jrry32 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 minute ago, beekay414 said: Exactly and that's why I always mention "for his size" when evaluating arm strength. If a 6'6" QB has the same arm strength as a 6'0" Chase Daniel, he does not have a good arm. Just a quick review of even a Foles highlight tape will show he didn't have a good arm coming out of Arizona. His deep balls floated huge, his drive on intermediate throws was very underwhelming for someone with a 6'6" base. There was nothing about Nick Foles's arm that read NFL strong. I feel like the book on Foles coming out was that he could "make all the NFL throws." Well, you can say the same about Trask. The thing is that with guys like that, just because they can "make" the throw doesn't mean you want them attempting it. I would say Jared Goff has a good but not elite arm. But if you watch Goff throw an intermediate out or comeback, the ball gets there in a hurry. Foles and Trask can get it there, but it's not getting there with the same urgency. It decreases the margin of error. That doesn't mean they can't succeed. You just have to be mindful of their limitations and design a system around it, like Gary Kubiak did with Matt Schaub. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I feel like the book on Foles coming out was that he could "make all the NFL throws." Well, you can say the same about Trask. The thing is that with guys like that, just because they can "make" the throw doesn't mean you want them attempting it. I would say Jared Goff has a good but not elite arm. But if you watch Goff throw an intermediate out or comeback, the ball gets there in a hurry. Foles and Trask can get it there, but it's not getting there with the same urgency. It decreases the margin of error. That doesn't mean they can't succeed. You just have to be mindful of their limitations and design a system around it, like Gary Kubiak did with Matt Schaub. Exactly. People read "can make all the throws" and think it equates to arm strength. No, it means he can read it and make it. That's the end of it. Or people see them throwing a football 60 yards on a deep ball and think that means they have arm strength. No, that's not what arm strength infers or all it infers. When I think arm strength, I think intermediate stuff or quick outs. Can you get it there before the DB can react. That's what I'm looking at with Trask and Jones. I'm not confident either can successfully, on a consistent basis, do it. You either have to have heightened anticipation if your arm is weaker or you have to have a ******* cannon. There's no in-between. Edited December 23, 2020 by beekay414 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Just now, beekay414 said: Exactly. People read "can make all the throws" and think it equates to arm strength. No, it means he can read it and make it. That's the end of it. Or people see them throwing a football 60 yards on a deep ball and think that means they have arm strength. No, that's not what arm strength infers or all it infers. When I think arm strength, I think intermediate stuff or quick outs. Can you get it there before the DB can react. That's what I'm looking at with Trask and Jones. I'm not confident either can successfully, on a consistent basis, can do it. You either have to have heightened anticipation if your arm is weaker or you have to have a ******* cannon. There's no in-between. I think the reality with Trask is that the intermediate out-breaking routes are largely off the table. He has great anticipation between the numbers and can get it there, but I'd be concerned about him outside the numbers beyond 10 yards unless it's a touch throw (flag, 9, etc.). To the extent you put those routes into the plan, it has to be against defenses that leave you rather large windows when you have another WR clear the space out. You basically need enough space for Kyle to float it in there. I'm bullish on Trask finding a way to be a starter because of his mind and skills. Physically, he's really at the bare minimum of what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Seriously though, if you want to know what I'm looking at when I'm looking at arm strength, watch that Tim Boyle tape. The zip on the ball on the intermediate stuff. The ability to get it there quick off platform. I don't care if you can throw a nice, in the bucket, deep ball. All NFL caliber QBs can do that. Can you get the ball out and to the target quick. If you can't anticipate it, you better have an arm that makes up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: I think the reality with Trask is that the intermediate out-breaking routes are largely off the table. He has great anticipation between the numbers and can get it there, but I'd be concerned about him outside the numbers beyond 10 yards unless it's a touch throw (flag, 9, etc.). To the extent you put those routes into the plan, it has to be against defenses that leave you rather large windows when you have another WR clear the space out. You basically need enough space for Kyle to float it in there. I'm bullish on Trask finding a way to be a starter because of his mind and skills. Physically, he's really at the bare minimum of what you need. Absolutely. Trask is either a decent starter in the right system with a coach that can call a game within his skills, or he's a back-up that's not going to lose you a game. He's going to have a long NFL career. LIS in my little attempt at a write up, you can see that Trask "gets it" so he should be a coach's dream. It's whether or not his physical limitations, which are the name of the game, will allow him to be a consistent starter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 24 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Seriously though, if you want to know what I'm looking at when I'm looking at arm strength, watch that Tim Boyle tape. The zip on the ball on the intermediate stuff. The ability to get it there quick off platform. I don't care if you can throw a nice, in the bucket, deep ball. All NFL caliber QBs can do that. Can you get the ball out and to the target quick. If you can't anticipate it, you better have an arm that makes up for it. And then you have Trevor Lawrence who has the anticipation and a rifle. I hope the Jaguars don't screw this up. They deserve a franchise QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: And then you have Trevor Lawrence who has the anticipation and a rifle. I hope the Jaguars don't screw this up. They deserve a franchise QB. Do they though? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, jrry32 said: And then you have Trevor Lawrence who has the anticipation and a rifle. I hope the Jaguars don't screw this up. They deserve a franchise QB. But are you seeing the same thing I'm seeing on the Boyle reel? Has nothing to do with him being a Packers backup and everything to do with the arm strength at his size. Everyone knows he's not an accurate QB or a great decision making QB thus why he was a UDFA prospect but the arm is real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I hope the Jaguars don't screw this up. We know how this ends... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 38 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Okay, so a QB with prototypical size, insanely good accuracy, a supposedly big arm and production fell to the back end of the 3rd round, why? because he was a statue, not especially accurate and considered a system QB. 38 minutes ago, jrry32 said: http://tucsoncitizen.com/wildcatreport/2011/09/02/all-about-nick-foles/ Rob Rang, a senior draft analyst for NFLDraftScout.com, hasn’t been as high on Foles as some analysts. NFLDraftScout.com has Foles as the ninth-best available quarterback for the 2012 draft, and Rang notes that in the spring the National Football Scouting service — which feeds early information to NFL some NFL teams — rated Foles in the seventh-round range. “I do know some scouts who are very intrigued by him, and they think the offense is limiting his opportunities to show off his arm,” Rang said. “And then there are some scouts — and quite frankly, scouts I respect a little bit more — who have some real reservations about his arm strength. But you get him in an all-star game, and who knows what happens? “He certainly looks like a quarterback in terms of he’s a big, strong kid. He’s can physically hold up to NFL pass rushers.” fair enough. There's Rang. And I found another no name one just now that hated his arm. Here are some others.. Nawrocki, "strong armed to deliver downfield" Mayock, " I kind of felt he had good but not great arm strength and kind of heavy feet," he said. "I didn't like his feet." Kiper, “Has the size, he has the arm to be a second-round draft pick,” “What concerns me, though, is inaccuracy at times.” Bleacher, "Nick Foles might not be the most accurate quarterback in the draft, but he can sure zip the ball in there." SI, "has that prototypical NFL-ready size and arm strength... He doesn't have much mobility and will need time to adjust to a traditional NFL offense" Scouts Inc, "While he doesn’t have the pocket mobility you’d like to see in the modern-era quarterback, he can beat pressure with a quick release. He also has a strong arm and above-average accuracy." SidelinesScout "Has an above-average arm and is capable of making every throw, gets good velocity on his intermediate throws" ----- I watched seasons worth of Cody Kessler, Colt McCoy, Brady Quinn, Charlie Frye....I know well what underwhelming arm strength is. Foles arm was/is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 minute ago, BrownLeader said: because he was a statue, not especially accurate and considered a system QB. Way to avoid the rest of the post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: I watched seasons worth of Cody Kessler, Colt McCoy, Brady Quinn, Charlie Frye....I know well what underwhelming arm strength is. Foles arm was/is fine. No offense, but I had the same experience with one of those guys on the list, because he actually started for my team. It was Nick Foles. To get zip or distance on the ball, the guy had to put his entire body into it. He was not able to generate easy velocity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, beekay414 said: But are you seeing the same thing I'm seeing on the Boyle reel? Has nothing to do with him being a Packers backup and everything to do with the arm strength at his size. Everyone knows he's not an accurate QB or a great decision making QB thus why he was a UDFA prospect but the arm is real. Being blunt, I didn't look. He's not a prospect, so I didn't feel like devoting time to watching lol. 28 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Do they though? Their fans do, at least. Imagine your franchise's best QB ever being Mark Brunell or David Garrard. Nothing against either guy, but that's like the best QB of a lost decade type, not best QB in franchise history type lol. 15 minutes ago, .Buzz said: We know how this ends... Y'all really need to not screw this up. The Rams did this for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: Being blunt, I didn't look. He's not a prospect, so I didn't feel like devoting time to watching lol. lol you'll see it in the first minute or two but I feel ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Way to avoid the rest of the post I was being polite.. Of course I watched Nick when he was at Arizona. https://tenor.com/view/****-lol-eat-it-spongebob-squarepants-eat-adick-gif-16430856 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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