BAM Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 On 12/19/2021 at 4:34 PM, Old Guy said: At 12 years old to be that good, yeah it is a surprise. How many legends kids have turned out to be this good? Archie Manning is the only one I can think of. Football The Matthews, Clay Sr, Jr, III, Bruce, Jake The Mannings, Archie, Peyton, Eli The Longs, Howie, Chris, Kyle The McCaffrey, Ed and Christian The Bosas, John, Joey & Nick The Slaters, Jackie and Matthew The Hasselbecks, Don, Matt & Tim The Runyans, Jon Sr. & Jr. The Metcalfs, Terrence and DK The Grieses, Bob and Brian The Burrows, Jim and Joe The Reagors, Montae and Jalen 3 Gen's of Kupps, Jake, Craig & Cooper are a few, moving beyond football Felipe & Moises Alou, baseball Ray, Bob, Brett, Aaron Boone, baseball Cecil and Prince Fielder, baseball Ken Griffey Sr. and Jr., baseball Sandy Sr & Jr, Roberto Alomar Dell and Stephen Curry, basketball Rick, Brent, Jon, Drew & Scooter Barry (50+ yrs multiple generations) basketball Bobby and Brett Hull, Hockey Calvin and Grant Hill, football/basketball Ken Norton Sr. and Jr., boxing/football Yannick & Joakim Noah, tennis/basketball Lee, Richard, Kyle Petty, racing Dale Earnhardt Sr & Jr, racing MORE include: Joe and Kobe Bryant Dolph and Danny Schayes Tony Gwynn Sr and Jr Doc and Austin Rivers Mario and Michael Andretti Jimmy Walker and Jalen Rose Greg and Ryan Malone Bill and Luke Walton Mike Dunleavy Sr and Jr The Ripkens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, BAM said: Football The Matthews, Clay Sr, Jr, III, Bruce, Jake The Mannings, Archie, Peyton, Eli The Longs, Howie, Chris, Kyle The McCaffrey, Ed and Christian The Bosas, John, Joey & Nick The Slaters, Jackie and Matthew The Hasselbecks, Don, Matt & Tim The Runyans, Jon Sr. & Jr. The Metcalfs, Terrence and DK The Grieses, Bob and Brian The Burrows, Jim and Joe The Reagors, Montae and Jalen 3 Gen's of Kupps, Jake, Craig & Cooper are a few, moving beyond football Felipe & Moises Alou, baseball Ray, Bob, Brett, Aaron Boone, baseball Cecil and Prince Fielder, baseball Ken Griffey Sr. and Jr., baseball Sandy Sr & Jr, Roberto Alomar Dell and Stephen Curry, basketball Rick, Brent, Jon, Drew & Scooter Barry (50+ yrs multiple generations) basketball Bobby and Brett Hull, Hockey Calvin and Grant Hill, football/basketball Ken Norton Sr. and Jr., boxing/football Yannick & Joakim Noah, tennis/basketball Lee, Richard, Kyle Petty, racing Dale Earnhardt Sr & Jr, racing MORE include: Joe and Kobe Bryant Dolph and Danny Schayes Tony Gwynn Sr and Jr Doc and Austin Rivers Mario and Michael Andretti Jimmy Walker and Jalen Rose Greg and Ryan Malone Bill and Luke Walton Mike Dunleavy Sr and Jr The Ripkens... And what do they all have in common? NONE were the GOAT at their profession and had an offspring who was wildly successful. Now, it's a bit early to crown Tigers son, but he's got a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 On 12/23/2021 at 11:23 AM, Old Guy said: And what do they all have in common? NONE were the GOAT at their profession and had an offspring who was wildly successful. Now, it's a bit early to crown Tigers son, but he's got a chance. No sport has a consensus GOAT Basketball has MJ/LBJ/KAJ Football has Brady/Montana/Rice/Brown/Ogden(fill in your LT of choice here)/Matthews/Jones/Deion/Lewis/ETC Baseball has Ruth/Bonds/Mays/Hell it's time to start talking about Mike Trout 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonKarman Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 Brady is the GOAT in football. There's no debate there. No one comes close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: No sport has a consensus GOAT Basketball has MJ/LBJ/KAJ Football has Brady/Montana/Rice/Brown/Ogden(fill in your LT of choice here)/Matthews/Jones/Deion/Lewis/ETC Baseball has Ruth/Bonds/Mays/Hell it's time to start talking about Mike Trout MJ is the GOAT in basketball, hands down. It's not really debatable. Kobe wouldn't be in the discussion at all if it weren't for his tragic death. Coming from a huge Jack Nicklaus fan, Tiger also is the GOAT in golf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Old Guy said: MJ is the GOAT in basketball, hands down. It's not really debatable. Kobe wouldn't be in the discussion at all if it weren't for his tragic death. Coming from a huge Jack Nicklaus fan, Tiger also is the GOAT in golf. Why is Jordan the consensus GOAT in basketball? The most respected basketball board put together their Top 100 list and Jordan came in 2nd. His lack of longevity in comparison to LeBron and Kareem absolutely make this a conversation. https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2004777 Kobe isn't even in the top 10. What the hell are you talking about? He's got one MVP in his entire career. Duncan, Shaq, and Garnett pretty easily edge him out in his own era. That you're even implying that Kobe is somehow #2 means you have absolutely ZERO business having this conversation. Edited December 26, 2021 by AlexGreen#20 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 1 hour ago, VonKarman said: Brady is the GOAT in football. There's no debate there. No one comes close. Brady is the most successful player of all-time, for sure. He's not the greatest talent, whatsoever. There's a distinct difference. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 44 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Why is Jordan the consensus GOAT in basketball? The most respected basketball board put together their Top 100 list and Jordan came in 2nd. His lack of longevity in comparison to LeBron and Kareem absolutely make this a conversation. https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2004777 Kobe isn't even in the top 10. What the hell are you talking about? He's got one MVP in his entire career. Duncan, Shaq, and Garnett pretty easily edge him out in his own era. That you're even implying that Kobe is somehow #2 means you have absolutely ZERO business having this conversation. My mistake on Kobe, I didn't read your first post close enough and just assumed he was the third set of initials, which were for Jabbar obviously. BTW, NO WAY did I come close to making an assumption Kobe was #2. I agree he's not top 10. Jordan did it with Pippen and a bunch of JAGs. LeBron didn't win until he put together a "super team'. Even in Cleveland he needed to bring in additional guys. I'm not saying he isn't in the top 5 but he's not #1. Kareem had Magic, Worthy, Scott and Cooper plus some pretty good role players. In Milwaukee Kareem had Osar Roberson who is a top 10 all-time guy IMO. He also had Bobby Dandridge who was an all-star. Just ask all the guys on the '92 Dream Team (greatest basketball team ever assembled) who the GOAT is. UNANIMOUS that it's MJ. MJ's career was shorter because he had to stay in college 3 years, it was the rule back then. Also, the baseball 'hiatus' which was likely a suspension for gambling IMO. MJ is a better shooter than LeBron, better passer and clearly a better defender. He was a much better clutch player too. Probably the greatest clutch player of all time. Which playoff series did LeBron just will his team to victory? MJ did it in every close series and 6 Finals series. These 'boards' always tend to favor the guys who are playing currently. It's obvious when you look at the rankings. Tim Duncan isn't top 10. The five guys below him all should be above him. So should Jerry West and Oscar Robertson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker90 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 Isn’t Gretzky considered by practically everyone as the GOAT ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Old Guy said: Jordan did it with Pippen and a bunch of JAGs. Lol no he didn't 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said: Isn’t Gretzky considered by practically everyone as the GOAT ? Lot of Super Mario supporters out there including myself. The only difference between the two is games played. Mario was like 35, after coming back from cancer twice, and still putting up nearly 2 PPG. Mario's pace is very, very similar to Gretzky's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Old Guy said: MJ is a better shooter than LeBron, better passer and clearly a better defender. He was a much better clutch player too. Probably the greatest clutch player of all time. Which playoff series did LeBron just will his team to victory? MJ did it in every close series and 6 Finals series. These 'boards' always tend to favor the guys who are playing currently. It's obvious when you look at the rankings. Tim Duncan isn't top 10. The five guys below him all should be above him. So should Jerry West and Oscar Robertson. All this is complete nonsense lol I'm with family, and on my phone, otherwise I'd rip this apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 22 minutes ago, beekay414 said: All this is complete nonsense lol I'm with family, and on my phone, otherwise I'd rip this apart. take your best shot, MJ is the GOAT and I don't even really like him being a Bucks fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Old Guy said: My mistake on Kobe, I didn't read your first post close enough and just assumed he was the third set of initials, which were for Jabbar obviously. BTW, NO WAY did I come close to making an assumption Kobe was #2. I agree he's not top 10. Jordan did it with Pippen and a bunch of JAGs. LeBron didn't win until he put together a "super team'. Even in Cleveland he needed to bring in additional guys. I'm not saying he isn't in the top 5 but he's not #1. Kareem had Magic, Worthy, Scott and Cooper plus some pretty good role players. In Milwaukee Kareem had Osar Roberson who is a top 10 all-time guy IMO. He also had Bobby Dandridge who was an all-star. Just ask all the guys on the '92 Dream Team (greatest basketball team ever assembled) who the GOAT is. UNANIMOUS that it's MJ. MJ's career was shorter because he had to stay in college 3 years, it was the rule back then. Also, the baseball 'hiatus' which was likely a suspension for gambling IMO. MJ is a better shooter than LeBron, better passer and clearly a better defender. He was a much better clutch player too. Probably the greatest clutch player of all time. Which playoff series did LeBron just will his team to victory? MJ did it in every close series and 6 Finals series. These 'boards' always tend to favor the guys who are playing currently. It's obvious when you look at the rankings. Tim Duncan isn't top 10. The five guys below him all should be above him. So should Jerry West and Oscar Robertson. Dennis Rodman wasn't a JAG. Toni Kukoc wasn't a JAG. Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr, etc weren't JAGs. They were good productive players that went on to have long and legitimate careers in their own right. Tearing down good role players to prop up Jordan is a staple of the Nike media campaign that is the primary reason so many believe he was untouchable. Jordan is the most fortunate of all the GOAT candidates in that his front office was able to put legitimate talent around him and his rosters weren't gutted. People talk about Lebron leaving Cleveland and cite super teams, but the best teammate Lebron ever played with in Cleveland round #1 is who? Larry Hughes, zombie Amare? As far as Kareem leaving to play with more talent, and playing with stars, he kinda had to. There were 17 teams in the league and all the talent was on like 6 of them. That isn't even getting into the racial **** that Kareem (and to an even greater extent Oscar went through in Milwaukee (and Cincinnati) Kareem's last year in Milwaukee was also Oscar's last year in Milwaukee. He retired and was a shell of his former self. Cincinnati isn't around anymore, so people remember Oscar with Milwaukee. He played 10 seasons with Cincinnati and only played his 32 to 35 years in Milwaukee. His best year in Milwaukee (first year, it's only fell off predictably) was a 19.4/8.2/5.7 year. A massive cry from 61 to 68 where he averaged 31.1/11.1/9.4. Oscar wasn't a star anymore and Dandridge was a fringe all star. Also, Kareem had to stay for 4 years and wasn't even allowed to play college ball as a freshman. By what measure is Jordan a better shooter than Lebron? It certainly wasn't 3 point shooting. (Removing 94-96 where the league moved the 3 point line up) Jordan shot over 30% 3 times. Lebron has shot over 30% 18 times (every year except his rookie year). We only have Jordan's shooting splits in his last two years with the Bulls in which he shot: 0-3: 59% 3-10: 41.6% 10-16: 45.6% 16-3pt: 49% 3pt: 29.3% *ish, I eyeballed this one, having to take out the moved in 3 point line. Lebron meanwhile shot: 0-3: 74.3% 3-10: 42.5% 10-16: 37.5% 16-3pt: 38.8% 3 point: 34.7% So, no, Jordan isn't really a better shooter than Lebron. He's better from 10-3 point. Lebron is better from 0-10 and from 3. +++ As far as passing ability. . . Based on what? Lebron has: More assists (9840 vs 5633) Higher Assist Percentage (36.5% vs 24.9%) More assists per game (7.4 vs 5.3) And assisted on a higher percentage of his teams points. By what measure is Jordan a passer? +++ I have no idea where you're getting a better defender from? Defensive impact is almost impossible to be as impactful for Guards. It's the biggest reason that the Top 5 lists are hugely populated by Bigs. Lebron's impact to rim protection alone is more impactful than Jordan's defense and that doesn't take into account that LeBron was also an elite man defender. It also doesn't take into account that he's one of only a handful of guys capable of being an elite defender at every position. +++ Clutch stats are hard to collect and while Jordan does seem to have an edge, LeBron is also really really good there. As far as LeBron not dominating a series and willing his team to victory. Have you watched the NBA in the last 20 years. He has the most impressive finals win in NBA history. +++ Why the duck wouldn't Tim Duncan be Top 10? Duncan has 2 MVPs 3 FMVPs, probably was robbed of a few more by not being flashy. arguably the second best defender ever. One of only 2 Stars to win a championship without a second star. Absolutely INSANE longevity. Freakish on/off splits. Incredible playoff resume. Rings galore. About the only thing Duncan lacked was tremendous shot making capability and eye popping scoring efficiency. Tim Duncan was an absolute MONSTER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker90 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 32 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Lot of Super Mario supporters out there including myself. The only difference between the two is games played. Mario was like 35, after coming back from cancer twice, and still putting up nearly 2 PPG. Mario's pace is very, very similar to Gretzky's. Interesting. I’ve just never heard the conversation of anyone else, but I’m still new. In arm wrestling ( f****** sick sport to get into) John Brzenk is considered the goat by almost every one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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