness of trading Slay, but the teams that are consistently top of the league rarely do keep their great/elite players unless they take paycuts to stay. 

[Michael1976]

7 minutes ago, HashtagFTW said:

This kind of goes against my bitterness of trading Slay, but the teams that are consistently top of the league rarely do keep their great/elite players unless they take paycuts to stay. 

Outside of quarterbacks (although they don’t have to be elite to be paid like they are) I do tend to agree with that point, I guess it’s just so few and far between that we have someone elite, I get clingy lol.

[Karnage84]

16 minutes ago, Michael1976 said:

I admit that I wouldn’t had offered the extension that Philly did, although I wouldn’t have been crazy upset if Detroit did.  I guess I’m just disappointed that the Lions cannot seem to keep their elite/great players.

 

10 minutes ago, HashtagFTW said:

This kind of goes against my bitterness of trading Slay, but the teams that are consistently top of the league rarely do keep their great/elite players unless they take paycuts to stay. 

Someone was commenting about this whole situation and they were talking about early Bellichick letting Lawyer Milloy walk from the Pats. They've done that time and again, even early on in their history. You can't build a winning franchise by overpaying for aging players and carrying contracts that are difficult to unload later on. The Patriots have tended to let guys leave early rather than too late. So Slay could have a good year this year but the Eagles might be regretting that contract in a year or so if his play drops off due to diminishing physical skills as an aging press-man corner. 

[Michael1976]

17 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

 

Someone was commenting about this whole situation and they were talking about early Bellichick letting Lawyer Milloy walk from the Pats. They've done that time and again, even early on in their history. You can't build a winning franchise by overpaying for aging players and carrying contracts that are difficult to unload later on. The Patriots have tended to let guys leave early rather than too late. So Slay could have a good year this year but the Eagles might be regretting that contract in a year or so if his play drops off due to diminishing physical skills as an aging press-man corner. 

I’m pretty sure it was Peter King from the link provided by TL-TwoWinsAway in the 2020 Free Agency Thread.  I agree with that logic regarding winning teams, which New England already was and Detroit currently isn’t.  I feel Detroit had a better chance on winning with Slay on the team, which is irrelevant since he’s no longer here.  I just want Detroit to win and I’m not sure they’re heading in the right direction.  Time will tell and I’d be ecstatic if I was wrong.

[Karnage84]

10 minutes ago, Michael1976 said:

I’m pretty sure it was Peter King from the link provided by TL-TwoWinsAway in the 2020 Free Agency Thread.  I agree with that logic regarding winning teams, which New England already was and Detroit currently isn’t.  I feel Detroit had a better chance on winning with Slay on the team, which is irrelevant since he’s no longer here.  I just want Detroit to win and I’m not sure they’re heading in the right direction.  Time will tell and I’d be ecstatic if I was wrong.

Yeah, I had watched that yesterday. Peter King feels correct. NE sort of was at the time but they weren't the NE of today or even a few years after that. Even so, MP isn't BB and does need to do this in his own way, even if he has a model that he wants to follow. I am hopeful that it works out but it's wait and see for all of us. 

Another thing to keep in mind - BB was in his second job as a HC during this time in NE. He learned some of his lessons from his time in Cleveland (although you could argue that he built the SB winning 2000 Ravens). This is MP's first go at things. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Karnage84

[HashtagFTW]

You can even go as far as Baltimore and Pitt back in their prime days. They year in and year out had elite defenses and really good offenses but never had anybody on their team get a market setting contract extension outside of QB. 

[Nnivolcm]

Strange how only the biggest Patricia fanbois have the most toxic work environments and are ok with it. 

[Karnage84]

2 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

Strange how only the biggest Patricia fanbois have the most toxic work environments and are ok with it. 

I own a business in financial services and work part-time in education. I've also coached football at the youth level. How I manage within these different environments is different and also adjusted for the various personalities. I personally take more of a "teacher" approach. However, when you're operating in a production based business, there will be a-type personalities that require to be managed in a different way. In my business, the only thing that truly matters is results. As a post-secondary teacher, I see the results of students not being previously held to account or challenged. I will challenge them because I want to see them be better. This is intended to help them when they graduate and get out into the real world. It's better to learn the lessons in school than it is when you're out in the real world and it impacts your ability to earn a wage. 

We saw Patricia and his approach at the Senior Bowl, which was similar. He is a teacher and is trying to challenge his players to be better. He mimicked an NFL practice schedule so that his players on the North would see what it's really like in the "real world" instead of being paraded around for tv/twitter scouts. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 hour ago, Nnivolcm said:

Strange how only the biggest Patricia fanbois have the most toxic work environments and are ok with it. 

Eh. Some call it thick skin and a sense of humor. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

It's amazing to me that some of you can't possibly fathom a world where people don't act like you do.

I just spent 8 hours helping someone move. I didn't know the individuals that were there that well. Three of them are correctional officers, in their mid-40s, and joined the Army at the same time in their 20s. Best friends. They spent nearly the entire time busting on each other. A constant barrage of questioning each other's manhood, suggesting each other's sexual preferences and implying that their "urges" are what contributed to their promotions. And they loved every second of it.

From the military to the state police, I've heard those exact same things said on a regular basis. It never phased me. The closer I got to my platoonmates, the more these jabs were exchanged. It brought us closer together.

Perhaps there's a world out there full of people that don't think the same way you think, and perhaps there's a reason for that. We had chants in the Marine Corps about killing babies and taking care of one's paraplegic girlfriend. Of course, we weren't actually killing babies, and none of our wives or girlfriends were paraplegics... just words. Words undoubtedly designed to desensitize the mind to the unfortunate truths of combat... the ugliness of war. Because, in war, you can't run to a HR rep if someone offends you, or retreat to a quiet space if you see something that hurts your feelings. Our Drill Instructors verbally (and sometimes physically) beat us into the ground. All designed to remove the part of the person that freezes when they see or hear something that makes them "feel bad".

It's exactly why our academy instructors regularly shouted insults at us, and the PE instructors made us box each other for hours. If you were taking it easy on someone, they made you fight the big guy as punishment. He wouldn't hold back. Why? Because that criminal on the street with a felony warrant and a dislike for police officers certainly wasn't going to. Much like being pepper sprayed (which they also did), they needed us to experience pain and offense then, in that controlled environment, before we had a chance to experienced it in the real world.

This may be a world that some of you are unfamiliar with... one that you find "toxic" or "offensive". You may think that those that live in this world are wrong for being fine with it. It says far more about your lack of understanding of the way these environments work than it does those individuals.

[Lionized]

12 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

It's amazing to me that some of you can't possibly fathom a world where people don't act like you do.

I just spent 8 hours helping someone move. I didn't know the individuals that were there that well. Three of them are correctional officers, in their mid-40s, and joined the Army at the same time in their 20s. Best friends. They spent nearly the entire time busting on each other. A constant barrage of questioning each other's manhood, suggesting each other's sexual preferences and implying that their "urges" are what contributed to their promotions. And they loved every second of it.

From the military to the state police, I've heard those exact same things said on a regular basis. It never phased me. The closer I got to my platoonmates, the more these jabs were exchanged. It brought us closer together.

Perhaps there's a world out there full of people that don't think the same way you think, and perhaps there's a reason for that. We had chants in the Marine Corps about killing babies and taking care of one's paraplegic girlfriend. Of course, we weren't actually killing babies, and none of our wives or girlfriends were paraplegics... just words. Words undoubtedly designed to desensitize the mind to the unfortunate truths of combat... the ugliness of war. Because, in war, you can't run to a HR rep if someone offends you, or retreat to a quiet space if you see something that hurts your feelings. Our Drill Instructors verbally (and sometimes physically) beat us into the ground. All designed to remove the part of the person that freezes when they see or hear something that makes them "feel bad".

It's exactly why our academy instructors regularly shouted insults at us, and the PE instructors made us box each other for hours. If you were taking it easy on someone, they made you fight the big guy as punishment. He wouldn't hold back. Why? Because that criminal on the street with a felony warrant and a dislike for police officers certainly wasn't going to. Much like being pepper sprayed (which they also did), they needed us to experience pain and offense then, in that controlled environment, before we had a chance to experienced it in the real world.

This may be a world that some of you are unfamiliar with... one that you find "toxic" or "offensive". You may think that those that live in this world are wrong for being fine with it. It says far more about your lack of understanding of the way these environments work than it does those individuals.

If I could like this twice I would. Jody said, he likes it also! 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Lionized

[Karnage84]

So I listened to Slay on whatever the show is with Stephen A and Max. He was talking about all of this. So the long and short of the situation is

- Slay got beat a bunch of times in practice by a particular player

- They put up film of him, the best player on the team, being beaten (Slay said he was ok with that)

- Then Patricia puts up photos of Slay's social media where he had praised said player (for whatever reason he keeps saying he won't name, but anyone with an Instagram account and 5 minutes of time could figure out who it is unless he deleted the post)

- Patricia says to Slay, in front of the whole group "stop sucking his ****" ie you were getting beaten by this guy, stop praising him and beat him back

- Slay even acknowledged that [Patricia] was trying to set the tone and that he had no issues adjusting to the new practice style

- Max Kellerman (I believe) even talked about how Bellichick had done that with an example when Randy Moss and Donte Stallworth had just joined the team. BB was ripping Brady for some bad throws in front of everybody. He was suggesting that what Patricia had done was to tell all of the younger guys "if the best player on the team can get chewed out, so can I"

- Slay talked about how people don't say that kind of stuff to other men where he's from, etc.