Giants at Bears - Week 2

[dll2000]

Since we won I will make thread again.   I notice other boards are superstitious about that.

I watched Giants game one time through on condensed.

Some quick notes from game.

Defense:

Their #25 CB cannot play what is his name our lads ... Ballentine.  He can run, but he has no ball or tackling skills.  Attack him often.   He is a definite weak spot that can be exploited.  You are risking nothing but an incompletion throwing in his direction if he doesn't have help.  

Their DL is huge and strong.   It is going to be hard to run against them or move them even with our improved interior OL.  But their pass rush skills are not great.   Martinez flies around on the run when he is untouched behind that line - but we all know from GB he can't cover.   Peppers in not greatest safety in coverage either.

All that together says your game plan should not be to force the run against this team.   Attack them where they are weak not where they are strong.   Try to get ball to whoever 25 or Martinez is covering.   Even if you want the run to be your identity.     Make those fat DL run and chase side line to sideline on some WR screens and jet sweeps.   Run in second half to close the game when they are gassed.

Their DC does tries to do exotic things upfront to trick you.  Be ready for it and stick to rules.  Don't panic and blow assignments like last year.

Offense:

Their O line is not great.   That is their biggest weakness on offense.   

Barkley did not play well, but it wasn't him.  Pitt just hit him backfield.  He is still their primary threat and can kill you.   He is better than Peterson by a wide margin.

 Bears should not play so vanilla this week like they did last week.  Especially if Quinn is not playing again or is not 100%.   Pagano needs to dial some stuff up.

Aside from Barkley their weapons are not particularly scary.   So goal should be to make them one dimensional and then rush in exotic ways on favorable downs.   

I think Jones is an underrated QB and he can also definitely beat you with his legs.  He is faster than he seems.

I don't want to see Trevathan covering WRs this week or ever again.

Special teams:

Don't punt it to Peppers in a way he can return it with room.  He can take it house on you.  You will be possibly spotting a not great team 6 pts.   Better to give them 5 - 10 yards better field position with hang time or punting out of bounds.   He is more a great running back than a safety.

 

 

 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

I think the Giants are a lot better than people think, Jones too.  Watched a bit of the Steelers game and thought they actually looked pretty good, went to bed early and was really surprised that the Steelers won that.  Ben looked like he got injured on multiple plays. 

Jones looks like Bruce Campbell and Eli had a baby.  Enjoy thinking that every time you see him. 

[Nads786]

Jones is a pick machine - has he gone a game without throwing a interception? 

[beardown3231]

12 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

Jones is a pick machine - has he gone a game without throwing a interception? 

Not many, no. He also was sacked and fumbled last year in Chicago thanks to Mack. It gave the Bears the ball on NYG's ~10.

Bears win 24-23

[dll2000]

Mack and Quinn should be doing walk through stuff only.  If that.  

[JAF-N72EX]

3 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

I think the Giants are a lot better than people think, Jones too.  Watched a bit of the Steelers game and thought they actually looked pretty good, went to bed early and was really surprised that the Steelers won that.  Ben looked like he got injured on multiple plays. 

Jones looks like Bruce Campbell and Eli had a baby.  Enjoy thinking that every time you see him. 

Their OL was completely out of sync the whole game. I can't begin to count how many times I saw free rushers come in untouched. Now I don't know if that's a testiment to the good defense they played against or if they are really THAT bad. Way too early to tell yet.

But one thing I do know is this is a good opportunity for our DL to bounce back after a lackluster game. 

[dll2000]

7 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Their OL was completely out of sync the whole game. I can't begin to count how many times I saw free rushers come in untouched. Now I don't know if that's a testiment to the good defense they played against or if they are really THAT bad. Way too early to tell yet.

But one thing I do know is this is a good opportunity for our DL to bounce back after a lackluster game. 

Their OL is not good.   Its still an NFL o line, but a poor one.  They were using 3 TE sets and still getting killed.

It is weakest part of their team.   Slayton and Barkley are legit good players on offense.   Jones is a talented QB as well.  Take them away and they are below average.  It doesn't get much better than this.  

This should be a good game for our defense on paper.   Our offense should get some chances to score.

 I hope Nagy is smart about taking advantage of the match up advantages they have too.  

This is about an obvious game plan as you can get.  They have clear, obvious weaknesses to exploit and target and just a handful of true strengths to concentrate on.    

It should be a fairly comfortable win.  But it rarely is.   

 

 

 

[dll2000]

16 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Their OL was completely out of sync the whole game. I can't begin to count how many times I saw free rushers come in untouched. Now I don't know if that's a testiment to the good defense they played against or if they are really THAT bad. Way too early to tell yet.

But one thing I do know is this is a good opportunity for our DL to bounce back after a lackluster game. 

I'd move Peart to starting line up right now.  Their RT is awful.  I hope they don't.  Another OT we should have looked to draft by the way.   There was some decent mid round prospects in this past draft.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

5 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Their OL is not good.   Its still an NFL o line, but a poor one.  They were using 3 TE sets and still getting killed.

It is weakest part of their team.   Slayton and Barkley are legit good players on offense.   Jones is a talented QB as well.  Take them away and they are below average.  It doesn't get much better than this.  

This should be a good game for our defense on paper.   Our offense should get some chances to score.

 I hope Nagy is smart about taking advantage of the match up advantages they have too.  

This is about an obvious game plan as you can get.  They have clear, obvious weaknesses to exploit and target and just a handful of true strengths to concentrate on.    

It should be a fairly comfortable win.  But it rarely is.   

Yeah, this is why I'm still cautiously optimistic about the offense right now too. It gonna take consecutive performances before I get my hopes up too high. One game in the books, let's see if they can keep it going. 

[dll2000]

19 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Yeah, this is why I'm still cautiously optimistic about the offense right now too. It gonna take consecutive performances before I get my hopes up too high. One game in the books, let's see if they can keep it going. 

I don't think our offense is going to be great regardless.   It can be good.  And you can win with it if you are smart about it game to game.  

If game plan is to simply run it down their throat in first half I think that is a major mistake.  I don't care what 'identity is'.   You would be slamming right into strength of their team when they have some glaring weaknesses at 2nd levels to exploit in addition to a relatively poor pass rush.

 

.

 

[soulman]

Hard to say more than has been said.

IMHO I'd focus on limiting whatever damage Barkley can do running the ball and force Jones to throw into our coverage which should be one of our strengths.  It's gonna take some aggressiveness against the run like Pitt showed with some penetration and every one flying to the ball carrier to stop him.  I'd bring Gipson up into the box as much as possible and force him to run against and 8 man box and put Jones into as many 3rd and longs as possible.

Offensively Mitch needs to get his guys and himself untracked much sooner and take Barkley out of the game as much as possible.  This week we need to be the guys playing with a 17 point lead.  I'd also run more hurry up series to keep NY from subbing and keep momentum going.  FWIW Mitch always seems to respond better when the tempo is accelerated.  Run the right side behind Ifedi and Massie and challenge the edge with more outside runs.

[RJ_11]

Watched the Giants against the Steelers the other night, and like others have said, this is a bad Giants O-line. It felt like the Steelers just blitzed every play because the Giants had no idea how to stop it - maybe that's down to a young QB and a center who has just moved there from RT not being totally down on setting the protection yet. But it'll be interesting to see if Pagano copies that and dials up a lot of blitzes - Buster Skrine and Roquan Smith, stay loose.

They can't be as bad run blocking as they were Monday night, and after rewatching the Lions game, we really did get pushed around in the middle of the DL at times. No Goldman = no run stuffer taking up double teams, and that definitely made a difference. We need Quinn asap, not only for the added pass rush, but to get teams focusing on both edges so our interior can try to do something. I'm worried about what Saquon could do to to us. I think we need a fast start and try to force them to throw, Jones makes some impressive plays but seems to have at least one bone-headed mistake a week, and fast starts are tough to come by for us anyway...

I think the Bears are the better team and win a one-score game - doubt we blow anyone away this season, but I think we take this one.

Edited September 17, 2020 by RJ_11

[soulman]

Chicago Bears Week 2 Preview: Offensive Line

 

by Parker Hurley 2 hours ago Follow @parkerhurley  

https://beargoggleson.com/2020/09/17/chicago-bears-week-2-preview-offensive-line/?utm_campaign=FanSided+Daily&utm_source=FanSided+Daily&utm_medium=email

 

How does the Chicago Bears offensive line stack up against the New York Giants Defensive Line?

The New York Giants run a base 3-4 defense. On early, run stopping downs, you will see a beefed up front including Dalvin Tomlinson, Dexter Lawrence, and Leonard Williams. That will include Lorenzo Carter and Markus Golden on the edge. On pass rushing downs, Lawrence and Tomlinson will head out for an extra defensive back and B.J. Hill, who is a primary pass rushing option.

The New York Giants run defense ranks 13th in power rate, which is the converted 3 and fourth and shorts as well as goal line carries. They rank 19th in stuff rate, which yards for zero or less yards. They rank 15th in second level yards, and 32nd in open field yards as well.

This can show from their Week One performance against Benny Snell. Snell had two carries amount for over 50 yards, and finished with 119 yards on 17 carries. His two big open field runs, broke the Giants dam.

Charles Leno

Leno is expected to spend most of his day against Lorenzo Carter. Carter is hoping to break out in year three, and had a nice showing in Week One to start that campaign. He led the Giants in pressures, and was second behind linebacker Blake Martinez in run stops.

Carter plays off of the ball as an outside linebacker, but was second on the team in pass rush snaps as well. This is a nice matchup for Leno on paper, though.

We know by now the issues with Leno and his strengths as well. He is not going to win with power, but he can get off of the ball fast and is light on his feet. Carter is an athlete with burst, but is unrefined with his moves, and is not a power rusher. These are the types of players that Leno can play well against.

James Daniels

This is going to be the matchup of the game. He is going to see most of his time against Dexter Lawrence on run downs, and Leonard Williams on passing downs. On run downs, Williams may also load that side up, and get chances to use his power against Leno.

However, like Leno, that has been the issue with Daniels as well. He is fast, and good with hands, but he can get pushed back at times. While Leno is who he is, Daniels is younger than most rookies in this past draft class. He can gain strength.

However, Sunday will be a test. We saw Matt Feiler get walked back a time or two for the Steelers and he is a veteran. Lawrence is a first round pick who was drafted solely off of his power, and while Williams has not lived up to his draft status, he has turned it on a bit with the Giants. Daniels was key in helping getting the run game straight, but this will be a tougher matchup than Detroit.

Cody Whitehair

The way the Giants beef up their line will make it tough for Whitehair to help Daniels, at least when it comes to the run game. Whitehair will see Dalvin Tomlinson on early downs. Tomlinson is quick footed and slippery for a nose tackle, and while Whitehair has the advantage in most matchups, his hands being full will show up a lot of Daniels, and Germain Ifedi in one-on-one scenarios.

Germain Ifedi

Ifedi could see bits and pieces of all of the names mentioned. On run downs, he will see Williams at times while Daniels takes on Lawrence. If Whitehair is preoccupied with Tomlinson, we will see how far Ifedi has come. Both Williams and Ifedi did not live up to draft status, but Williams has the upper hand as of now.

However, on pass downs, Ifedi will see the most of B.J. Hill. Hill has nice burst, but is inconsistent overall, and is a sound matchup for Ifedi due to their athletic profiles. Overall, the interior should fare better stylistically with the Giants pass rush plan, than their run defense.

Bobby Massie

Markus Golden is an outside linebacker, but he hardly plays off of the ball. In terms of scheme, the Giants use Lorenzo Carter similar to Leonard Floyd in how he plays off of the ball, while Golden is a traditional pass rusher, used similarly to Mack. Of course, luckily for Massie, he is not quite Mack.

However, Golden is coming off of a season with 10 sacks, which is more than Mack. Massie and Golden are a bit familiar as well. The last year Massie spent in Arizona was the rookie year for Golden there.

Next: Pressures Allowed Report

Golden did not have a big game against Zach Banner, but did have two pressures. Beyond that, the Steelers have 11 carries for 63 yards off of the right tackle. Still, of any pass rusher, he would be the biggest stylistic mismatch for Chicago. If Massie can handle Golden, the line should be able to get through two weeks unscathed.

[Epyon]

One thing I'd expect is a very heavy effort to run up the middle by NY this week...not because of matchups, but because of pure pride... Barkley is arguably the most talented rb in the league, and he had less rushing yards last week than their qb.  You know they're going to be going very hard emphasizing their run game in order to iron out the problems in practice. 

Matchup wise, they saw last week that the middle of our dl is potentially a weakness, and with news of Quinn being back in the mix off of the edge opposite of Mack, rushing outside probably feels riskier. If they do go outside, it will be towards Quinn, since he's more of a pass rusher than run stuffer, and coming off an injury and might still be somewhat limited. 

Key to the game imo is coming out and taking the lead early, in order to force their offense to swap to a heavier passing attack and away from the running game they likely want to do. It'll be a good test for mitch, since it needs him playing more than just the fourth quarter. Let's hope he can step up. 

[Sugashane]

I think Barkley will have a good game, but I don't think he hits 100 yards or 2 TDs. He will be the primary focus of the defense, and I would not be surprised for Quinn to play less snaps than Jenkins or RRH. Not because they are as good but because he is coming back from an injury, like @Epyon said, they will be concentrating on the run game. That isn't Quinn's strength and there is no reason to risk an injury when he can just be subbed in on 3rd and 6+ to pin his ears back. Let the big boys handle the run game as much as possible and lower the chance of extending Quinn's recovery time. DT scares me, he shouldn't be out of shape, maybe he had a lower body injury limiting him.

 

I don't have the stats to back me up but I feel like Tru is terrible in the lateral passing game. When he throws under 4 yards past the LOS and outside the hashes it seems he either tries to put too much touch on and overthrows the or his accuracy is scattershot and destroys the chance for YAC. I'd like to see 12 personnel and keep 1 TE as a dump off option for him so they can run RPOs, play action, etc and then ARob and Miller can run more intermediate throws. I'm fine with Graham and Kmet averaging 6 yards per catch if the catch percentage is high, that is the same as a solid run and will help Tru get into a rhythm. He needs to be able to make quick reads and be aggressive, if he is left back there to think then he seems to crumble. Get cluster reads like NO does, where you put pressure on one side by running levels like a post, an out and a corner, then have the opposite TE run a slant or drag as a dump off option. Often Brees gets to read a safety and a corner and knows who to throw to off their leverage. 

 

Of course this is highly dependent on the run game doing well. Last week was a damn nice surprise and Nagy made me eat my words for at least one week. Speaking of run game, did anyone watch Daniels closely? I was wondering if the new mass helped him dig out his guy on a few plays.