vikesfan89 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I'm sick of hearing about "infecting grandma" like grandma is some Goddamn (sorry God) gerbil. Grandma is her own person. *If grandma is in a nursing home, it's the nursing home's responsibility to keep people potentially contagious out of the facility. *If grandma lives with grandchildren, it's up to the household to keep their children away from grandma and away from places that could lead to getting COVID-19. My biggest pet peeves in life are a lack of accountability and too much entitlement. A global pandemic does not lessen the need for personal accountability, it amplifies it. A global pandemic does not boost entitlement, it lessens it. You are not entitled to the entire world suffering to keep you safe. You are accountable for your own health. This does not make me heartless or uncaring for grandma. Every single "grandma" that I know is taking their own accountability. They are staying home, they are staying isolated, they are practicing social distancing. Quit using them as an excuse to let millions of people go jobless, hungry and abused. By trying to save 5 years of life for X amount of people you are taking 10 years of life by X amount of people through poverty and well being. This constant talk of saving grandma is ridiculous. Unless grandma has no ears eyes nose arms or legs let grandma take care of herself. I have a very high risk Grandma. Luckily she lives on her own and she doesn't need to go anywhere. If we talk to her we can keep plenty of distance. People that live with elders should take extra precaution. I agree that there should be some personal responsibility there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) Matthew Scotch (co-author of the ASU study) said this about the deletion of some of the genes in the virus: “The takeaway is that one virus had a large deletion which demonstrates that it is possible for the virus to transmit without having complete portions of its genetic material,” study co-author Matthew Scotch told the New York Post through email. “This was one virus and we do not suggest that this means a ‘weakening’ of any kind.” Sounds like it could be a bad thing. The virus can still transmit even with some of its genetic material missing. Crazy stuff. This virus is a tough little ba*****. Edited May 7, 2020 by WizeGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 43 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I'm sick of hearing about "infecting grandma" like grandma is some Goddamn (sorry God) gerbil. Grandma is her own person. *If grandma is in a nursing home, it's the nursing home's responsibility to keep people potentially contagious out of the facility. *If grandma lives with grandchildren, it's up to the household to keep their children away from grandma and away from places that could lead to getting COVID-19. My biggest pet peeves in life are a lack of accountability and too much entitlement. A global pandemic does not lessen the need for personal accountability, it amplifies it. A global pandemic does not boost entitlement, it lessens it. You are not entitled to the entire world suffering to keep you safe. You are accountable for your own health. This does not make me heartless or uncaring for grandma. Every single "grandma" that I know is taking their own accountability. They are staying home, they are staying isolated, they are practicing social distancing. Quit using them as an excuse to let millions of people go jobless, hungry and abused. By trying to save 5 years of life for X amount of people you are taking 10 years of life by X amount of people through poverty and well being. This constant talk of saving grandma is ridiculous. Unless grandma has no ears eyes nose arms or legs let grandma take care of herself. It’s not about grandma and never has been. It’s about managing infections so hospitals don’t get over run. You talk about accountability but only reference grandma, How about some personal accountability for everyone? How about those that scoff at emergency orders, social distancing etc. Like the dimwits in Michigan that showed up to demonstrate complete with weapons.Now that’s entitlement. Poverty and well being? Sorry but the poverty makes me chuckle. No one gave two hoots about poverty before this happened because it didn’t impact them. Now, whoa, it impacts more people so it’s a concern. The hard reality is poverty is part of the issue prior to this virus with lack of healthcare, nutritious food etc. The only reason we have poverty in the developed world is greed, entitlement etc. One of the blessings of this is perhaps people will start to actually appreciate what they have and stop the nonsensical addiction to bigger houses, more T.V.’s etc, Perhaps if everyone had to make a trip to the food bank they might develop some empathy for those who live in poverty at all times. You talk about entitlement yet that’s the exact nature of your complaint isn’t it. You feel entitled to do what you want regardless of how you impact others. Your complaint is wholly rooted in selfishness and an inability to adjust so others less fortunate have an equal footing. Your material wealth takes precedent over others concerns. Accountability? Perhaps those who were to careless to have emergency funds will have some personal accountability. Perhaps those that have to much debt will have some accountability. Accountability as long as it’s only old people isn’t accountability at all. Sorry, but I have ZERO sympathy for complaints right now. The sacrifices being made by most right now are minuscule compared to sacrifices made by those before us. People need to suck it up and quit bitching and moaning. The reality is even with job losses etc. people in western democracies still have it far better than most people in the world.but we’re soft and seemingly unable to see past our self interests. The ironic part in all this is it’s not old people asking for protection or others to make sacrifices. They have a long life of overcoming and making sacrifices another time won’t matter to them. We can get through this but it takes EVERYONE doing their part. It’s ridiculous to clamour for everything to open because the explosion of cases will negate any positives attained by the sacrifices already made. There were numerous opportunities to snuff the virus but self interest, politics, fear and ignorance destroyed all those opportunities. I can see those same human shortcomings influencing decisions which will result in a second shut down. My Father taught me a great many lessons. One of which was realizing you can tell a great deal about people, organizations and societies by reflecting on how they treat the disadvantaged. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 It might have started with not overrunning the hospitals, but at least on this thread, certain members keep bringing up Grandma 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acowboys62 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Outpost31 said: I'm sick of hearing about "infecting grandma" like grandma is some Goddamn (sorry God) gerbil. Grandma is her own person. *If grandma is in a nursing home, it's the nursing home's responsibility to keep people potentially contagious out of the facility. *If grandma lives with grandchildren, it's up to the household to keep their children away from grandma and away from places that could lead to getting COVID-19. My biggest pet peeves in life are a lack of accountability and too much entitlement. A global pandemic does not lessen the need for personal accountability, it amplifies it. A global pandemic does not boost entitlement, it lessens it. You are not entitled to the entire world suffering to keep you safe. You are accountable for your own health. This does not make me heartless or uncaring for grandma. Every single "grandma" that I know is taking their own accountability. They are staying home, they are staying isolated, they are practicing social distancing. Quit using them as an excuse to let millions of people go jobless, hungry and abused. By trying to save 5 years of life for X amount of people you are taking 10 years of life by X amount of people through poverty and well being. This constant talk of saving grandma is ridiculous. Unless grandma has no ears eyes nose arms or legs let grandma take care of herself. Preach it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blahstoise Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Blahstoise said: Some UK death stats from Hospitals: Under 60s without a pre-existing condition who have died: 238 Under 40s without: 31 All under 40s: 116 Under 20s without: 3 Total Deaths: 22000 We need to do a better job of protecting the vulnerable. Add in numbers from Italy where only 59 deaths were under 40 and only 10 were without co-morbidities (potentially 19) out of 25,000 as of end of April. Very Low IFR >40 and healthy, potentially low for >60 with no conditions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 I, for one, am looking forward to this magic universe some people exist in where laws and restrictions aren't needed, and people will simply cooperate when provided the information needed to justify the cooperation. Meanwhile, on planet Earth, we're stuck here babysitting and regulating and restricting, not because we want to, but because we have to. But that magic universe sure sounds nice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said: I, for one, am looking forward to this magic universe some people exist in where laws and restrictions aren't needed, and people will simply cooperate when provided the information needed to justify the cooperation. Meanwhile, on planet Earth, we're stuck here babysitting and regulating and restricting, not because we want to, but because we have to. But that magic universe sure sounds nice. A lot of people seem to think there is a magic universe out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 I heard the new York governor say that a lot of the new hospitalizations are from the people that are staying home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said: I heard the new York governor say that a lot of the new hospitalizations are from the people that are staying home Meaning they stayed home too long without treatment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 For what it's worth I don't think that all restrictions should be lifted and it should be all for themselves but certain areas and businesses should get a chance to open up while still following social distancing 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acowboys62 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 14 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: It’s not about grandma and never has been. It’s about managing infections so hospitals don’t get over run. Yes, and that part has been accomplished across the board right? So we should be loosening restrictions across the board right? Not necessarily happening for many, many officials have no changed the goal. 14 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: You talk about accountability but only reference grandma, How about some personal accountability for everyone? How about those that scoff at emergency orders, social distancing etc. Like the dimwits in Michigan that showed up to demonstrate complete with weapons.Now that’s entitlement. I do not agree with what they did, but they exercised a right not an entitlement, ether you agree with that right or not is obviously not for discussion here. 14 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: Poverty and well being? Sorry but the poverty makes me chuckle. No one gave two hoots about poverty before this happened because it didn’t impact them. Now, whoa, it impacts more people so it’s a concern. The hard reality is poverty is part of the issue prior to this virus with lack of healthcare, nutritious food etc. The only reason we have poverty in the developed world is greed, entitlement etc. It is a concern because at what point does that factor in? We keep everything shut down and shut in and all of a sudden you have more death as a result of the "cure"...just like we were all shut down based on models/judgement calls, the same can be true for poverty and starvation. Those are some of the reasons sure, but there are other reasons that are self imposed. 14 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: One of the blessings of this is perhaps people will start to actually appreciate what they have and stop the nonsensical addiction to bigger houses, more T.V.’s etc, Perhaps if everyone had to make a trip to the food bank they might develop some empathy for those who live in poverty at all times. I doubt it, also you can do both. I moved into a bigger houses 2 years ago because I wanted to, I buy things I probably do not need because I want to and can...I also am getting ready to make a run to my local lunch break to drop off a bunch of food and supplies and will continue to do a monthly shop for them along with donating to animal causes. You make it seem like people with $$ are the issue...who do you think makes those locations even possible? Hint, it is not the people living pay check to pay check. I do agree that not ALL people or are well off help, but don't act like none do. 14 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: You talk about entitlement yet that’s the exact nature of your complaint isn’t it. You feel entitled to do what you want regardless of how you impact others. Your complaint is wholly rooted in selfishness and an inability to adjust so others less fortunate have an equal footing. Your material wealth takes precedent over others concerns. Right vs entitlement, equality vs equity. It is not selfish for people to want to go out and work and make money, it just isn't. I don't care if they make $10 /hour or $250,000 a year...there is zero selfish about working. Going out to the bar to get hammered..yes that is selfish in the current environment. 14 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: Accountability? Perhaps those who were to careless to have emergency funds will have some personal accountability. Perhaps those that have to much debt will have some accountability. Accountability as long as it’s only old people isn’t accountability at all. And what about those who were not in a position to have those things and have been forced out of work? What about those who took a risk and sank their life savings into a business but now are told they can't work...what do you say to them about accountability? 14 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: Sorry, but I have ZERO sympathy for complaints right now. The sacrifices being made by most right now are minuscule compared to sacrifices made by those before us. People need to suck it up and quit bitching and moaning. And that includes you, cause this post was riddled with mostly complaining. 14 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: The reality is even with job losses etc. people in western democracies still have it far better than most people in the world.but we’re soft and seemingly unable to see past our self interests. Ok, well this is where we live so that is what we base our opinions, wants, needs on...why would I live my life a certain way because some part of the world is not able? That makes no sense. 14 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: The ironic part in all this is it’s not old people asking for protection or others to make sacrifices. They have a long life of overcoming and making sacrifices another time won’t matter to them. Yea it is people using it as an excuse to keep things locked down and closed. 14 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: We can get through this but it takes EVERYONE doing their part. It’s ridiculous to clamour for everything to open because the explosion of cases will negate any positives attained by the sacrifices already made. There were numerous opportunities to snuff the virus but self interest, politics, fear and ignorance destroyed all those opportunities. I can see those same human shortcomings influencing decisions which will result in a second shut down. Please list number opportunities when you get a chance. 14 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said: My Father taught me a great many lessons. One of which was realizing you can tell a great deal about people, organizations and societies by reflecting on how they treat the disadvantaged. Yes you can, but you can have multiple things be true in all scenarios, at all times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Just now, theJ said: Meaning they stayed home too long without treatment? I took it as they've been following the stay at home orders and still got sick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acowboys62 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said: I heard the new York governor say that a lot of the new hospitalizations are from the people that are staying home My wife just heard in our part of NJ and one of the systems she works, they will not open up for elective surgeries until they 100% clear out at least 1 of the ICUs in the system. Keep in mind, they rarely if ever have 0 people in an ICU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Just now, acowboys62 said: My wife just heard in our part of NJ and one of the systems she works, they will not open up for elective surgeries until they 100% clear out at least 1 of the ICUs in the system. Keep in mind, they rarely if ever have 0 people in an ICU. That makes zero sense at this point 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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