The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[drfrey13]

5 minutes ago, FloydFan said:

You have completely missed my point in general which is why this is tiring. The stats don't show the story. I'm also incredibly tired of stat box scouting.  This is the type of logic that causes people to screw up and miss on good players. There is a grey area between eye test and stat boxes in my opinion. The NFL ain't baseball. Do you honestly think we have 10 wins last year with anyone that would be available over Carr right now (not counting Rodgers and Wilson since they realistically aren't available at least yet)? Also, I originally said it was "arguable" that he was and his 4th qtr heroics have absolutely proven that statement correct. It's amazing that stable franchises and pillars of winning (New England for example) have looked at Carr as a valid QB to lead their franchise, yet Mr random online dude is a better judge of talent. If we were doing a full rebuild, sure trade him, but you don't hire McDaniels and have that press conference for a full rebuild. Just don't do it. Now if Rodgers becomes available sure if you can get him I'm not angry. That doesn't seem realistic to me though. 

Eye test.  Carrs inability in quarters 1-3 lead to the need for late game heroics because even when the entire team is doing well he has a habit of letting the other team stick around because he is risk averse and stalls the offense.  Very similar to how Gus Bradley would get a lead and then play not to lose.  

Stats.  Just gave them to you but if you do not like them and only want to pay attention to the more generalized stats that give less of the story while still telling me you do not like stats because they cause you to miss what is going on.  So have fun picking and choosing when you stat box scout.

There was no point I said move on from Carr.  That is an easy one.

Yes you said arguably and I even repeated your phrase and stated I was just giving you the other side of the argument.

Your stable franchise also thought it was a good idea to bring in Cam Newton.  McDaniels also traded his pro bowl QB when he got to Denver.  "He has all the traits you look for. It's a good pick."  That quote is from McDaniels about Tebow who he drafted.  I do not think McDaniels opinion is so great he can not make a mistake.

So once again I only got in the conversation when you said Carr is "arguably" the best 4th quarter QB in the league.  That was all I was trying to discuss and I believe I proved my point.

[FloydFan]

5 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Eye test.  Carrs inability in quarters 1-3 lead to the need for late game heroics because even when the entire team is doing well he has a habit of letting the other team stick around because he is risk averse and stalls the offense.  Very similar to how Gus Bradley would get a lead and then play not to lose.  

Stats.  Just gave them to you but if you do not like them and only want to pay attention to the more generalized stats that give less of the story while still telling me you do not like stats because they cause you to miss what is going on.  So have fun picking and choosing when you stat box scout.

There was no point I said move on from Carr.  That is an easy one.

Yes you said arguably and I even repeated your phrase and stated I was just giving you the other side of the argument.

Your stable franchise also thought it was a good idea to bring in Cam Newton.  McDaniels also traded his pro bowl QB when he got to Denver.  "He has all the traits you look for. It's a good pick."  That quote is from McDaniels about Tebow who he drafted.  I do not think McDaniels opinion is so great he can not make a mistake.

So once again I only got in the conversation when you said Carr is "arguably" the best 4th quarter QB in the league.  That was all I was trying to discuss and I believe I proved my point.

And I believe you didn't due to willful ignorance. So what are we accomplishing? You using Cam as an example proves my point entirely. An obvious stop gap contract NE had to just get time to get a rookie and you want to use that as them hanging their hat on him for the future. Laughable and why this is a wasted argument between the two of us. I'm sorry I just don't agree with how you view Carr or the use of stats in the game. Is what it is. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by FloydFan

[NCOUGHMAN]

50 minutes ago, FloydFan said:

LOL did you listen to the whole interview? They literally cut him off at the meat of his point in that clip and his point was there isn't really a realistic upgrade this year and that he expects them to stick with Carr.

My bad my bad lol it was Ian rappaport who made the original statement 

[drfrey13]

24 minutes ago, FloydFan said:

And I believe you didn't due to willful ignorance. So what are we accomplishing? You using Cam as an example proves my point entirely. An obvious stop gap contract NE had to just get time to get a rookie and you want to use that as them hanging their hat on him for the future. Laughable and why this is a wasted argument between the two of us. I'm sorry I just don't agree with how you view Carr or the use of stats in the game. Is what it is. 

I wish we could just find some success so all these arguments did not need to happen.  I would much rather argue about who we should draft for our QB or have one that we all want to move on from.  These Carr arguments have become old over the years.  Here we are again with a team so full of holes a rebuild might not be enough.  I will be very surprised if McDaniels and Carr can get us back to the playoffs.  We can agree to disagree and that is fine as long as we both agree we just want what is best for the team.

[FloydFan]

1 minute ago, drfrey13 said:

I wish we could just find some success so all these arguments did not need to happen.  I would much rather argue about who we should draft for our QB or have one that we all want to move on from.  These Carr arguments have become old over the years.  Here we are again with a team so full of holes a rebuild might not be enough.  I will be very surprised if McDaniels and Carr can get us back to the playoffs.  We can agree to disagree and that is fine as long as we both agree we just want what is best for the team.

100% brother. It all comes from just wanting to see this team do well. I’m so tired of the Carr arguments and it’s completely grating to see them over and over. I don’t care what happens as long as we win, I just think our best chance of that is with Carr (currently), but different strokes for different folks and I respect that. I just want to see this team get back to championship contention and away from nonstop face palming. I think McD will be a good one personally and am excited for the future. I’ll be cheering for them. 

[MrOaktown_56]

6 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I wish we could just find some success so all these arguments did not need to happen.  I would much rather argue about who we should draft for our QB or have one that we all want to move on from.  These Carr arguments have become old over the years.  Here we are again with a team so full of holes a rebuild might not be enough.  I will be very surprised if McDaniels and Carr can get us back to the playoffs.  We can agree to disagree and that is fine as long as we both agree we just want what is best for the team.

They literally did it in a train wreck year. If they can't do it moving forward, I have serious doubts about the "plan".

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

They literally did it in a train wreck year. If they can't do it moving forward, I have serious doubts about the "plan".

The notion of "they made the playoffs in a train wreck year" therefor they must make it in 2022 is misguided to be. Covid played a large roll in the Raiders late season matchups. They ended up in some very favorable situations. 

Every year, nearly 50% of teams that made the playoffs, don't make it back the following year. The Raiders are certainly among the least talented teams that made the playoffs. 

I feel like a lot of Raider fans are putting a ton of weight on McDaniels to get to the playoff year one and setting themselves up to be disappointed, thus will start attacking the new regime immediately. Because the fan base has zero patience.

 

 

 

[true2form]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

The notion of "they made the playoffs in a train wreck year" therefor they must make it in 2022 is misguided to be. Covid played a large roll in the Raiders late season matchups. They ended up in some very favorable situations. 

Every year, nearly 50% of teams that made the playoffs, don't make it back the following year. The Raiders are certainly among the least talented teams that made the playoffs. 

I feel like a lot of Raider fans are putting a ton of weight on McDaniels to get to the playoff year one and setting themselves up to be disappointed, thus will start attacking the new regime immediately. Because the fan base has zero patience.

 

 

 

As usual, I'm somewhere in the middle.  You are 100% correct with the "team" that finished the season. They got some breaks and were nowhere near as talented of a roster after everything.

The "team" that I saw start the season makes me feel otherwise.  They looked pretty good with all kinds of potential to improve.

Unfortunately, neither of those "teams" will exist in 2022 so who knows what we are going to get.

[MrOaktown_56]

7 hours ago, big_palooka said:

The notion of "they made the playoffs in a train wreck year" therefor they must make it in 2022 is misguided to be. Covid played a large roll in the Raiders late season matchups. They ended up in some very favorable situations. 

Every year, nearly 50% of teams that made the playoffs, don't make it back the following year. The Raiders are certainly among the least talented teams that made the playoffs. 

I feel like a lot of Raider fans are putting a ton of weight on McDaniels to get to the playoff year one and setting themselves up to be disappointed, thus will start attacking the new regime immediately. Because the fan base has zero patience.

 

 

 

By train wreck I mean Ruggs, Gruden, and a crazy amount of injuries.
I’m not saying it’s so or die, but if we aren’t a competitive team I think it’s a reason to be concerned.

[Geezy]

9 hours ago, big_palooka said:

The notion of "they made the playoffs in a train wreck year" therefor they must make it in 2022 is misguided to be. Covid played a large roll in the Raiders late season matchups. They ended up in some very favorable situations. 

Every year, nearly 50% of teams that made the playoffs, don't make it back the following year. The Raiders are certainly among the least talented teams that made the playoffs. 

I feel like a lot of Raider fans are putting a ton of weight on McDaniels to get to the playoff year one and setting themselves up to be disappointed, thus will start attacking the new regime immediately. Because the fan base has zero patience.

 

 

 

the Raiders also started 5-2 BEFORE covid was going crazy around the league. 

you cant be a Raiders fan and have zero patience, weve been waiting on a consistent winner for 20 years. 

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, Geezy said:

the Raiders also started 5-2 BEFORE covid was going crazy around the league. 

you cant be a Raiders fan and have zero patience, weve been waiting on a consistent winner for 20 years. 

We also had all our players healthy then. Healthy mullen was also a big loss. He looked good early.

[BackinBlack]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

We also had all our players healthy then. Healthy mullen was also a big loss. He looked good early.

also we say how Wentz had covid so clearly he was effected and thats why we beat the colts, and then say at the same time we got Waller back so Carr had his weapons. . . but no one seems to think, maybe Waller was also feeling the covid fog?
Who woulda thought . . arguments only go one way to prove someones point on this site haha

[MrOaktown_56]

3 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

also we say how Wentz had covid so clearly he was effected and thats why we beat the colts, and then say at the same time we got Waller back so Carr had his weapons. . . but no one seems to think, maybe Waller was also feeling the covid fog?
Who woulda thought . . arguments only go one way to prove someones point on this site haha

Lost both starting guards, one starting corner, one starting safety, our best receiver, our best offensive player, and still were competitive all year. That’s pretty good I’d say.

[BackinBlack]

Just now, MrOaktown_56 said:

Lost both starting guards, one starting corner, one starting safety, our best receiver, our best offensive player, and still were competitive all year. That’s pretty good I’d say.

For sure, our depth has gotten a lot better in the past 5 years. 
Gruden gutted this team, (from an already thin roster lol), and while obviously he and mayock struggled big time in the early rounds of drafts. They were at least able to bring in players worthy of a roster spot LOL. 

Our depth in some season was pathetic when injuries happened (which they always will).
now our 3rd stringers at some positions, actually have upside.

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, BackinBlack said:

For sure, our depth has gotten a lot better in the past 5 years. 
Gruden gutted this team, (from an already thin roster lol), and while obviously he and mayock struggled big time in the early rounds of drafts. They were at least able to bring in players worthy of a roster spot LOL. 

Our depth in some season was pathetic when injuries happened (which they always will).
now our 3rd stringers at some positions, actually have upside.

I rewatched the playoff game with the impression that we have a few key guys that we need. Everyone else can go. Parker and our backup corners need to be outta here. I see it being a good assignment to rebuild because a qb, left tackle, and good edge rushers are hard to find.