The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[SimonGruber]

13 hours ago, G said:

Carr fan and we've always said he's a 20-20 yard line QB. I totally want him to improve in the red zone but we've also had the worst weapons from breaking out big plays and never getting into the red zone because it's a TD. Ruggs had that ability and the current weapons do too but Waller/Renfrow aren't playing as well as they were and Adams and Carr are still getting chemistry back. Hollins be making plays but Nelly would be scoring before we get into the redzone. 

Carr gave him the opportunity to make plays and he did but that 2020 year seems to be fluky imo 

[BackinBlack]

Cleaned up the fumbles a little bit too (knock on wood).

much easier on a qb when your rb is beastint. 
 

can’t believe some blame Carr over waller on that drop too lol

[drfrey13]

35 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Cleaned up the fumbles a little bit too (knock on wood).

much easier on a qb when your rb is beastint. 
 

can’t believe some blame Carr over waller on that drop too lol

Just start at the 1:17 mark and then watch the next play.  You can even watch in between the plays to see what appears to be Carr apologizing for the throw placement.  Same route and the throw even later.  I wonder why Waller had problems concentrating on the catch.  He is a professional and needs to make that catch but Carr set him up twice going over the middle and it was 2 minutes a part.  So yes Carr does deserve some blame.

It is also helmet to helmet on both plays.

Edited October 26, 2022 by drfrey13

[BackinBlack]

3 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Just start at the 1:17 mark and then watch the next play.  You can even watch in between the plays to see what appears to be Carr apologizing for the throw placement.  Same route and the throw even later.  I wonder why Waller had problems concentrating on the catch.  He is a professional and needs to make that catch but Carr set him up twice going over the middle and it was 2 minutes a part.  So yes Carr does deserve some blame.

It is also helmet to helmet on both plays.

100 percent ball placement could have been better. . but if he leads him, waller still gets hit. Maybe worse, as he wouldn’t be slowing down. 
could almost make the claim, if Carr lead him it would’ve been a suicide pass.

I have a strange feeling, if ball was led in front of him, some would blame Carr. 
 

a low ball, would’ve been best. 

carr owns up to it, as a leader and takes the blame.

waller gets two hands on it, both feet on ground. Needs to catch it. 
If waller doesn’t want to go over the middle, that’s on him. Unfortunately as a pass catching TE, I expect him to get hit going over the middle. 
if he doesn’t want to, let’s find a TE who will.

 

thats 80% on waller, imo. 
 

[drfrey13]

6 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

100 percent ball placement could have been better. . but if he leads him, waller still gets hit. Maybe worse, as he wouldn’t be slowing down. 
could almost make the claim, if Carr lead him it would’ve been a suicide pass.

I have a strange feeling, if ball was led in front of him, some would blame Carr. 
 

a low ball, would’ve been best. 

carr owns up to it, as a leader and takes the blame.

waller gets two hands on it, both feet on ground. Needs to catch it. 
If waller doesn’t want to go over the middle, that’s on him. Unfortunately as a pass catching TE, I expect him to get hit going over the middle. 
if he doesn’t want to, let’s find a TE who will.

 

thats 80% on waller, imo. 
 

The ball placement was bad and should have been low or he needs to go somewhere else with the ball.  My point was he had just left him hanging a couple minutes prior.  If it is just the single play I put it mostly on Waller and agree with you.  Him doing it twice after he just got rocked it is 50/50 or more towards Carr.  Can not make that type of mistake twice in that short of time.  Once again it was a case that if Carr's vision in the red zone is better he probably sees the LB sneaking back into coverage.  Regardless a QB should know that pass automatically should be thrown low.  Should have been flagged on both plays.  Carr and Waller where just not connecting that day.

[BackinBlack]

3 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

The ball placement was bad and should have been low or he needs to go somewhere else with the ball.  My point was he had just left him hanging a couple minutes prior.  If it is just the single play I put it mostly on Waller and agree with you.  Him doing it twice after he just got rocked it is 50/50 or more towards Carr.  Can not make that type of mistake twice in that short of time.  Once again it was a case that if Carr's vision in the red zone is better he probably sees the LB sneaking back into coverage.  Regardless a QB should know that pass automatically should be thrown low.  Should have been flagged on both plays.  Carr and Waller where just not connecting that day.

Yeah I agree with pretty much all that too. 
Low ball also ends in a drop down, instead of tip up if not caught. Definitely where the ball should’ve gone.

waller got rocked 2 mins earlier, (or however long earlier) maybe Josh shouldn’t be calling him to go over the middle right after again. It seems waller was 1st read there. 
I’m guessing waller said he was good and to keep them coming after the first one, when clearly it was on his mind. (All players do this, see Tua, they love playing and no the risks) 

carr and waller haven’t connected all season, maybe the hammy been effecting him more then let on too. 
 

If they can get going, along with the rest of the O we really can be scary. 
 

carr will not throw a perfect ball every time, and drops happen. Just sucks when they result in Redzone turnovers. A drop there without the int and we win that game most likely.

[Rich7sena]

QB play has been worse league-wide, but Carr has been among the more stable starters in the league. He has played well behind Josh Jacobs. I am curious to see whether defenses start to play the run more--I heard that teams play 2-high against the Raiders among the highest rate in the league.

[NickButera]

You know, watching last week's games and tonight's games with one thing I'm counting, how many "not well placed balls" other elite qbs throw. 

Don't get me wrong, as Carr gets older I'm more open to the idea of replacing him under the right circumstance. However Every other QB I've watch, including tonights match, makes sooo many not perfectly placed balls. Now that I'm actually counting, it's a lot more than I thought. I already assumed Carr makes more errant throws than the normal top 12 QB, but I'm beginning to doubt that. 

[Totty]

1 hour ago, NickButera said:

You know, watching last week's games and tonight's games with one thing I'm counting, how many "not well placed balls" other elite qbs throw. 

Don't get me wrong, as Carr gets older I'm more open to the idea of replacing him under the right circumstance. However Every other QB I've watch, including tonights match, makes sooo many not perfectly placed balls. Now that I'm actually counting, it's a lot more than I thought. I already assumed Carr makes more errant throws than the normal top 12 QB, but I'm beginning to doubt that. 

It's something that the Carr supporting crew has been vocal about.  While this is a QB driven league, other QBs have other aspects in the team that can help bail them out.  It's not all on the QB.  

[drfrey13]

4 hours ago, NickButera said:

You know, watching last week's games and tonight's games with one thing I'm counting, how many "not well placed balls" other elite qbs throw. 

Don't get me wrong, as Carr gets older I'm more open to the idea of replacing him under the right circumstance. However Every other QB I've watch, including tonights match, makes sooo many not perfectly placed balls. Now that I'm actually counting, it's a lot more than I thought. I already assumed Carr makes more errant throws than the normal top 12 QB, but I'm beginning to doubt that. 

I think we are to emotionally involved to give good information about our players in the moment.  I go back and re-watch games and many times come away wondering why I had a particular opinion.  Once you know the outcome it is easier to critique.  I also agree that many times the announcers will sway you in a particular direction more than if you watched the game with the sound off.  I do not know how many times I have seen QBs underthrow a pass and the announcers say beautiful back shoulder pass and I start to doubt my own eyes.

[Darbsk]

On 10/26/2022 at 4:41 AM, drfrey13 said:

Just start at the 1:17 mark and then watch the next play.  You can even watch in between the plays to see what appears to be Carr apologizing for the throw placement.  Same route and the throw even later.  I wonder why Waller had problems concentrating on the catch.  He is a professional and needs to make that catch but Carr set him up twice going over the middle and it was 2 minutes a part.  So yes Carr does deserve some blame.

It is also helmet to helmet on both plays.

Watched it a dozen times. When you’re paying a TE that much he must, simply must, make that catch.

With regard the placement, it hit him square in the hands directly in front of him and he didn’t catch it, if Carr throws it behind not to lead him into the defender there is no chance he catches it, he can’t lead him as the defender would hit him harder so the only place he could put it is lower but if you look at the pass rush that is asking an awful lot. He maybe could but again, much more chance of a tip at the line etc.

If your TE needs absolutely perfect placement to make a crucial catch, then he’s not a big time player and not worth 17 million a year. Expecting perfect ball placement is unrealistic in a live game situation. 

[Darbsk]

On 10/26/2022 at 5:03 AM, drfrey13 said:

The ball placement was bad and should have been low or he needs to go somewhere else with the ball.  My point was he had just left him hanging a couple minutes prior.  If it is just the single play I put it mostly on Waller and agree with you.  Him doing it twice after he just got rocked it is 50/50 or more towards Carr.  Can not make that type of mistake twice in that short of time.  Once again it was a case that if Carr's vision in the red zone is better he probably sees the LB sneaking back into coverage.  Regardless a QB should know that pass automatically should be thrown low.  Should have been flagged on both plays.  Carr and Waller where just not connecting that day.

I don’t agree. Watch the pass rush again, he can’t realistically put it much lower without a huge chance of the DLine batting it up or down, unless he kind of lobs it then the defender can make a play on it. I think it’s unrealistic to expect a perfect ball there.

The pass was fine, not 100%, but absolutely fine, you NEED your supposed playmakers to make a play there. 
 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Darbsk

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

Watched it a dozen times. When you’re paying a TE that much he must, simply must, make that catch.

With regard the placement, it hit him square in the hands directly in front of him and he didn’t catch it, if Carr throws it behind not to lead him into the defender there is no chance he catches it, he can’t lead him as the defender would hit him harder so the only place he could put it is lower but if you look at the pass rush that is asking an awful lot. He maybe could but again, much more chance of a tip at the line etc.

If your TE needs absolutely perfect placement to make a crucial catch, then he’s not a big time player and not worth 17 million a year. Expecting perfect ball placement is unrealistic in a live game situation. 

I agree he needs to make the catch.  On the flip side if a TE making $17  million a year needs to make that catch then a QB making $40 million needs to be able to make the correct throw.  I put the blame on both equally given all the circumstances.

[Darbsk]

58 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I agree he needs to make the catch.  On the flip side if a TE making $17  million a year needs to make that catch then a QB making $40 million needs to be able to make the correct throw.  I put the blame on both equally given all the circumstances.

He put the ball right in his hands for Christ’s sake. You all know where I stand on Carr but this kind of criticism is absurd. He picked the right option, threw to the right guy at the right time and put the ball directly in front of him where he got squared up and got both hands on it.

By all means, criticise away for the first game, the QB was terrible but this is just criticism for the sake of criticism. 

[drfrey13]

6 hours ago, Darbsk said:

He put the ball right in his hands for Christ’s sake. You all know where I stand on Carr but this kind of criticism is absurd. He picked the right option, threw to the right guy at the right time and put the ball directly in front of him where he got squared up and got both hands on it.

By all means, criticise away for the first game, the QB was terrible but this is just criticism for the sake of criticism. 

How many big shots do you think a player takes before it is understandable that he grows alligator arms?  That throw is low or you go somewhere else.  If Carr is getting $40 per he should know that.  I agree he needs to make the catch but it is a ball that should not be thrown.  Also it should have been a personal foul but the refs did not want to throw another one after just giving us 15 yards on a very similar throw.  If Carr gets that ball at the numbers or lower he probably catches it.