Tight Ends - Best of the rest

[SaveOurSonics]

On 5/8/2020 at 10:46 AM, animaltested said:

Really wish Will Dissly didn't get IR'd in back to back years.

Only 8 full games played in two seasons ; 

30 Rec // 413 Yds // 13.5 YPR // 6 TDs

When fully healthy, there's no doubt in my mind that Dissly is a top 6 TE in this league. He's up there with the elites when it comes to blocking and he is hyper efficient down the field on contested catches. IIRC he led all TEs in Yards per Route and TD% last year before going down. 

Nonetheless, as you elude to, his health is a huge question mark and the main reason why it's very difficult to include him on these types of lists. With that said I would go: 

1. Kittle
2. Kelce
3. Ertz
4. Andrews
5. Goedert 
6. Hooper
7. Waller
8. Henry 
9. Dissly
10. Higbee (primed to rise) 

I'm not including a guy in Gronk who has lost years and weight since we last saw him. I want to include Hockenson, but I think we need to see more out of him before he makes this list. Jared Cook is more of a big slot receiver with bad hands. Noah Fant is currently a combination of Hock and Cook (simply based off my one-sentence explanation of both being off this list). I also think Chris Herndon and Gerald Everett have monster potential, but I'd like to see that materialize a bit more. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by SaveOurSonics

[byrdbrane]

Top 10

1.Kittles

2. Kelce

3. Ertz

4. Goedert

5. Waller

6. Andrews

7 Hooper

8 Dissly

9 Henry

10 Cook

 

My reason for ranking Goedert right behind Zach comes from PFF (go ahead boo me) showing Goedert grades high in pass catching AND blocking- where most TE are really good in one area and average or poor in the other.I think if he wasnt behind Ertz on the depth chart- his offense numbers would be silly- he doesnt get nearly the amount of targets Ertz gets

Edited May 29, 2020 by byrdbrane

[MrOaktown_56]

1.Kelce

2.Kittle

3.Ertz

4.Waller

After that, I see a glut of Andrews, Hooper, Henry, Cook, etc.

I like those top 2 and top 4 over the field though.

Waller will be better in year 2 if our new WR and a healthy Tyrell Williams can take some pressure off him. For those who haven't watched him enough, just see his 70+ yard screen catch against Denver to see the kind of athlete this guy is.

[Hunter2_1]

I personally think Hooper is being ranked a bit too high, I think he's the classic "get what he's allowed to, nothing more" type of player. Someone you have to scheme for. Which is absolutely fine, if everyone had a player like that, they'll find production there. But top be in top 7 or so, is too much for someone like that when other TE's force defenses to adjust. 

 

He has a league-high 75.5% of his receiving yards on targets defined as 'holes' in zone or underneath the defense since 2016.  He's not very productive against man coverage, he doesn't really separate that well (PFF, strictly in man coverage, have him dead last among the 10 tight ends with 500 or more routes run vs. man). Hooper is averaging nearly a full yard per route run more against zone coverage (1.76) than man coverage (0.82).

 

So, certainly a useful piece to have, excels in soft zones, but if you bump him up - he'll struggle.

[Letsch80]

5 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

1.Kelce

2.Kittle

3.Ertz

4.Waller

After that, I see a glut of Andrews, Hooper, Henry, Cook, etc.

I like those top 2 and top 4 over the field though.

Waller will be better in year 2 if our new WR and a healthy Tyrell Williams can take some pressure off him. For those who haven't watched him enough, just see his 70+ yard screen catch against Denver to see the kind of athlete this guy is.

Andrews >Waller

Last year Andrews had 10 touchdowns and this year he doesn't have Hurst taking work away from him. Not to mention he plays in a superior offense that creates gaping holes for him in the middle of the field.. 

Yes I am biased 

[SaveOurSonics]

11 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

I personally think Hooper is being ranked a bit too high, I think he's the classic "get what he's allowed to, nothing more" type of player. Someone you have to scheme for. Which is absolutely fine, if everyone had a player like that, they'll find production there. But top be in top 7 or so, is too much for someone like that when other TE's force defenses to adjust. 

 

He has a league-high 75.5% of his receiving yards on targets defined as 'holes' in zone or underneath the defense since 2016.  He's not very productive against man coverage, he doesn't really separate that well (PFF, strictly in man coverage, have him dead last among the 10 tight ends with 500 or more routes run vs. man). Hooper is averaging nearly a full yard per route run more against zone coverage (1.76) than man coverage (0.82).

 

So, certainly a useful piece to have, excels in soft zones, but if you bump him up - he'll struggle.

I think that all is a very fair point. I admittedly was hesitant putting him as high as I did, but considering his consistent breakout season as a receiver paired with his ability as a blocker, it only felt right to have him at #6. He's a guy who could very easily be left off of top 10 lists altogether this time next year. 

[Hunter2_1]

So, a season pretty much gone...

Probably have it something like this now;

1. Kelce

2. Kittle

3. Waller

4. Andrews

5. Goedert

6. Hockenson

7. Henry

8. Ertz

9. Engram

 

An underrated option would be Schultz or Thomas, for me. 

[Bearerofnews]

1. Kelce

2. Kittle

3. Waller

4. Henry

5. Hock

6. Andrews

7. Geisicki

8. Tonyan

9. Engram

10. Fant

11. Logan

12. Goedert

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, Bearerofnews said:

1. Kelce

2. Kittle

3. Waller

4. Henry

5. Hock

6. Andrews

7. Geisicki

8. Tonyan

9. Engram

10. Fant

11. Logan

12. Goedert

What would be your argument for placing those two names above Mark Andrews? They’ve had less production with similar quality QB play. They also don’t grade out the same as Andrews (and it’s not particularly close in those grades.)

I don’t watch Goedert enough as well, but what I’ve watched definitely would have him above some of those other guys as well. Though I’m willing to let someone else argue that case.

[incognito_man]

To showcase how ridiculously efficient Robert Tonyan has been (18th in targets), extrapolating his targets to match Kelce/Waller targets he would be sitting at:

118 receptions, 1,322 yards, 24 TDs

[Bearerofnews]

25 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

What would be your argument for placing those two names above Mark Andrews? They’ve had less production with similar quality QB play. They also don’t grade out the same as Andrews (and it’s not particularly close in those grades.)

I don’t watch Goedert enough as well, but what I’ve watched definitely would have him above some of those other guys as well. Though I’m willing to let someone else argue that case.

I was going to say they have been more productive. But i just realized he played 2 less games. So id prolly slide him above Henry.

[Jeezla]

52 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

To showcase how ridiculously efficient Robert Tonyan has been (18th in targets), extrapolating his targets to match Kelce/Waller targets he would be sitting at:

118 receptions, 1,322 yards, 24 TDs

To showcase how ridiculously efficient MVS is, extrapolating his targets to match Davante Adams he would be sitting at: over 2000 yards and about 17 td's. Rodgers must be an idiot for not using the two most effecient playmakers in the NFL more often.

[incognito_man]

20 minutes ago, Jeezla said:

To showcase how ridiculously efficient MVS is, extrapolating his targets to match Davante Adams he would be sitting at: over 2000 yards and about 17 td's. Rodgers must be an idiot for not using the two most effecient playmakers in the NFL more often.

No argument here. He's a real idiot.

[Mr Bad Example]

3 hours ago, Jeezla said:

To showcase how ridiculously efficient MVS is, extrapolating his targets to match Davante Adams he would be sitting at: over 2000 yards and about 17 td's. Rodgers must be an idiot for not using the two most effecient playmakers in the NFL more often.

I"m getting about 1300 yds and 11 tds, I'm not sure where your math is coming from. 

[diamondbull424]

15 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

I was going to say they have been more productive. But i just realized he played 2 less games. So id prolly slide him above Henry.

Yup, he lost the games due to covid, but even considering that as an “injury”, his YPT numbers and catch% numbers outclass TJ Hock quite easily, he’s also the superior red zone/TD threat. Plus his blocking has caught up, he’s not Nick Boyle or Kittle, but he’s certainly as good as it gets for most of the other receiving TEs, something like a young Jason Witten. I’d consider Henry on a similar tier as Andrews (even if I find Andrews superior), but I don’t think TJ Hock is on the same tier as these two ATM. 

The only ‘hole’ in Andrews game is that he’s generally automatic as a receiver, but he’ll have the occasional and random game where he can’t catch to save his life. Last season it was the games against the Seahawks and Bills, this season it was the game against the Chiefs.

Overshare: Adding another go-to WR threat would insulate against those rare occurrences however and would allow Andrews to receiver far less double coverage as he saw to start the year in our 12 and 22 personnel groupings. Boyle going down has allowed Andrew’s to enjoy FAR more single coverage opportunities (hence his increased production), but considering our coaching staff... I’m sure the moment Boyle is back they’ll go back to those groupings and thus Andrews would benefit from a guy that can draw coverage away from him in those situations.