2020 Week #6 GDT Steelers vs. Browns

[warfelg]

17 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

The need too...I want that Feiler comp pick. I really like Feiler, great story, good player, filled in well above the line when asked too....

But we have a really good thing going with Chuks having a rookie deal year left and looking like a starter caliber guy and Dotson being the next in line on the interior to be a starter. Add in that maybe Banner can come back on a low end prove it to be our LT (or RT with Chuks flipping) and our o-line doesnt lose anything but high cap $$'s next year and potentially gains comp cred for Villy and Feiler. Gimme gimme.

Very much agreed with all of this. 
 

Next years line is Chucks-Dodson-Pouncey-DDC-Banner. 
 

Although moving on from DDC is an interesting take. But I think that the dead money from DDC is way too much to do anything with him.  And the trade market for an OG no matter how good isn’t going to be fruitful enough to bring in more than a 3/4. Might as well just let Fieler walk in that case. 
 

EDIT:

looked it up. DDC trades or cut saves $9mil, which likely $6-7mil of that would go to Fieler in that case. Better off extending DDC next year to reduce his cap hit from $14.5 to $10-11. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by warfelg

[MOSteelers56]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Very much agreed with all of this. 
 

Next years line is Chucks-Dodson-Pouncey-DDC-Banner. 
 

Although moving on from DDC is an interesting take. But I think that the dead money from DDC is way too much to do anything with him.  And the trade market for an OG no matter how good isn’t going to be fruitful enough to bring in more than a 3/4. Might as well just let Fieler walk in that case. 
 

EDIT:

looked it up. DDC trades or cut saves $9mil, which likely $6-7mil of that would go to Fieler in that case. Better off extending DDC next year to reduce his cap hit from $14.5 to $10-11. 

Our heads are in the same spot regarding this topic. Chuks has really impressed me, much more so than Banner did. I think he will slide to LT without much of a dropoff from AV. I doubt he'll be better than Villy in year one, but he might be a horizontal move(shoot, he might be better though). I'm hoping for a 2-3 year deal with Banner, who impressed me, for a decent price. Let Feiler walk and try to get a comp pick. I think the line you proposed is much better than this years. 

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Better off extending DDC next year to reduce his cap hit from $14.5 to $10-11. 

Good call here -- forgot to mention that in my post this time around that he will also be able to save us some cash on the extend that will inevitably happen next year. Kind of incredible to think about how we will be in a really good spot, financially and talent wise, in a desperate cap season at a much needed position group. 

Sticking with the O-Line, I, rather unfortunately, believe that Pouncey is probably a re-up candidate as well. While we need to find his replacement, that would also save us cash next year and solidify the squad and push the need at least 1 more year. But if its not team friendly, I might burst (and I say this as a Pouncey defender). 

[MOSteelers56]

8 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Good call here -- forgot to mention that in my post this time around that he will also be able to save us some cash on the extend that will inevitably happen next year. Kind of incredible to think about how we will be in a really good spot, financially and talent wise, in a desperate cap season at a much needed position group. 

Sticking with the O-Line, I, rather unfortunately, believe that Pouncey is probably a re-up candidate as well. While we need to find his replacement, that would also save us cash next year and solidify the squad and push the need at least 1 more year. But if its not team friendly, I might burst (and I say this as a Pouncey defender). 

I'm no expert on O-line play, but it seems like Pouncey has been pretty solid this year. He's been dinged up a few times, though. That's worrisome. 

[Steeler Hitman]

23 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Quote

IMO Dallas wasn't a fluke at all. I don't think Dallas is very good, and defensively they're an absolute train wreck. The Browns running game vs. the Steelers defense will probably look a bit more like the Browns/Colts, where yardage will be harder to come by. I'll be interested to see how Stefanski game plans, because he clearly came out throwing the ball all over the Colts in the first half and almost used this to setup the run.

I agree as I think the Browns are a solid football team. I thought that Dallas would be better than they are especially on defense. Injuries have hurt them, but even still, the holes that the Browns OL opened and the ease that they ran their offense and dictated to Dallas was impressive. Talk about imposing your will on a team. 

Our run defense has been much better than I thought. Having Tuitt makes a huge difference and Tyson Alualu has played very well as well. I don't expect numbers like they did against the Giants, but I think this team is capable of stuffing some early runs and forcing some longer plays on second and third downs. Can the Steelers 3rd down defense step up? The Browns will most likely have some successful times running the ball, as long as it is not sustained consistently, where it can put the defense off balance, the Steelers have a shot. If not, it can be a long hard afternoon for the defense. 

As much as Wills struggled last week, he's still having a good season overall and is a solid LT. I'd still imagine that Pitt's EDGE guys will test him though.

The pressure and the disruption of timing is what will be a key with the pass rush. Just like we can't completely stop Miles and company, we look to slow them down and contain them. I think that you would hope to do this with Watt and Bud. The key will be if they can get away with holding like some of the other OL's have. Is Bud a good or bad match up for Willis? I know that Miles is a bad match-up for our LT Villy based on history.

Larry O was limited in practice and if we don't have him, that's a big loss. Thankfully at least DT Jordan Elliott was a full participant. That bodes well for the DL, because being down those 2 guys really hurt last week.

Big O has had some solid games against us as well. I won't cry if he doesn't play. Your DL has seemed to match up well against our OL over the past few years. This is where Big Ben will be the difference maker in how he audibles and Randy F and M Canada attack the defense. 

Ben will have success against our awful pass defense, that much is a given. Sandejo is literally the worst safety in the NFL against the pass:

Ben has been pretty accurate, but our team has put the ball on the ground every game on offense or ST. This is concerning. I saw how a tipped pass in the Bills and Titans games set the tone. Ben has a lot of tipped balls at the line despite his height and I hope our receivers are sure handed, because turnovers led to the tie in the 2018 opener after getting out in front. The team who doesn't turn the ball over will have an inside track to winning (not to be redundant as I said this before, but I truly believe this).

The key is whether or not Mitchell plays well opposite Ward, and if the Browns can at least prevent big plays in the passing game, to go with chunk yardage downfield via tackling. 

This is why I say the offense needs to be patient. You can wear a defense down being patient and methodical. The defense makes a mistake or gets tired and the big play comes. Against the Giants, Denver and Texans, our offense tried to throw deep to get big plays. they almost got burned throwing long on third and fourth and one. Just get the dang first down.  The Steelers have to not beat themselves here. I honestly would not be trying to throw 50 and 60 yard bombs to Claypool. Maybe if I am second and a half yard, then yeah I take a shot, but first and ten or second and seven, No!!! 

Yeah, like I said, it's a benchmark and important game to gauge expectations the rest of the way. Are the Browns for real and was Week 1 against Baltimore a perfect storm of a short off-season, on the road, new regime, etc, or is that discrepancy really that big on some contenders? Are the Steelers a Super Bowl contender, or do they have some real concerns against quality opponents? 

I get this, but is that question really answered in October? This Steelers team has had fast starts and slow finishes and vice versa. They haven't won a SB since 2008. I am of the mindset that I hope the team is trending upward in November and December,  and are playing their absolute best football in January and February. The 2017 season comes to mind when they secured home field only to come out flat after a bye week and get bounced in the first round. One and dud!

I get it. In the NFL, a win is a win, and they shouldn't be punished for their very weak schedule. It was more or less to go with my point above, in that this is a benchmark game for both teams.

I agree in that if for no other reasons bragging rights. The Browns have not won in Pittsburgh in a very long time 2003, so this would be a huge win for them and a statement made.  For the Steelers, they have a chance to put some distance between our teams and at the same time maybe say, he we are Steel the top dawgs in this divisional battle Browns.

That said, sometimes if you consistently lose to good teams, that likely shows major flaws with your roster, at least from the Browns point of view.

We all have our teams that we struggle against. For the Steelers the Patriots get tossed around a lot because they have outplayed us in most games head to head.  It was always get over Belichick and the Patriots and for the Browns it is definitely beat Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh has enough experience in a lot of areas, as well as proven talent on their defense to not really be that concerned if they happen to lose, as it's likely just going to show their coaches areas for refinement. That said, if Cleveland gets pillaged through the air and Baker looks awful, those are REAL CONCERNS that may not have anything to do with coaching.

There are honestly so many factors that can play into how these things go. Do the refs let them play? Do they play a relatively clean game penalty wise? Are they picked apart because of of bad play and technique or is it because a veteran QB outsmarted or schemed your defense? Etc,. This is one area where style points may count. If you play a clean game and beat an opponent badly, hats off. If you get stupid or bad penalty calls that affect the flow of the game and sustain drives, etc. then while a bit po'ed, those things are more correctable.  Just getting out-coached, out-played, out-executed and physically dominated, those things are more concerning in my humble opinion.  Many times the Patriots did this to the Steelers including last year opening game. Ben and the offense looked horrible. It put pressure on the defense. They stayed on the field too long, got worn down and lost 30 or 33-3. In truth had they had some semblance of offense, the game would have been much closer and the Patriots offense would not have been given as many opportunities to move the ball and score. Throw in a few turnover, and it is butt ugly. Sometimes you just lose because they play a little harder or execute  a little better. This is the NFL, and I can live with that much more than beating yourself or being unprepared to play. It is hard to win them all, but it is important to win when you need to. We saw this with the Lakers and Heat in the NBA finals. The Heat out-hustled, out-shot and out-schemed the Lakers in Game 3. In Game 5, the Lakers tried to take them out, but the Heat just made more key shots and kept fighting. Despite how well the Heat played to stay with them, the Lakers were the better team and it came down to one shot that the Lakers missed (Danny Green three).  The next game the Lakers shut them down early and kept the foot on the pedal until midway in the fourth when the lead was so big that the game was in hand. Great teams and players do that.  

23 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Again, "could be", not a definite.

Again thanks as I really appreciate talking football and getting a perspective from our opponent and rival. I look forward to a good football game on Sunday.

[MWil23]

9 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

I get this, but is that question really answered in October?

I'm not cherry picking here, as I think we're on the same page and the dialogue has been great IMO on other ends. As one of my buddies once said about going on a date:

1 date is way too early to know if she's THE ONE, but sometimes, it's not too early to know if SHE'S NOT.

I think of that on a game like this for Cleveland. Granted, there are two opportunities and a lot can happen between now and then, but if Cleveland lays a complete egg here and gets thoroughly beat down, that could be an example of "SHE'S NOT!"

9 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Again thanks as I really appreciate talking football and getting a perspective from our opponent and rival. I look forward to a good football game on Sunday.

Same here man!

[Dcash4]

4 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Pouncey has been pretty solid this year

I think, overall, he has been as well. My real reasoning for not wanting Pouncey back is that I dont know that his salary will match his play (it probably doesnt currently, but whose really does?) and ever year we move forward I think that will matter more. 

[warfelg]

Pouncey will be back. Him and Ben have both admitted to wanting to end careers together. 

[Dcash4]

Man, what a bummer that DJ is out for this one. Starting to worry about his trajectory for this year. Tomlin always talks about the moving train, but that train is super important for the guy to work with Ben consistently. 

Excited to see Chase get more work, and more actual scheduled work....but DJ missing reps with Ben isn't good. Hope its just giving him the extra days to get back to work fully next week. 

[Dcash4]

1 minute ago, warfelg said:

Pouncey will be back. Him and Ben have both admitted to wanting to end careers together. 

Which is why I believe he will be extended as well. But it better be a number far closer to his brothers salary than his own per year. I dont think Pouncey on an extension can validate 8 figures. 

[mtmmike]

Thank you for post.

after some film review I think there has been a drop off at cams position plus Dupree this to me means that we can run on you guys 

Obj and Landry can both block Haden if you are in a 8 man front this is going to make things difficult for you if we are unbalanced the other way.

Any ways it is a pleasure rapping with you and i hope this game lives up to the hype.

[candyman93]

Health status for you guys?

 

 

On our side: Unless OBJ has covid, he’s playing Sunday. Pretty sure Stefanski just wanted to handle him with kids gloves. Baker and Jarvis will play, I know they’re both listed as questionable. Don’t believe that.

[Steeler Hitman]

4 hours ago, candyman93 said:

Health status for you guys?

For the Steelers: OG David DeCastro and WR Dionte Johnson are out. All others were full participants in Friday practice including FB Derrick Watt who missed the last game against the Eagles and most of the Texans game week three.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020/10/17/final-steelers-injury-report-for-week-6-vs-browns-lists-2-starters-out/
 

4 hours ago, candyman93 said:

On our side: Unless OBJ has covid, he’s playing Sunday. Pretty sure Stefanski just wanted to handle him with kids gloves. Baker and Jarvis will play, I know they’re both listed as questionable. Don’t believe that.

Pretty accurate with what you are reporting.

 

For the Browns:  OG Wyatt Teller, Safety's Ronnie Harrison & Karl Joseph, and LB Ryan Phillip are ruled out

WR's OBJ (Flu/Covid-19 check) , Jarvis Landry, QB Baker Mayfield (but expects to start), P Jamie Gillian, DT Larry Ogujobi,  DE Olivier Vernon and are questionable

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020/10/16/final-week-6-browns-injury-report-4-out-6-questionable-vs-steelers/

17 hours ago, mtmmike said:

Thank you for post.

"After some film review, I think there has been a drop off at cams position plus Dupree." 

Okay you got me hook, line and sinker, so reel me in!  You have to explain this to me.

You have to expound on this a little for me if you would be so kind. Our run defense thus far has played better than it has since the days of Aaron Smith, Casey Big Snack Hampton, Brett Da Beard Keisel.  The statistics show it and outside of Miles Sanders 74 yard run which caught the defense in an obvious passing situation 3rd and 15 I believe, they have shut down some teams who have traditionally run well (Saquaan Barkley and the Giants, The Bronco's and The Texans and the Eagles) although they typically do it (rushing) by committee.  This is definitely a case where the stats are not lying or being misread.  The Steelers run defense has been the most improved part of the defense.

The difference is Stephon Tuitt over Javon Hargraves. Tuitt is a better scheme fit for our defense and his size, strength and ability to win most one on one battles is freeing our LB'ers/Safety Bush, Williams and Edmunds to make tackles. Both Cam and Tuitt are extremely balanced in being able to play the run and rush from inside or outside equally. Hargraves was not a great fit for our defense and is more of a penetrator/slasher. He would actually fit your defensive scheme better than he did ours.

The past few years, teams ran fairly well against the Steelers. While last year, they stopped some of the carnage from like say from 2017, they were not as good as they have been this year. Bud has always been a better run stuffer than pass rusher. Last year and thus far this year he has upped his pass rushing abilities. Some could argue that he has also not faced as many of the better LT's (except for the Texan's Tunsil). At the end of 2019 Buffalo, the Jets, and Ravens all ran with some success against the Steelers. Some was in part to the offenses ineptness and the defense being on the field longer, but teams blocked us up better than they have thus far in 2020. I very respectfully disagree with you here.

This to me means that we can run on you guys.

I wouldn't and can't argue with you here. You see and believe what you see and believe, just as I do. The Browns are physical in the trenches and have matched up well with the Steelers in the trenches on both sides of the ball. If you had simply said something along those lines, I would agree. Come 1 pm tomorrow though we will all find out. While I don't believe the Steelers run defense will be as dominant as it was against the Giants, I would be surprised if the Browns had a 100 yard rusher or rushed for 150+ yards (Short of the Steelers giving up another long run). The Steelers game plan should be to try to make you throw in obvious passing situations. To do that they must put you and keep you in negative down in distance situations. That means not letting you guys run for five and six yards on first down. That would be our plan, but as Mike Tyson says:

Obj and Landry can both block Haden if you are in a 8 man front this is going to make things difficult for you if we are unbalanced the other way.

Nickel Back Mike Hilton is the guy you have to be worried about blitzing and in run support more so than Haden. I don't see the Steelers coming out with 8 in the box anymore so than I see the Browns trying that with Big Ben as they did against Mason and Duck last year. The Steelers are going to play their Nickel and base and test you. If you can beat it, then I have to see what adjustments they would make, but putting 8 in the box would not be good for containing your receivers and TE. The Browns have done a great job of using the run to open up the pass. Not talking smack, but our defense is not the Cowboys defense. Certainly if the Browns can run well and their offense is balanced it could be a long afternoon for Steelers Nation. However, if they can "contain" the Browns run and sustain some drives on offense, hold onto the ball, and score; it could be business as usual in Pittsburgh as well. Steelers can play complimentary football (if they can). Have had trouble doing that since 2017.

Any ways it is a pleasure rapping with you and I hope this game lives up to the hype.

I expect a good and physical game as usual. You guys ain't the "same ole Browns." Thanks and good rapping with Browns Nation as well. The difference this game I believe will be Big Ben who has played well against the Browns the majority of his career. I think most would agree the game plan to stop a Steelers offense with Mason or Duck behind the center will be different than with Big Ben. Our secondary has been the weakness of this defense thus far. OBJ, Landry and Austin will have to come up big. Steelers made Travis Fulgham look like Jerry Rice. 

[DawgX]

1 hour ago, Steeler Hitman said:

For the Steelers: OG David DeCastro and WR Dionte Johnson are out. All others were full participants in Friday practice including FB Derrick Watt who missed the last game against the Eagles and most of the Texans game week three.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020/10/17/final-steelers-injury-report-for-week-6-vs-browns-lists-2-starters-out/
 

Pretty accurate with what you are reporting.

 

For the Browns:  OG Wyatt Teller, Safety's Ronnie Harrison & Karl Joseph, and LB Ryan Phillip are ruled out

WR's OBJ (Flu/Covid-19 check) , Jarvis Landry, QB Baker Mayfield (but expects to start), P Jamie Gillian, DT Larry Ogujobi,  DE Olivier Vernon and are questionable

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020/10/16/final-week-6-browns-injury-report-4-out-6-questionable-vs-steelers/

I expect a good and physical game as usual. You guys ain't the "same ole Browns." Thanks and good rapping with Browns Nation as well. The difference this game I believe will be Big Ben who has played well against the Browns the majority of his career. I think most would agree the game plan to stop a Steelers offense with Mason or Duck behind the center will be different than with Big Ben. Our secondary has been the weakness of this defense thus far. OBJ, Landry and Austin will have to come up big. Steelers made Travis Fulgham look like Jerry Rice. 

Good thing for you guys is that our secondary is even worse AND we're banged up. I expect Ben to throw for over 350 yards unless we're really successful at applying pressure to him.

[mtmmike]

Both Dupree and Cams sacks are down

Did not see 1 tackle for loss from either of them against Denver.

Again this is a small sample size but I believe last year when we beat you the ground game was effective against you.

We averaged 4.4 per carry last year

Dupree,heyward,Heyward, Watt only had

1 sack between them.

I have not looked at when Pittsburgh beat us but we are 1 heck of a better running team this year.