The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[MrOaktown_56]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:29 AM, bucksavage1 said:

I wouldn’t say they were terrible takes, Carr wasn’t playing up to his abilities from since 2016 by playing scared, throwing short too much and not executing in RZ. All were fair criticisms.

To his credit, the 1st 3 games he has improved in those areas. Let’s keep it up 

He definitely played very well for most of last year. He's been trending upward since 2019. The redzone involves all 11 players on offense and the coach. Blame him for the offense's conservative tendencies.

[Jeremy408]

6 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Eh, what?? Nobody bothers to cover him??!?? 

I normally see a lot of sense in what you post but this is just confusing. I watch quite a bit of the Rams and Cooper Kupp is certainly not uncovered every play. Sure, they do scheme him free from time to time but his route running is great and he's very underrated after the catch too. Very, very good WR who probably doesn't get the respect he deserves IMO.

The thing with Cooper Kupp imo is he gets schemed open a lot. I don’t know if he would be doing all that he does if he didn’t play for the Rams. 

[Darbsk]

28 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

The thing with Cooper Kupp imo is he gets schemed open a lot. I don’t know if he would be doing all that he does if he didn’t play for the Rams. 

Well that's slightly different, other receivers like Woods and Jackson certainly draw attention and I would agree that on a team with less weapons he might be less successful but that's pretty true for every receiver other than real All Pro guys but I don't think it's as simple as just scheming someone open or else all teams would just scheme a guy open like that.

There's plenty of film out there showing him beating man coverage, I said in another thread that I held him up as a 'rich man's Hunter Renfrow' (if you're familiar with my posts you'll know I absolutely love Renfrow) and I think that's a good analogy, he's better equipped to play outside but has similar 'sneaky' qualities, surprises you with his route savvy and ability to beat tacklers after the catch. Renfrow breaks many more tackles than Waller but is only 50% the athlete and Kupp is not an elite athlete but is very effective in a similar way.

[Jeremy408]

5 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Well that's slightly different, other receivers like Woods and Jackson certainly draw attention and I would agree that on a team with less weapons he might be less successful but that's pretty true for every receiver other than real All Pro guys but I don't think it's as simple as just scheming someone open or else all teams would just scheme a guy open like that.

There's plenty of film out there showing him beating man coverage, I said in another thread that I held him up as a 'rich man's Hunter Renfrow' (if you're familiar with my posts you'll know I absolutely love Renfrow) and I think that's a good analogy, he's better equipped to play outside but has similar 'sneaky' qualities, surprises you with his route savvy and ability to beat tacklers after the catch. Renfrow breaks many more tackles than Waller but is only 50% the athlete and Kupp is not an elite athlete but is very effective in a similar way.

That’s pretty much what I’m saying the attention goes DeSean Jackson and Robert woods.

I also think There are receivers that aren’t all pro that don’t need to be schemed open either. AJ Brown is a good example. 

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

I would agree that on a team with less weapons he might be less successful but that's pretty true for every receiver other than real All Pro guys

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

That’s pretty much what I’m saying the attention goes DeSean Jackson and Robert woods.

I also think There are receivers that aren’t all pro that don’t need to be schemed open either. AJ Brown is a good example. 

That's not quite what I meant, I meant in the above quote that most players play would suffer if they left the excellent Rams with great supporting cast for an average team or a team that was below average and that only real All Pro type players may excel on teams with poor supporting cast, like an OBJ Giants version or Calvin Johnson or DeAndre Hopkins have played great on poor teams.

Edited to add the top quote was mine from the post you were replying to - no idea why it's attributed to you sorry!

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Darbsk

[Geezy]

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

That’s pretty much what I’m saying the attention goes DeSean Jackson and Robert woods.

I also think There are receivers that aren’t all pro that don’t need to be schemed open either. AJ Brown is a good example. 

Kupp is a baller bro, not sure how you can take anything away from him. All WRa get schemed open at times. 

[Jeremy408]

2 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

That's not quite what I meant, I meant in the above quote that most players play would suffer if they left the excellent Rams with great supporting cast for an average team or a team that was below average and that only real All Pro type players may excel on teams with poor supporting cast, like an OBJ Giants version or Calvin Johnson or DeAndre Hopkins have played great on poor teams.

I wouldn't say that Stefon Diggs has a supporting cast really. AJ Brown has supporting cast now but he didn't when he first came in the league. Terry McLaurin. There's a list of people that could be named

[Darbsk]

1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said:

I wouldn't say that Stefon Diggs has a supporting cast really. AJ Brown has supporting cast now but he didn't when he first came in the league. Terry McLaurin. There's a list of people that could be named

I guess there are exceptions to the rule of course and of course top receivers also sometimes have down years on bad teams but in general I was inferring that players tend to play better when the supporting cast is better, thus if Kupp left the Rams for say, the Washington Football Team or the Lions his production would likely dip. Of course he could also go to a team where he's the only option and gets more targets too but in general players play better with better teammates around them and better coaching, scheming etc. 😀

[Jeremy408]

Just now, Darbsk said:

I guess there are exceptions to the rule of course and of course top receivers also sometimes have down years on bad teams but in general I was inferring that players tend to play better when the supporting cast is better, thus if Kupp left the Rams for say, the Washington Football Team or the Lions his production would likely dip. Of course he could also go to a team where he's the only option and gets more targets too but in general players play better with better teammates around them and better coaching, scheming etc. 😀

 Thats all I'm really saying 

[Darbsk]

6 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

 Thats all I'm really saying 

Haha then I totally agree 😀👍

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Geezy said:

Kupp is a baller bro, not sure how you can take anything away from him. All WRa get schemed open at times. 

I was wondering the same thing. He's a precise route runner with great speed in and out of breaks. Dude is a top WR in the league regardless of scheme. Taking anything away from him is misguided. 

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, Geezy said:

Kupp is a baller bro, not sure how you can take anything away from him. All WRa get schemed open at times. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I was wondering the same thing. He's a precise route runner with great speed in and out of breaks. Dude is a top WR in the league regardless of scheme. Taking anything away from him is misguided. 

I kind of already explained my take to @Darbsk a lot of the things he does wouldnt work if he didnt play for the rams 

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

3 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

The thing with Cooper Kupp imo is he gets schemed open a lot. I don’t know if he would be doing all that he does if he didn’t play for the Rams. 

Cooper Kupp  = Hunter Renfrow ???

[Jeremy408]

3 minutes ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

Cooper Kupp  = Hunter Renfrow ???

Here are my thoughts on that:

Cooper Kupp gets the ball a lot more. That said I've never seen Cooper Kupp do this to a number one corner. 

To me Renfrow is more like Edelman than kupp

Edited September 29, 2021 by Jeremy408

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

Here are my thoughts on that:

Cooper Kupp gets the ball a lot more. That said I've never seen Cooper Kupp do this to a number one corner. 

To me Renfrow is more like Edelman than kupp

Looks to me like Waller, Renfrow and Drake were all open. Carr had a pick of the three. He made the correct read imo.