ClutchDJ Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I don't need to rebut them. You haven't offered any analysis beyond, "No, you're wrong. You haven't watched him." Let me know when you have real analysis to offer. Then, we can talk. You’re the one that initiated the conversation despite not even abiding by your own statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 I really don't think there's anything special about Mac Jones's arm talent. He throws a really nice deep ball but you see how average his arm is when he's forced to throw off platform. His arm is fine but it's not something I'd classify as plus arm talent. His intermediate throws are nothing special either. Really, the only thing that's stood out, to me, is his deep ball which is a beaut. Just because you throw a nice deep ball doesn't mean you have plus arm talent. Plus, I am not in love with his release when he's forced to rush it. I don't know. I don't see a 1st round grade QB when I watch Mac Jones. Trask's arm is underwhelming for his size. Not a ton of juice on his intermediate throws either. He definitely manipulates the pocket well, which is something we don't see from Mac Jones because he has all day to throw (literally). Trask has really nice touch to make up for the lack of arm strength. Honestly, it almost always felt like Trask had someone in his lap due to how bad the right side of his OL was. I'd like to see what he could do if he had time to process. I do think he anticipates better than Jones and that, in part, is because he almost has to with how often he's pressured. You can tell Trask "gets it" but I question if he has the tools to be a successful NFL starter. Therefore, as with Mac Jones, I don't see a 1st Round grade QB. Both QBs look like they are running in mud so let's keep the "athleticism" out of it. They both have nice deep balls due to the stellar touch on their passes. Jones has a better arm but that's not saying much, tbqh. Neither have plus NFL arms and I don't trust either to consistently throw the ball off platform if forced. They are both pocket passers with average NFL arm strength. Jones having the better arm is like being happy that he's the tallest midget. Just because they may or may not get drafted in the 1st, doesn't mean they are 1st round grade. I lean with @CWood21 here by saying they are both closer to day 3 QBs tools wise than they are 1st round. Personally, I don't trust either to be anything more than really good back-ups at their peaks. They are both, very clearly, behind the other 4 major QBs in this class. I know that's probably not been argued against but it's really not worth investing such time arguing who is the better prospect. If your team is relying on them as your starter, they'll be looking for another QB in a few drafts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 14 hours ago, beekay414 said: I really don't think there's anything special about Mac Jones's arm talent. He throws a really nice deep ball but you see how average his arm is when he's forced to throw off platform. His arm is fine but it's not something I'd classify as plus arm talent. His intermediate throws are nothing special either. Really, the only thing that's stood out, to me, is his deep ball which is a beaut. Just because you throw a nice deep ball doesn't mean you have plus arm talent. Plus, I am not in love with his release when he's forced to rush it. I don't know. I don't see a 1st round grade QB when I watch Mac Jones. Trask's arm is underwhelming for his size. Not a ton of juice on his intermediate throws either. He definitely manipulates the pocket well, which is something we don't see from Mac Jones because he has all day to throw (literally). Trask has really nice touch to make up for the lack of arm strength. Honestly, it almost always felt like Trask had someone in his lap due to how bad the right side of his OL was. I'd like to see what he could do if he had time to process. I do think he anticipates better than Jones and that, in part, is because he almost has to with how often he's pressured. You can tell Trask "gets it" but I question if he has the tools to be a successful NFL starter. Therefore, as with Mac Jones, I don't see a 1st Round grade QB. Both QBs look like they are running in mud so let's keep the "athleticism" out of it. They both have nice deep balls due to the stellar touch on their passes. Jones has a better arm but that's not saying much, tbqh. Neither have plus NFL arms and I don't trust either to consistently throw the ball off platform if forced. They are both pocket passers with average NFL arm strength. Jones having the better arm is like being happy that he's the tallest midget. Just because they may or may not get drafted in the 1st, doesn't mean they are 1st round grade. I lean with @CWood21 here by saying they are both closer to day 3 QBs tools wise than they are 1st round. Personally, I don't trust either to be anything more than really good back-ups at their peaks. They are both, very clearly, behind the other 4 major QBs in this class. I know that's probably not been argued against but it's really not worth investing such time arguing who is the better prospect. If your team is relying on them as your starter, they'll be looking for another QB in a few drafts. I can understand not having Trask in the first round, but I think he's a stellar Day 2 pick. Say what you will for arm strength, but that's not the tool that separates the wheat from the chaff in the NFL. Trask will almost certainly not be elite because of his underwhelming physical traits, but his mental traits, instincts, skills, and intangibles give him a chance to be a solid starting QB. His ability to manipulate defenders with his eyes and know which matchup to attack is on par with veteran NFL starters. It's a shame he doesn't have a stronger arm. Maybe with some mechanical tweaks to his base and S&C work he can improve it. But that Bama game really showed Trask's talent. The guy torched Bama, and it wasn't because they were blowing coverages left and right. He was simply finding the right matchup and completing passes into NFL windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 hour ago, jrry32 said: I can understand not having Trask in the first round, but I think he's a stellar Day 2 pick. Say what you will for arm strength, but that's not the tool that separates the wheat from the chaff in the NFL. Trask will almost certainly not be elite because of his underwhelming physical traits, but his mental traits, instincts, skills, and intangibles give him a chance to be a solid starting QB. His ability to manipulate defenders with his eyes and know which matchup to attack is on par with veteran NFL starters. It's a shame he doesn't have a stronger arm. Maybe with some mechanical tweaks to his base and S&C work he can improve it. But that Bama game really showed Trask's talent. The guy torched Bama, and it wasn't because they were blowing coverages left and right. He was simply finding the right matchup and completing passes into NFL windows. Trask definitely has the cerebral ability to be an NFL starter, I just do not like the physical tools and I do think that they will end up hindering him at the next level. I think he can be something like a taller, pocket version of Andy Dalton. That's someone that I'm not thrilled with as my starter but is also someone I can live with. Trask would probably work really well in New Orleans tho. Payton knows how to work with cerebral, less than stellar arm strength types haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Trask definitely has the cerebral ability to be an NFL starter, I just do not like the physical tools and I do think that they will end up hindering him at the next level. I think he can be something like a taller, pocket version of Andy Dalton. That's someone that I'm not thrilled with as my starter but is also someone I can live with. Trask would probably work really well in New Orleans tho. Payton knows how to work with cerebral, less than stellar arm strength types haha. Matt Schaub is my comparison for him (it was Nick Foles in the past, but his decision making improved a lot this year). I agree that he fits well in New Orleans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Not totally surprising, even if I don't think Albright is as connected as he thinks he is. No QB has separated himself as QB2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Not totally surprising, even if I don't think Albright is as connected as he thinks he is. No QB has separated himself as QB2. I don't get who the third guy could possibly be (it's Lance, but I think that's ridiculous). Albright seems consistently on the money to me with things like this. I've followed him for a couple years now and it seems like he ends up being right with his tidbits/rumblings most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Just now, .Buzz said: I don't get who the third guy could possibly be (it's Lance, but I think that's ridiculous). Albright seems consistently on the money to me with things like this. I've followed him for a couple years now and it seems like he ends up being right with his tidbits/rumblings most of the time. I mean, it's not like what Albright here is saying anything out there. Most people have Fields or Wilson as QB2. I'm sure there's probably going to be at least one scout/talent evaluator who thinks Trey Lance is QB2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Just now, CWood21 said: I mean, it's not like what Albright here is saying anything out there. Most people have Fields or Wilson as QB2. I'm sure there's probably going to be at least one scout/talent evaluator who thinks Trey Lance is QB2. Wasn't really talking about this take, just in general. But agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Zach Wilson should really be ranked ahead of Justin Fields if Fields goes out and stinks it up against Clemson. Sucks Wilson is playing such a bad UCF defense though without their only good defensive back in Grant, that D is a disaster out there and they are getting killed. Isaac Rex looks freaking awesome as a freshman TE, Allgeier is a freaking tank at RB and they have a solid offensive line as well and both receivers have a shot at the NFL with the hands and route running they have. Fields is bigger physically than Wilson but Wilson is arguably just as fast, more accurate and is better throwing on the move and a better passer in general. Will see how it all goes but he could end up the #2 pick in the draft if things keep going this well for him in other pre draft work. Then again ultimately, he is more talented than Minshew but Minshew is arguably a better game manager and a little better under pressure. Still what else the Jags going to do outside of get a QB, same with the Jets really. Fact is though who had him as a 1st round pick before this season started? 2019: 199-319, 62% 2382 yards, 11 TDs 9 INTs sacked 19 times 2020: 211-302, 73 3267 yards, 30 TDs, 3 INTs sacked 10 times. Those numbers are higher obviously after this bowl game of course but still, pretty crazy improvement and crazy good year he is having. Granted he played Washington, USC, Utah and Tennessee last year.. Best defense he has played this season is Coastal Carolina which is obviously not Washington in the secondary. Great for Zach though to go out the way he has with a bang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, jrry32 said: Matt Schaub is my comparison for him (it was Nick Foles in the past, but his decision making improved a lot this year). I agree that he fits well in New Orleans. Still, Schaub and especially Foles have markedly stronger arms. My range projection on Trask by comp is between a 6'5 Matt Barkley. ...or a much less athletic Andy Dalton. Processing, I still feel Trask predetermines a lot of throws. Looking more at Mac Jones, he's reminding me more of Kurt Cousins at MSU, ...or another Trevor Siemian on the other end. Both he and Trask are going to get a Burrow bump this year. It's near impossible not to view them in that type of context now. If your Carolina with Brady as the OC who coached Burrow, I think you've got to look hard at Jones after having a pretty similar year. But i'd be scared asf to take either of them high. Fields is a brass balls Trubisky to me. The thing I liked most about Fields, his poise, is kind of swirling the drain this season. Lawrence and Wilson are the clear #1 and #2 imo. And I'm wagering heavily that a team is trading up for Wilson at #2 if that's the Jets pick. Edited December 23, 2020 by BrownLeader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Forge said: Better trade up to #2 if that's where the Jets land from the sounds of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Just now, .Buzz said: Better trade up to #2 if that's where the Jets land from the sounds of it. I'm just excited that we seriously looking. The first step in solving any problem is admitting there is one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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