1.26 - Jordan Love [QB; Utah State] - QB1

[hitnhope]

4 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

To me?  If you want to find fault to Gute for signing the 2X reigning MVP to that deal, then go for it.

I won't fight you on it.  But I will ask you to provide me an example of another single time MVP who was traded or released the year after winning said MVP.

Then I'll tell you that the GM did see a regression in Rodgers.  He did draft his heir apparent.  And right now, that investment is looking pretty good.

I mean, you are arguing that it is bad for the GM to have two real QB's on the roster?

I know what you are driving at.  But the only fault I see is in the new Rodgers deal, and that isn't much of a fault given his play over the last 2 years.

And I guess I don't worry at all about Love's contract.  There's little reason to think that we won't give him a good offer to stay in GB and then a starters contract with escalators when he becomes the starter.

It's the same thing we did with Rodgers.  This is not uncharted water.

We should not have given AR that contract.  Asking for earlier examples is excuse making.   Did the Patriots let Tom Brady go?  I know it's not a great example as they haven't won since he left, but they didn't allow Brady to control the organization.

I said it then and will now- they drafted Love a couple years too early.   They lost all of the advantages of having a young cheap QB. Then when it was time to trade Rodgers for a mound of picks to replenish for the future he signed him to a huge contract that ties the teams hands.  

If Jordan Love is who many here think he is - Why would he agree to sign a smaller contract to be a backup in Green Bay for 2 more years?   He should want to get starter money and opportunity now.  NFL careers are short as it is.   Spending 5-6 years as a backup should not be his goal.

[PACKRULE]

9 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

We should not have given AR that contract.  Asking for earlier examples is excuse making.   Did the Patriots let Tom Brady go?  I know it's not a great example as they haven't won since he left, but they didn't allow Brady to control the organization.

I said it then and will now- they drafted Love a couple years too early.   They lost all of the advantages of having a young cheap QB. Then when it was time to trade Rodgers for a mound of picks to replenish for the future he signed him to a huge contract that ties the teams hands.  

If Jordan Love is who many here think he is - Why would he agree to sign a smaller contract to be a backup in Green Bay for 2 more years?   He should want to get starter money and opportunity now.  NFL careers are short as it is.   Spending 5-6 years as a backup should not be his goal.

So they broke some sort of rule?

I mean I get it, it's not ideal. It's like buying hotel rooms from the hotel vs trivago:). At the end of the day it doesn't always line up perfectly and you have 3 years of hindsight that they do not. None of us were sitting there in Gute and CO"s office when the pick came up and they had a chance at a QB when theirs was failing? Of course not, stop acting like they all knew this would shake out just like this. 

Not just you, but lots of us are so dam critical of these decisions. Who cares let it go, we have HOF at QB we're paying to much money for, what does that say about GB and their FO. It says if you're a star we'll pay you and pay you well. It's not always in focus through your lens or my lens, There are many factors always in play. 

it's so easy to be critical of people when I have the next 3 years of information that they did not. 

[vegas492]

17 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

We should not have given AR that contract.  Asking for earlier examples is excuse making.   Did the Patriots let Tom Brady go?  I know it's not a great example as they haven't won since he left, but they didn't allow Brady to control the organization.

I said it then and will now- they drafted Love a couple years too early.   They lost all of the advantages of having a young cheap QB. Then when it was time to trade Rodgers for a mound of picks to replenish for the future he signed him to a huge contract that ties the teams hands.  

If Jordan Love is who many here think he is - Why would he agree to sign a smaller contract to be a backup in Green Bay for 2 more years?   He should want to get starter money and opportunity now.  NFL careers are short as it is.   Spending 5-6 years as a backup should not be his goal.

First off, Brady was not cut or traded.  New England even tried to bring him back, he wanted to sign elsewhere.  

Secondly, Brady did not win the MVP.

I think they drafted Love a year or two early as well.  But, here we are.  I don't worry about that rookie contract advantage because odds are, we will still have an advantage with Love's second deal, if he gives one.  Just like Rodger's second deal.  

I agree it would have been nice to get that large haul for Rodgers after last year or the year before, but again, I'll go back to this.  We more or less thought that Love was garbage two years ago.  We thought he was still pretty trashy a year ago.  And Rodgers was winning 2 MVP's in a row and we were winning a ton of games.

What's changed?  Well....Love had a much better pre-season and he's looked quite good in mop up time this year.  While Rodgers has regressed and been injured to some extent.

If Jordan Love wants to be successful, he will stay in the only system he's known with the only HC he's known.  And we can pay him, just like we did Rodgers on his second deal.

Now...if Jordan really wants to play and we are stuck with Rodgers coming back?  I think you swallow hard, take your draft picks via a trade and wish the kid well and start over with another QB.  (That'll sting to me, I want to see the Jordan Love thing through.)

[Mr Anonymous]

Always get a kick at a few people here who bash me for some of the things I've shared, who then turn around and regurgitate those same things as fact.

[Old Guy]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

To me?  If you want to find fault to Gute for signing the 2X reigning MVP to that deal, then go for it.

I won't fight you on it.  But I will ask you to provide me an example of another single time MVP who was traded or released the year after winning said MVP.

Then I'll tell you that the GM did see a regression in Rodgers.  He did draft his heir apparent.  And right now, that investment is looking pretty good.

I mean, you are arguing that it is bad for the GM to have two real QB's on the roster?

I know what you are driving at.  But the only fault I see is in the new Rodgers deal, and that isn't much of a fault given his play over the last 2 years.

And I guess I don't worry at all about Love's contract.  There's little reason to think that we won't give him a good offer to stay in GB and then a starters contract with escalators when he becomes the starter.

It's the same thing we did with Rodgers.  This is not uncharted water.

You left out a key component to this post. Rodgers was already under contract through this year. He signed a four-year deal which we basically tore up and gave him a ton of new cash. 

Gute should have told Rodgers to play on that deal and we'd be sitting in a whole different position regarding his leverage and our cap situation. 

[minnypackerfan]

Can't we just cut him at the end of the year and let him go play somewhere else?  What is the cap hit for that?  Any different than if we traded him?

I want to see more of Jordan Love.

[hitnhope]

32 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

 

it's so easy to be critical of people when I have the next 3 years of information that they did not. 

I've taken stuff on this forum for 3 years because of my criticism with the situation.   

I don't think it's too much to expect the leaders of the organization to assess the talent on hand and make sound decisions.

If AR is the problem everyone on this forum indicates with not throwing over the middle or following the offense than it should have been a simple decision to move on.  So maybe people of this forum have a bad opinion about everything?  

[hitnhope]

6 minutes ago, minnypackerfan said:

Can't we just cut him at the end of the year and let him go play somewhere else?  What is the cap hit for that?  Any different than if we traded him?

I want to see more of Jordan Love.

No we can't - that is the problem.  the cap hit to do this would mean stripping much of the teams already short talent.   Do you really want to see Jordan Love so bad that we have no talent around him and pretty much assure him failing?

[PACKRULE]

7 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

I've taken stuff on this forum for 3 years because of my criticism with the situation.   

I don't think it's too much to expect the leaders of the organization to assess the talent on hand and make sound decisions.

If AR is the problem everyone on this forum indicates with not throwing over the middle or following the offense than it should have been a simple decision to move on.  So maybe people of this forum have a bad opinion about everything?  

Sure he's a problem that just won 2 MVP's and some don't like him and lots love the heck out of him. It's a business and what are they in the business of? Some will say championships.............wrong they are int he business of winning. Plain and simple. AR has done that just like Favre before him.

With that said again you have the benefit of hindsight and were not working at the moment like Gute and CO. Making sound decisions they seemed to, we have a problem that many teams want. We have a HOF QB and a first roudering in the wings. 

I don't want to argue just was reading and though there was some untrue things there like in every post on here these days. 

No matter what happens i hope that we don't treat AR like we did Favre. Send him where he wants so long as the package is fair if we are going to trade him, if we're not let him ride it out and give him the best supporting cast we can. 

All the whiners and pisser and moaners about having a bad year after 3 years of wins upon wins. I mean this league is built so this happens. It's a good thing to have some down years maybe 1-2 to hopefully restock. 

[MacReady]

13 minutes ago, minnypackerfan said:

Can't we just cut him at the end of the year and let him go play somewhere else?  What is the cap hit for that?  Any different than if we traded him?

I want to see more of Jordan Love.

It’s the same if we cut or trade him as far as I know.

So the Packers have SOME leverage. They can make him negotiate the release/trade money or just keep him on the roster (and not play him/force him to retire).

Rodgers basically has control on whether or not he rides the bench or facilitates a negotiated trade.

We’ve given in enough to Rodgers, and we’ve certainly paid him enough.

His choices:

1. Attend every single OTA and training camp and every single offseason activity the Packers have, be all-in, play in the preseason, commit everything he has to next year.

2. Refuse to do those things, stay on the team but not start.

3. Retire.

4. Negotiate his current deal for us to owe him NOTHING in return for his unconditional release.

5. Negotiate his current deal so it hurts us less against the cap in order to trade him.

That’s it. If it doesn’t benefit us, he doesn’t get it. Period.

[PACKRULE]

17 minutes ago, minnypackerfan said:

Can't we just cut him at the end of the year and let him go play somewhere else?  What is the cap hit for that?  Any different than if we traded him?

I want to see more of Jordan Love.

Gotta sell him for as much as we can get...........bahahha. 

I think we have rights as a club, I would hope if the club feels they have somehting in Love that they treat AR with respect let him work out where he wants to go and see if we can't get a couple picks for him. Better than nothing, if things really stalemate then to be honest from my vantage point he would have earned his release. 

[MacReady]

18 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

Sure he's a problem that just won 2 MVP's and some don't like him and lots love the heck out of him. It's a business and what are they in the business of? Some will say championships.............wrong they are int he business of winning. Plain and simple. AR has done that just like Favre before him.

With that said again you have the benefit of hindsight and were not working at the moment like Gute and CO. Making sound decisions they seemed to, we have a problem that many teams want. We have a HOF QB and a first roudering in the wings. 

I don't want to argue just was reading and though there was some untrue things there like in every post on here these days. 

No matter what happens i hope that we don't treat AR like we did Favre. Send him where he wants so long as the package is fair if we are going to trade him, if we're not let him ride it out and give him the best supporting cast we can. 

All the whiners and pisser and moaners about having a bad year after 3 years of wins upon wins. I mean this league is built so this happens. It's a good thing to have some down years maybe 1-2 to hopefully restock. 

Aaron never gave the Packers any deals.

He was well-compensated and never took a penny less than he could get.

Why do we have to give him anything? We’re the Packers, not the quarterbacks.

The Packers need to do what’s best for the Packers for once in this whole sordid post-2010 Rodgers era.

[Old Guy]

37 minutes ago, minnypackerfan said:

Can't we just cut him at the end of the year and let him go play somewhere else?  What is the cap hit for that?  Any different than if we traded him?

I want to see more of Jordan Love.

1. Depends on when you cut him, b4 or after June 1st, and either way a bill is going to come due, either in 2023 or 2024. 

2. Why would you cut him when you can get a quality draft pick or two? 

[Old Guy]

25 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

Sure he's a problem that just won 2 MVP's and some don't like him and lots love the heck out of him. It's a business and what are they in the business of? Some will say championships.............wrong they are int he business of winning. Plain and simple. AR has done that just like Favre before him.

With that said again you have the benefit of hindsight and were not working at the moment like Gute and CO. Making sound decisions they seemed to, we have a problem that many teams want. We have a HOF QB and a first roudering in the wings. 

I don't want to argue just was reading and though there was some untrue things there like in every post on here these days. 

No matter what happens i hope that we don't treat AR like we did Favre. Send him where he wants so long as the package is fair if we are going to trade him, if we're not let him ride it out and give him the best supporting cast we can. 

All the whiners and pisser and moaners about having a bad year after 3 years of wins upon wins. I mean this league is built so this happens. It's a good thing to have some down years maybe 1-2 to hopefully restock. 

I'm just dumbfounded by the bold part. There is one team holding a trophy at the end of the season and 31 other losers. Some get close but there is no participation trophy in the NFL. 

Don't want to dig up things from 15 years ago, but how did we treat Favre badly? The guy wanted to retire every year. Gave a retirement press conference. WE moved on and he decided he was 'still the man.' 

Favre treated the organization like ****. The organization that revived soon to be a bust of a career. The organization that stood by him when he went into rehab. The same organization who put a team around him to win a championship. 

Favre and Rodgers now have a few things in common. One of them is they both turned into full-fledged pricks at the end of their careers. 

 

[PACKRULE]

31 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

It’s the same if we cut or trade him as far as I know.

So the Packers have SOME leverage. They can make him negotiate the release/trade money or just keep him on the roster (and not play him/force him to retire).

Rodgers basically has control on whether or not he rides the bench or facilitates a negotiated trade.

We’ve given in enough to Rodgers, and we’ve certainly paid him enough.

His choices:

1. Attend every single OTA and training camp and every single offseason activity the Packers have, be all-in, play in the preseason, commit everything he has to next year.

2. Refuse to do those things, stay on the team but not start.

3. Retire.

4. Negotiate his current deal for us to owe him NOTHING in return for his unconditional release.

5. Negotiate his current deal so it hurts us less against the cap in order to trade him.

That’s it. If it doesn’t benefit us, he doesn’t get it. Period.

Good things the Packers own him right? No wonder the players try to get very penny, even the fans turn on them at a second.

Hopefully the FO appreciates him and players more than fans do.