2021 NFL Draft Thread

[ripsean21]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Trey Lance has no calves, not a fan! 😂 

On the real though, I thought he looked good. It’s obvious he can make all the throws & he’s athletic. He may just be a Josh Allen or Dak type where as a young QBs he’s still developing & a bit erratic at times but he’ll make up for it w/ athleticism and strength. 
 

I still would take Fields over him just off of resume & where Fields is in terms of his development as a pocket passer which is he can read the whole field he just doesn’t do it fast enough right now. So, he has to get quicker in his decision making. 
 

Lance isn’t even there yet, he’s like Fields in his first year at OSU. One read and if it’s not there, run. That’s fine, like Allen & Dak he’ll develop but I have Fields above Lance.

I definitely would have no problem taking him with our natural pick or trading up for him.

Fields processes slower but he is further ahead of Lance in that reguard because you can see him working on that part of his game already that’s why he is ahead on ball placement and throwing guys open even if it is a slower read right now he’s refining that because he never had a chance at Georgia too and last year he couldn’t and this year you saw genuine improvement. So while maybe it was slower that will speed up with reps. The fact he’s shown he can is the encouraging thing to me which is why I have him with a higher overall grade then I had on Jackson who I personally had higher then most because of his elite level wheels. With Jackson I said even if he grows slowly he’s still special so it’s completely Heath dependent and he’s taken care of himself well. Fields has to improve there because he’s almost like RG as far as feeling as far as when to lay up and when to fight. But again he has grown there. I actually like Fields a lot. But pound for pound I think Lance does have a slight higher ceiling but his floor is about where fields is already so Fields is def the safer pick. I think they both are tough as nails.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, ripsean21 said:

Fields processes slower but he is further ahead of Lance in that reguard because you can see him working on that part of his game already that’s why he is ahead on ball placement and throwing guys open even if it is a slower read right now he’s refining that because he never had a chance at Georgia too and last year he couldn’t and this year you saw genuine improvement. So while maybe it was slower that will speed up with reps. The fact he’s shown he can is the encouraging thing to me which is why I have him with a higher overall grade then I had on Jackson who I personally had higher then most because of his elite level wheels. With Jackson I said even if he grows slowly he’s still special so it’s completely Heath dependent and he’s taken care of himself well. Fields has to improve there because he’s almost like RG as far as feeling as far as when to lay up and when to fight. But again he has grown there. I actually like Fields a lot. But pound for pound I think Lance does have a slight higher ceiling but his floor is about where fields is already so Fields is def the safer pick. I think they both are tough as nails.

I agree with most of this. I disagree on the ceiling bc Lance’s ceiling is an enigma to me. It’s hard for me to know Lance’s ceiling bc he hasn’t played & the level of his competition isn’t as high, which was also an issue for Zach Wilson.

Again, we’ve seen Fields play at a high level vs Clemons’s defense two years in a row and he’s not even close to his potential.

[ripsean21]

9 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I agree with most of this. I disagree on the ceiling bc Lance’s ceiling is an enigma to me. It’s hard for me to know Lance’s ceiling bc he hasn’t played & the level of his competition isn’t as high, which was also an issue for Zach Wilson.

Again, we’ve seen Fields play at a high level vs Clemons’s defense two years in a row and he’s not even close to his potential.

I agree with Fields. And I agree with Lance. I love Wilson’s tools. But he has a Jay Cutler confidence that is imo going to be a detriment to him once teams have film on him. Lance the lack of film makes his ceiling harder to see but I think he just has this IT factor. But I see that with Fields too. I think I say Lance is higher is I think his arm is just stronger not that he throws further I think he has more velocity off his hand. Trust me their grades are practically similar. I just have more tape on Fields and I’m comfortable with him more then Lance. I think on this team they both get closer to their ceiling then going to a few teams that are picking ahead of us that I think are real possibilities for them. I’d be excited with either. But I don’t want either if this staff isn’t 💯 sure that that guy will be the guy.

[turtle28]

It’s about time he did this one! 🔥

[Woz]

On 2/28/2021 at 12:09 PM, offbyone said:

The problem with Parsons is that if teams deem his red flags to be non issues then he will be gone well before 19.  If he is there at 19, it will imply that his red flags are more than smoke and we shouldn't pick him anyways.  So to me Parsons is a not an option for us.

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Woz

[Woz]

On 3/9/2021 at 4:28 PM, noptov52 said:

Would not mind Zaven one bit.  Mid/late first is not a terrible spot in this draft to pick up a quality LB.  Of course, PFF has to go and tease me with Parsons dropping https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-mock-draft-qb-justin-fields-lands-with-the-jets-at-no-2-falcons-select-florida-te-kyle-pitts-at-no-4

[Woz]

On 3/10/2021 at 2:00 PM, Skinsin2013 said:

Some QB news?

https://247sports.com/Article/Marcus-Mariota-teams-expect-Las-Vegas-Raiders-release-QB-trade-NFL-free-agency-Oregon-162150769/

Marcus Mariota reemerged on the football scene in 2020 with the Las Vegas Raiders when he subbed in for an injured Derek Carr. Although it was just a relief appearance, his only of the year, Mariota showed flashes of his old self when he was playing well for the Tennessee Titans.

The former Oregon star is expected to be released however, per NFL insider Ian Rapoport. However, it’s not for a lack of trying to trade him.

According to Rapoport, there are a good amount of teams interested in the former Heisman trophy winner.

[Woz]

On 3/11/2021 at 12:47 PM, e16bball said:

If either Mond or Trask makes it to one of our 3rds, I would not riot if we took them there. I still don’t believe in mid-round QBs, but obviously it does work out on occasion, and those guys have some appealing traits. I could live with it. 

Anyone else that I’ve watched so far is a really hard pass until the very late rounds.  

The more I think on it, the more I want Washignton dodge a QB in this draft class especially in the first. I wouldn't be as averse to a 3rd rounder on one of those guys, but I just think this past season plus the weird evaluation season is going to make for much harder evaluations of these guys.

If someone falls to their lap at 19, I'm not going be upset if they take a QB. I'm just becoming less enthused trading up for a Fields, or Lance, or Jones, or whomever because of the even higher-than-usual risk.

[Woz]

On 3/11/2021 at 11:31 PM, lavar703 said:

I’m taking the Lance thing as the team doing their due diligence just in case he drops to our pick. I don’t see them trading up for anyone and I honestly believe they’re fine going into the season with Allen and Heinecke. Sigh. 

If they aren't sold on any of the guys to trade up for them, why would you be upset for them to go into the season with Allen and Heinecke? Yes, they'll likely pick up a vet bridge QB (someone like Dalton, Mariota, Winston, Taylor, or Fitzpatrick), but they want to see if they guys they have are actually viable. If one of them is, they have a QB they can build around. If they aren't, they hopefully have spent this season focusing on building up the rest of the talent around the position.

[Woz]

On 3/12/2021 at 12:19 PM, ripsean21 said:

I only mentioned Burrow because there is a similar situation as far as how there careers were heading until Trask started playing without Pitts and others. Trust me a lot of good players just aren’t my guys!!! Doesn’t mean I’m right. But for someone who watches these games as much as I do I trust my gut and my notes. 5 years ago I would have loved Trask like I liked the Jimmy Clausens and Will Grier’s of the world. But I’ve evolved in my breakdowns and all the times I’ve been wrong over the 19 years of notes I have on those classes every year I go back and really look at what I was missing once I have their NFL fails to counter my notes with. I’m just someone with a full time scout service I’m not getting paid for bud lol when Trask comes out and has some success I’ll eat it. And if Mond doesn’t pan out I’m okay with it. But the fact I have identified a guy in his range that I’m legit excited about because I see things I think people are overlooking you bet I’m gonna pound the table. This type of QB prospect comes along every 5 or 7 years maybe that people just seem very low on for what I see on tape.

I'm by no means a college evaluator as I have said many many times. But I am interested in what those of you are see. So, walk me through this if you would:

What would 2016 ripsean say about Trask and Mond, and why?
Why does 2021 ripsean feel differently about them with five years more evaluations, and why?

EDIT: it helps if you keep reading apparently ...

On 3/12/2021 at 12:29 PM, ripsean21 said:

The difference between he and the guys we have is his throw on the move is better then the rest of this class. What made our playoff game exciting was Taylor throwing on the move. Most guys move and either run because their runners or look to throw because their passers. Mond is one of the few guys I’ve ever scouted that has plus level wheels that could win with his legs and has that pass first mentality. Also Mond had zilch on the OL and outside. I just see a guy with everything it takes to win in this league mentally. What I see on film from Mond most of what I’m seeing isn’t even about his skills. He has it between the helmet and that is what I need to win with. Wilson has an elite arm I love his ability. But if he throws 12 plus picks this year don’t be suprised. Lawrence tends to sail passes and really struggles with face pressure. Fields reads slow and Mac just can’t move and has misfired with pressure. Trust me there’s holes in all of their games. But if your telling me I can draft BPA round one and two and get Mond who’s grade I have up there with those guys and not give assets and mortgage the future it’s worth the risk to me. While I love Lance he needs a ton of time too. So if I’m thinking value Mond is the value it’s not that I think he’s a sure fire he isn’t. But I do think I could get the most out of this offseason if Mond was the QB we selected and maximizing our FA additions and draft class. Because as Lavar has said. If we go into next year with these guys we’re a sure fire dump so if it doesn’t pan out get your guy with your high pick next year.

So, is it just the ability to throw on the run? Do you see any of the other non-Mond QBs have a more-like-Brady pocket awareness so that they generally don't need to throw on the run?

Edited March 14, 2021 by Woz

[ripsean21]

18 minutes ago, Woz said:

I'm by no means a college evaluator as I have said many many times. But I am interested in what those of you are see. So, walk me through this if you would:

What would 2016 ripsean say about Trask and Mond, and why?
Why does 2021 ripsean feel differently about them with five years more evaluations, and why?

EDIT: it helps if you keep reading apparently ...

So, is it just the ability to throw on the run? Do you see any of the other non-Mond QBs have a more-like-Brady pocket awareness so that they generally don't need to throw on the run?

A lot of those other guys had much better OL play with better play makers and he did his best against a all SEC schedule and it’s the growth of how he will stand in the pocket and deliver the strike ball where only his guy has a chance through windows. It’s the fact his early tape had huge flaws in all the aspects he’s grown majorly at as far as success rate to these plays. He does them in regularity and on rythm with a lot of quick pressures. His back pedal actually extended his pocket time with his throw off the back foot fading back to protect himself. He’s just grown in awareness of the game flow and I just believe if he can go from what he was early in college to this with really 1-1/2 offseason a of Jimbo and his growth the week of the seniorbowl to how he looked in every big game.

His bad tape against LSU there wasn’t one player gaining separation. He made I think 2 errant throws and 1 more bad decision but he was giving his guys chances with Regis coverage all over the field nobody got a inch against LSU. And he cleaned a few things up the next week from that game against a similar Defense so I see the growth potential as a worthwhile Gamble and pray for a steal. We’ve had good luck in the 3 why not take one more gamble if you aren’t drop dead in love with anyone out there at the cost of assets to get that player. No this move generally never pans out but this is just one of the few guys I’ve really ever found that I think on a well coached young bright team with a few good leaders and this guy could be a real gamer. Just a hunch. Don’t get it very often so can give examples of plays from games. I just think he has the best chance based on his career tape and growth within a staff and system. I see a guy that will buy in and put in the work. It shows up year to year game to game

[Woz]

Thank you @ripsean21 for your explanation. Seriously. Thank you.

[lavar703]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

If they aren't sold on any of the guys to trade up for them, why would you be upset for them to go into the season with Allen and Heinecke? Yes, they'll likely pick up a vet bridge QB (someone like Dalton, Mariota, Winston, Taylor, or Fitzpatrick), but they want to see if they guys they have are actually viable. If one of them is, they have a QB they can build around. If they aren't, they hopefully have spent this season focusing on building up the rest of the talent around the position.

How many starts does Kyle Allen have to have before we know he’s not viable? He’s going on almost two seasons worth now, correct? He wasn’t very good in college, he hasn’t been very good in the pros and he’s continuing to get chances because Rivera loves him. I’m fine with him being a back up but short of a miracle he is what he is. And while I love the Heinecke story, what are the odds so many teams and coaches missed on him for so many years? I mean, he was a back up in the XFL. I’m fine going into the season with these two but they’re both injury prone and it’s a disaster waiting to happen. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by lavar703

[Woz]

Just now, lavar703 said:

How many starts does Kyle Allen have to have before we know he’s not viable? He’s going on almost two seasons worth now, correct? He wasn’t very good in college, he hasn’t been very good in the pros and he’s continuing to get chances because Rivera loves him. I’m fine with him being a back up but short of a miracle he is what he is. And while I love the Heinecke story, what are the odds so many teams and coaches missed not him for so many years? I mean, he was a back up in the XFL. I’m fine going into the season with these two but they’re both injury prone and it’s a disaster waiting to happen. 

I don't need to see anything more on Kyle Allen; I'm quite convinced he's the QB equivalent of dryer lint. Unfortunately, Ron Rivera thinks differently.

I am willing to roll the dice on Heinicke because of his one brief shining moment. I would also plan for one of the vet QBs. I personally prefer Winston and Mariota because of their age and possible chance at a Tannehill resurgence, but I'm not counting on it. Given that they each will be on their third team in their seven year career, their contract can be commensurate with that fact. My next option would be Dalton. No, I'm not thinking he's a world beater, but maybe you can get okay performance out of him for 2-3 years. Taylor and Fitzpatrick would be one year deals only.

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

I don't need to see anything more on Kyle Allen; I'm quite convinced he's the QB equivalent of dryer lint. Unfortunately, Ron Rivera thinks differently.

I am willing to roll the dice on Heinicke because of his one brief shining moment. I would also plan for one of the vet QBs. I personally prefer Winston and Mariota because of their age and possible chance at a Tannehill resurgence, but I'm not counting on it. Given that they each will be on their third team in their seven year career, their contract can be commensurate with that fact. My next option would be Dalton. No, I'm not thinking he's a world beater, but maybe you can get okay performance out of him for 2-3 years. Taylor and Fitzpatrick would be one year deals only.

So I actually think Kyle Allen is better than dryer lint. If he can clean up the turnover issues a bit, I think there’s a fair chance he’d be a pretty decent starter. Has a pretty good arm, can run a little, seems to have a good grasp on the offense, shows some nice ball placement at times. He played against pretty weak competition last season, but his performance was pretty solid overall.

That said, the concern I have is that “pretty decent starter” can actually be a bigger problem than “objectively terrible starter.” It’s much easier to get away from a guy who plays like Dwayne Haskins than it is from a guy like Andy Dalton, but you have approximately the same chance of competing for a championship with either of them. I can envision Allen fitting into that latter category, putting us right back into the mediocrity trap that we escaped a couple seasons ago.

Edited March 14, 2021 by e16bball