Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Johnny Nix]

1 hour ago, Xenos said:

I dig both your conversations. Even though I don’t agree with @Johnny Nix, his views and concerns are shared by many. My friend for example will you that she believes in vaccination in general, but is scared of this vaccine and how fast it was created.

That’s my sentiment. I’m not anti-vaccine by any means. I just don’t trust how fast it was created, the unknown side effects (4 people have already developed Bells Palsy from it), the fact that the company is liability free from anything that does happen, and like another poster said, I and he are in a demographic that is largely unaffected by COVID. 

I have no problem if other people get it, and I would encourage anyone who is a demographic at risk to get the vaccine if they feel their odds are better. 
 

if this thing was more deadly than it is, I would be lining up just like the rest of you. Nobody likes deaths, but I just don’t see how the benefits outweighs the risks for me personally on this one. 
 

I also understand your viewpoints that “it’s more than just each person, it should be a collective risk.” I just don’t see it that way. I was called selfish for thinking this way, and if that’s how you wanna view it, that’s fine. 

[WizeGuy]

25 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

 (4 people have already developed Bells Palsy from it)

This has not been proven to be a result of the vaccine as you're claiming. Correlation does not equal causation. Possible? Sure, but it did not happen at a frequency above the general public, so there's no statistical significance there. 

 

Edited because my second point was made earlier in the thread. Oops.

Edited December 11, 2020 by WizeGuy

[incognito_man]

30 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

also understand your viewpoints that “it’s more than just each person, it should be a collective risk.” I just don’t see it that way. I was called selfish for thinking this way, and if that’s how you wanna view it, that’s fine. 

Are you at least consistent in your individualism and eschew other aspects of our society like: paved roads, public schools, and insurance claims? Or do you only choose to participate in those things that benefit you at the expense of the rest of us?

[Xenos]

59 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

That’s my sentiment. I’m not anti-vaccine by any means. I just don’t trust how fast it was created, the unknown side effects (4 people have already developed Bells Palsy from it), the fact that the company is liability free from anything that does happen, and like another poster said, I and he are in a demographic that is largely unaffected by COVID. 

I have no problem if other people get it, and I would encourage anyone who is a demographic at risk to get the vaccine if they feel their odds are better. 
 

if this thing was more deadly than it is, I would be lining up just like the rest of you. Nobody likes deaths, but I just don’t see how the benefits outweighs the risks for me personally on this one. 
 

I also understand your viewpoints that “it’s more than just each person, it should be a collective risk.” I just don’t see it that way. I was called selfish for thinking this way, and if that’s how you wanna view it, that’s fine. 

My concern is that you’re getting bad information from unreliable sources. The same ones that push the antivaxxer conspiracy theories.

[Johnny Nix]

27 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Are you at least consistent in your individualism and eschew other aspects of our society like: paved roads, public schools, and insurance claims? Or do you only choose to participate in those things that benefit you at the expense of the rest of us?

I guess I’m confused at your question. 
All those things don’t involve injecting something into my body and are entirely different. 

[Xenos]

On 12/9/2020 at 4:35 AM, WizeGuy said:

For anyone anxious about taking a vaccine that was developed quickly...

 

This is very informative on how scientists were able to create a vaccine so quickly:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronaviru...out_the_mechanism_and_progress_of_vaccines.3F

Main points:
-"First, previous research has enabled us to reduce the time necessary to begin developing and testing a vaccine candidate. Advances in vaccine technology have allowed researchers to develop vaccines based only on the genomic sequence of the virus in question (released on Jan 10th)."

-"In addition, we have considerable existing research on other human coronaviruses, including SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, that we were able to use to gain rapid insight into SARS-CoV-2. "

-"In this case, however, governments around the world were willing to underwrite significant portions of the costs of clinical trials, reducing the financial risk for pharmaceutical companies to develop and produce a vaccine without preliminary data, but heavily leveraging existing research into coronaviruses. These two factors likely reduced the timeline required for vaccine development by months to years."

-"...administrative delays in the vaccine-development timeline were mitigated or outright eliminated during the development of the COVID-19 vaccine candidates."

-"One of the most difficult and time-consuming tasks for a vaccine or drug candidate is to show superiority over existing drugs or vaccines that are on the market already; however, there were no existing vaccines against COVID-19, so the vaccines simply needed to be tested for superiority over a placebo."

-"...clinical trials often have difficulty enrolling subjects; it normally takes months to years to fully enroll a clinical trial. However, with the number of individuals that wanted to join each of the vaccine trials, enrollment was completed with unprecedented speed."

-"However, in the midst of a global pandemic, infection events are in no short supply, and by sheer numbers, people are infected rapidly in the trials and statistical significance can be reached much more quickly."

-"Again, collectively, these factors reduce the needed timeline by months to years without sacrificing rigor."

-"We have considerable knowledge of the fundamental biology underlying many of these vaccine candidates that allow us to better judge their safety, and after confirmation of their safety, human studies using RNA as therapeutic, both for vaccines, and in other ways to treat diseases are underway since years."

- Although mRNA vaccine are yet to be approved by the FDA for use in humans (in large part due to low cost-benefit to companies), the molecular biology of mRNA has been studied extensively for decades, and knowledge of the biological pathways involved with mRNA processing and degradation allows us to state with a high degree of confidence that the active component of the vaccine will be degraded quickly and poses no increased risk of causing genetic aberration.

I cannot seem to open the Reddit link.

[incognito_man]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

I guess I’m confused at your question. 
All those things don’t involve injecting something into my body and are entirely different. 

only driving on roads involves driving on roads.

only utilizing public education involves utilizing public education.

only using other people's money to subsidize your own expenses involves using other people's money to subsidize your own expenses.

All of things are unique activities. All of these things depend on at least a minimum amount of altruism to maintain a functional society. That's the common link. I'm asking if you choose to not partake in ANY public-good activity (like those mentioned and many more) or if you choose to partake only in those that you see a personal benefit for? i.e. if everyone acted that same way, "society" would cease to exist.

[Johnny Nix]

Unfortunately as a healthcare worker/first responder I may end up having to get it with where the country is headed. They are saying it’s optional right now, but I don’t see that lasting long. Already hearing rumors of them making it so you have to show proof of vaccination to do anything.

[Johnny Nix]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

only driving on roads involves driving on roads.

only utilizing public education involves utilizing public education.

only using other people's money to subsidize your own expenses involves using other people's money to subsidize your own expenses.

All of things are unique activities. All of these things depend on at least a minimum amount of altruism to maintain a functional society. That's the common link. I'm asking if you choose to not partake in ANY public-good activity (like those mentioned and many more) or if you choose to partake only in those that you see a personal benefit for? i.e. if everyone acted that same way, "society" would cease to exist.

That’s a very black and white mindset, sometimes there are other factors at play. 
 

people enjoy their personal freedoms that our military maintains for us, yet I don’t see everyone in society serving a minimum military service period. 
 

I think your mixing society with socialism. 

[Xenos]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

Unfortunately as a healthcare worker/first responder I may end up having to get it with where the country is headed. They are saying it’s optional right now, but I don’t see that lasting long. Already hearing rumors of them making it so you have to show proof of vaccination to do anything.

To travel to certain countries will probably be a requirement.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Xenos

[Xenos]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

That’s a very black and white mindset, sometimes there are other factors at play. 
 

people enjoy their personal freedoms that our military maintains for us, yet I don’t see everyone in society serving a minimum military service period. 
 

I think your mixing society with socialism. 

Not everything is socialism. 

[Johnny Nix]

1 minute ago, Xenos said:

Not everything is socialism. 

You're suggesting that to be in a society that everyone must partake in the same things to maintain said society, that’s borderline socialism talk. 

[incognito_man]

11 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

That’s a very black and white mindset, sometimes there are other factors at play. 
 

people enjoy their personal freedoms that our military maintains for us, yet I don’t see everyone in society serving a minimum military service period. 
 

I think your mixing society with socialism. 

everyone contributes to the military via taxes

you're choosing to not contribute to public health

[incognito_man]

16 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

Unfortunately as a healthcare worker/first responder I may end up having to get it with where the country is headed. They are saying it’s optional right now, but I don’t see that lasting long. Already hearing rumors of them making it so you have to show proof of vaccination to do anything.

this is great news. Luckily there are other ways to incentivize/force people to vaccinate to participate in society. Some people unfortunately need that extra "encouragement".

[Johnny Nix]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

everyone contributes to the military via taxes

you're choosing to not contribute to public health

I contribute my taxes to public roads and public education as well. So what’s your point?

I contribute to public health everyday by providing a service to the community.