Week 4 GDT: Bills (3-0) @ Raiders (2-1)

[doctordeath]

On 10/5/2020 at 2:24 AM, NYRaider said:

In Mahomes 31 wins with the Chiefs they've given up an average of 19.3 ppg and in his 8 losses they've given up an average of 35.7 ppg. 

In Jackson's 22 wins the Ravens have given up an average of 15.3 ppg and in his 5 losses they've given up an average of 30.8 ppg. 

In Watson's 25 wins the Texans have given up an average of 17.6 ppg and in his 19 losses they have given up an average of 31.6 ppg. 

In Carr's 41 wins we've allowed an average of 21.9 ppg and in his 57 losses we've given up an average of 29.1 ppg. 

Anyone see a trend here? 

 

Sorry for the delayed response, but the trend here proves carr doesn't have that killer instinct that I've been on my soapbox about. If he did, he could overcome having a trash defense.

[doctordeath]

On 10/5/2020 at 1:44 AM, NYRaider said:

It's also hilarious to argue that Ohio State isn't a stacked program. Over the last three seasons they're 38-4 and of their 38 victories, 35 of them have been by 10+ points. And they've been able to do that with 3 different starting QBs. 

I think Fields is definitely a better prospect than Haskins or any QB to come out of OSU recently. But again, their lack of success producing NFL QB's cannot be ignored when evaluating Fields. He played on one of the most talented teams in the country with an elite offensive line, Heisman level running back, and 3 future NFL WR's. We also haven't seen him play a ton because he only has 14 career starts. And in those 14 career starts he hasn't really faced much adversity as OSU won every game by 10+ points, only trailed at half time once the entire season, and only trailed in the 4th quarter for a total of 1:49 the entire season. 

I ain't arguing they ain't stacked I'm arguing that just like cam, fields attributes in in a short sample size is good enough for me to proclaim he will succeed and that I liken his game to Tony Romo. He's just bigger, stronger and faster. If he busts or isn't taken where I think he will, I'll gladly die on that hill.

I'll also die gladly on the hill of "carr isn't worth it and our d is trash" which is what I've been beating my chest about.

Admittedly, I was a little inebriated during our exchange this past weekend...

[doctordeath]

On 10/5/2020 at 11:36 AM, Jerry said:

So a top 5 defense wouldn't help us at all?  Crappy QBs have won the SB.  The bolded isn't always true.

It'd help any team. But name me the last crap offense/top defense combo that won a superbowl? The 02 bucs? Better yet, name me how many MODERN superbowls were won by crap offenses owing their top defense?

 

[doctordeath]

On 10/5/2020 at 1:08 PM, Bitty 2.0 said:

I'm saying that it's a crapshoot. How many quarterbacks drafted in the last 7 years are actually better than Carr?

One too many, especially after 2017, when carr should've been on the hotseat: Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, PAT, Deshaun, Kyler... Yeah, they're all first round picks but deservedly so: KILLER INSTINCT which equates to putting the team on their back. Hence why their teams drafted them where they did and gave up what they did.

Oh, and they're also DYNAMIC, which carr is not. I'm not saying he's bad. His stats speak for themselves. But when you watch him play, the head scratching decision making, the seemingly small hands, the lack of gusto.... 

[MrOaktown_56]

18 minutes ago, doctordeath said:

Sorry for the delayed response, but the trend here proves carr doesn't have that killer instinct that I've been on my soapbox about. If he did, he could overcome having a trash defense.

At this point, I have no idea what you're talking about. What is this "killer instinct" that you're referring to?

And why hasn't it helped these elite quarterbacks win in games where their defense gave up 30+?

[doctordeath]

15 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

At this point, I have no idea what you're talking about. What is this "killer instinct" that you're referring to?

And why hasn't it helped these elite quarterbacks win in games where their defense gave up 30+?

This killer instinct I talk about is that "it" factor thrown around in sports so frequently when talking about the mahomes, jordans, kobe's, jeters of the sports world. That intangible thing that just makes them so great at what they do, that no matter the opponent or the odds, there is a chance.

We don't have that with carr. Apologies if that (killer instinct) wasn't clear enough for you, but i thought it was pretty clear considering were discussing carr, a qb that's known to cry when getting trampled aka he doesn't have that killer instinct, the concept which you're having difficulty grasping. Instead he's got the instinct of a sensitive sam/sally, which explains the "I'm tired of being disrespected" and "challenging Keller man to a fight" talk.

Edited October 8, 2020 by doctordeath

[doctordeath]

On 10/5/2020 at 6:04 PM, NYRaider said:

It'd be impossible to consistently win games even with a top flight QB due to our defense.

Carr's defense average ppg allowed - 26.1 

Wilson's defense average ppg allowed - 19.0

Mahomes defense average ppg allowed - 22.5 

Jackson's defense average ppg allowed - 18.0

For you and anyone else trotting out the "but carr has had bad defenses" argument: teams facing carr aren't as worried as teams facing the qbs you mention above.

Teams play the raiders different and that's led to the 30+ ppg stat you have there. But have you once thought that maybe carr's mistakes, conservative play, etc. factored into that overall ppg?

Also, if you're on d and you're not very good, and you know your qb doesn't have that killer instinct (the ability to provide a kill shot when necessary and put the team on your back RELIABLY), wouldn't that effect effort and the overall outcome?

What y'all are missing is: carr not being an awesome qb and our terrible defense ARE NOT EXCLUSIVE.

@MrOaktown_56

Edited October 8, 2020 by doctordeath

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, doctordeath said:

What y'all are missing is: carr not being an awesome qb and our terrible defense ARE NOT EXCLUSIVE.

@MrOaktown_56

You're right I was wondering why Carr has struggled to rush the passer or generate turnovers for the defense. 

[BackinBlack]

2 hours ago, doctordeath said:

For you and anyone else trotting out the "but carr has had bad defenses" argument: teams facing carr aren't as worried as teams facing the qbs you mention above.

Teams play the raiders different and that's led to the 30+ ppg stat you have there. But have you once thought that maybe carr's mistakes, conservative play, etc. factored into that overall ppg?

Also, if you're on d and you're not very good, and you know your qb doesn't have that killer instinct (the ability to provide a kill shot when necessary and put the team on your back RELIABLY), wouldn't that effect effort and the overall outcome?

What y'all are missing is: carr not being an awesome qb and our terrible defense ARE NOT EXCLUSIVE.

@MrOaktown_56

so then did bortles have that killer instinct for Jax a few years ago, when they made the afc championship game?

[doctordeath]

26 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

You're right I was wondering why Carr has struggled to rush the passer or generate turnovers for the defense. 

Dude (or dudette), that is not what I'm saying: I'm saying both of those variables have an affect on each other. Sheesh.

[doctordeath]

9 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

so then did bortles have that killer instinct for Jax a few years ago, when they made the afc championship game?

Nobody has mentioned bortles except you.

Edited October 8, 2020 by doctordeath

[BackinBlack]

16 minutes ago, doctordeath said:

Nobody has mentioned bortles except you.

Also, if you're on d and you're not very good, and you know your qb doesn't have that killer instinct (the ability to provide a kill shot when necessary and put the team on your back RELIABLY), wouldn't that effect effort and the overall outcome?

ah, sorry.. you stated the above. your point being (i thought) that if youre on D and you QB doesnt have a killer D, that it effects their effort and overall outcome.

I was asking, if Blake Bortles then in your opinion had that killer instinct? Because that D played phonemail all year.

Essentially, I was proving your statement wrong... unless you want to claim Bortles had that killer instinct. 

[drfrey13]

I think what doctordeath is saying is that the games the elite QBs lose sometimes the defense giving up a lot of points can partially be attributable to the offense struggling and putting the defense in bad positions.  It can go both ways.  The offense's play affects the defense and defense's can affect the offense.  Case in point is we lose a few o-linemen and the offense can not run the ball as well.  Now the defense can focus on stopping the passing game.  Now the offense has a hard time sustaining drives and the defense does not get rest and slowly wears down because they can not get off the field so they get increasingly tired and give up more points.  On the flip side a defense can give up points early and make the offense 1 dimensional because they are playing from behind.  Now they are easier to stop and start turning the ball over because they need to force the issue.  Causing the defense to be on the field more and getting tired.  You have to look at each game and how it plays out.  Also you have to look at each teams philosophy.  We are a ball control grind it out offense and a bend do not break defense.  We need the offense to wear down the opposing defense and keep the opposing offense out of rhythm by limiting their time on the field.  Our offense is suppose to set the tone.  Yes our defense has played poorly but we knew that at the beginning of the year and that we were going to need the offense to carry us.  The Saints game is the example of how it is suppose to play out.  Do we need a better defense to win?  Not necessarily but we need a better defense to win on a regular basis with a QB like Carr and Carr needs almost optimal circumstances to overcome a bad defense.  If we want to make the playoffs we need to play better on both sides of the ball and that is something we can all agree on.

[MrOaktown_56]

7 hours ago, doctordeath said:

For you and anyone else trotting out the "but carr has had bad defenses" argument: teams facing carr aren't as worried as teams facing the qbs you mention above.

Teams play the raiders different and that's led to the 30+ ppg stat you have there. But have you once thought that maybe carr's mistakes, conservative play, etc. factored into that overall ppg?

Also, if you're on d and you're not very good, and you know your qb doesn't have that killer instinct (the ability to provide a kill shot when necessary and put the team on your back RELIABLY), wouldn't that effect effort and the overall outcome?

What y'all are missing is: carr not being an awesome qb and our terrible defense ARE NOT EXCLUSIVE.

@MrOaktown_56

He's among the more turnover-averse quarterbacks in football and the Raiders offense consistently drives with the football, giving the defense time to rest and also putting them in better field positions when they do get the ball.

It's not like the Raiders offense is going 3 and out and leading to the defense putting up huge points.

I don't really buy what you're selling at all here.

[Darbsk]

10 hours ago, doctordeath said:

Sorry for the delayed response, but the trend here proves carr doesn't have that killer instinct that I've been on my soapbox about. If he did, he could overcome having a trash defense.

Absolute nonsense. The trend proves nothing of the sort. Point of fact, it doesn't 'prove' anything. It is though, evidence to suggest that all QBs, even MVP calibre QBs usually lose when their defence gives up around 30 points, that is all.