Official 2021 QB Thread

[Scoundrel]

41 minutes ago, rickyt31 said:

I'll say it like this, I'm not sure if there is a QB in this class that does anything better than him. Carson Wentz was killing it until this year and Wentz's college numbers aren't even close to what Lance did last season.

He scans the field when the #1 target is not an option. It's honestly hard to find plays of Lawrence having to look from one side to another. He has the arm that can complete all the passes you need for any system. He steps in to his passes even when the pressure is in his face and moves well in the pocket. Also, he's a great decision maker. If he has to run, he can get more than the first down. He just does everything as good as anyone in the draft. I would draft him and sit him behind a vet for at least a few weeks until he shows he's comfortable on this level. 

Looking at their one game so far this season, I didn't see many bad decisions. He made the right reads. Either just too much zip on the passes or his guys dropped it. We also have to keep in mind that smaller school teams didn't get a chance to practice much and don't access to everything that could get them on track quickly like the bigger schools. A lot of players around him aren't playing with the expectations of going to the NFL, so some of them probably slacked off a bit. Who knows. One game isn't enough for me to write him off. One thing I noticed is that he didn't start running until the end of the 2nd when the game was still close. That's great because he knows when he needs to run and can change the game by doing it. That's great for a team like the Jets that will need someone who can find ways to move the chains when WRs can't get open or the oline can't hold the block. 

I appreciate the response but you lost me at the bolded. Lawrence does many things better than Lance does and if you in fact believed the opposite why is he your #2 QB and not #1?

[rickyt31]

12 minutes ago, Counselor said:

I appreciate the response but you lost me at the bolded. Lawrence does many things better than Lance does and if you in fact believed the opposite why is he your #2 QB and not #1?

I apologize about that, I meant to say MUCH better. What ever the comparison is, you can at least say Lance is close. I can't knock Lawrence because the little flaws I see from him at times can be fixed training with the right coaches during the offseason. Lance will have to adapt to the NFL level talent. Lawrence doesn't give you a reason to knock him out of the #1 spot. Lance's highlight tapes only show the big runs and deep passes, but he has a lot of nice tight window throws. If you're ranking each QB in categories like Best in pocket, deep passes, decision maker, and etc. Lance is up there at the top or close to it. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by rickyt31

[Scoundrel]

1 minute ago, rickyt31 said:

I apologize about that, I meant to say MUCH better. What ever the comparison is, you can at least say Lance is close. I can't knock Lawrence because the little flaws I see from him at times can be fixed training with the right coaches during the offseason. Lance will have to adapt to the NFL level talent. Lawrence doesn't give you a reason to knock him out of the #1 spot. Lance's highlight tapes only show the big runs and deep passes, but he has a lot of nice tight window throws. If you're ranking each QB in categories like Best in pocket, deep passes, decision maker, and etc. Lance is up there at the top or close to it. 

Got ya. Makes more sense now thank you. I think I have Lance at #3 ahead of Fields. I don’t know how to feel about Fields. Probably some recency bias as I had him ranked #2 a couple weeks ago. But I’m starting to see some aspects of his game the more I’ve been watching these guys that give me some pause.

[rickyt31]

Just now, Counselor said:

Got ya. Makes more sense now thank you. I think I have Lance at #3 ahead of Fields. I don’t know how to feel about Fields. Probably some recency bias as I had him ranked #2 a couple weeks ago. But I’m starting to see some aspects of his game the more I’ve been watching these guys that give me some pause.

No problem. I like Fields as well actually, but I need him to give me another great game against Clemson. I heard he hurt his thumb recently, so I'm seeing if that's a fact in his recent play. I'm happy with either, it's just that if Lance repeated what he did last season this year, it would be hard to pass up on him. He might just play a few games to boost his stock next spring and drop out for the draft. The fact that Lance looks better than how Wentz looked is a plus for me. If Lance is ready mentally, he's going to be dangerous. 

 

 

[Ozzy]

41 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

1) That's not arm strength, that's touch and placement. Very different things. Every QB worth their salt can throw a football 50-60 yards. You seem to have a hard time differentiating that. 
2) The discussion was about arm strength, not ball placement and the other intricacies of playing QB. Tim Boyle was used as an example of what I look at when I'm dissecting one aspect of the game, not the entire thing. You, again, can't seem to comprehend what the discussion was. So, no, Nick Foles wasn't being compared, as a QB, to a **** back-up that has done nothing. What someone has accomplished as a pro has no bearing on what they were as a prospect, so again, another irrelevant point to the discussion at hand. You really probably shouldn't chime in on things when you don't even know what's being discussed.

But, we were asked by a mod to stop discussing Nick Foles so I'll move on.

You used Tim Boyle as an example because you are a Wisconsin homer.  Sorry Tim Boyle is not a measure of QB arm strength or arm talent, that is the only example you can come up with?  I chimed in because it is a pathetic joke to include a guy like Tim Boyle in a QB discussion about anything.  He is so good they only drafted Jordan Love.  Why did they do that if he is such a talented passer?

Tim freaking Boyle.  Ok sure.  

Want to talk underutilized arm talent you should bring up JP Losman,  Kyle Boller some thought had a strong arm, that is BS all together again showing a nice spiral and nice velocity mean pretty much nothing if you cannot throw with timing and accuracy, Tarvaris Jackson would be another.  Should I bring them up as an example of anything?  No I should not because they accomplished nothing, but all accomplished way more than Tim Boyle probably ever will in his career.

So you and your bud say Mac Jones sucks and Kyle Trask is the bomb and Nick Foles is not a talented passer.  Go ahead.  Sorry I cannot comprehend this level of discussion anymore it is too high level. 

And no not every QB can throw a ball accurately downfield 50-60 yards and hit the target in stride, oh everyone can do it?  Then why do they not do it?  Sure everyone can do it against air or in a passing drill at the combine with no defenders sure.  

[beekay414]

4 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

You used Tim Boyle as an example because you are a Wisconsin homer.  Sorry Tim Boyle is not a measure of QB arm strength or arm talent, that is the only example you can come up with?  I chimed in because it is a pathetic joke to include a guy like Tim Boyle in a QB discussion about anything.  He is so good they only drafted Jordan Love.  Why did they do that if he is such a talented passer?

Tim freaking Boyle.  Ok sure.  

Want to talk underutilized arm talent you should bring up JP Losman,  Kyle Boller some thought had a strong arm, that is BS all together again showing a nice spiral and nice velocity mean pretty much nothing if you cannot throw with timing and accuracy, Tarvaris Jackson would be another.  Should I bring them up as an example of anything?  No I should not because they accomplished nothing, but all accomplished way more than Tim Boyle probably ever will in his career.

So you and your bud say Mac Jones sucks and Kyle Trask is the bomb and Nick Foles is not a talented passer.  Go ahead.  Sorry I cannot comprehend this level of discussion anymore it is too high level. 

And no not every QB can throw a ball accurately downfield 50-60 yards and hit the target in stride, oh everyone can do it?  Then why do they not do it?  Sure everyone can do it against air or in a passing drill at the combine with no defenders sure.  

lol oh look at that, you typed out a big rant and said absolutely nothing for the 1000th time on this site. Congratulations. If you cannot comprehend what's being discussed, don't take part in the conversation. You are the king of hyperbole and really have no business pretending you know anything about prospect evaluation. You literally failed to comprehend anything written and went off the deep end, again. Grow up and learn to converse like an adult if you wanna pretend you know anything about football. 

I don't feel the need to waste anymore of my time trying to explain myself to you because you'd just throw a hissy fit again and miss everything written. Enjoy your holiday weekend, big shot.

[Scoundrel]

4 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

lol oh look at that, you typed out a big rant and said absolutely nothing for the 1000th time on this site. Congratulations. If you cannot comprehend what's being discussed, don't take part in the conversation. You are the king of hyperbole and really have no business pretending you know anything about prospect evaluation. You literally failed to comprehend anything written and went off the deep end, again. Grow up and learn to converse like an adult if you wanna pretend you know anything about football. 

I don't feel the need to waste anymore of my time trying to explain myself to you because you'd just throw a hissy fit again and miss everything written. Enjoy your holiday weekend, big shot.

Your posting has become KJ Costello level. Can you at least bring it up to a Mac Jones level? Appreciate ya.

[Ragnarok]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I do not know what the hell this is all about, so Nick Foles has a crap arm all of a sudden?  What does this have to do with anything?  

 

Fact is Foles could sling it coming out of Arizona and was a talented all around passer, I agree with you on that.  In the video at the 33 second mark, 1:05 mark, 3:00 mark, 3:12 mark, 3:38 mark for example.  He had a damn talented arm for a college quarterback, arm strength is not just ball velocity coming off your hand, it is how far you can accurately throw a football down field and complete the pass consistently.   Sure maybe at times guys get a little overrated because of his height at quarterback but Foles is a Super Bowl champion QB being compared to a **** backup QB that has done nothing but has a good spiral and velocity on his passes?  It does not matter how pretty the pass looks coming off your hand if it is not on time and is not throw in a catchable position.    

 

Then again Cardale Jones had a cannon of an arm, that clearly does not matter if one cannot consistently complete passes accurately regardless of velocity or distance.  Nick had 70% completion percentage on that Super Bowl run, sure his entire career is not some Hall of Fame one but at least he accomplished something of note, something a certain other someone will probably never be able to say.  

 

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

That's not arm strength. That's accuracy and touch. The Rams' HB, Darrell Henderson, can throw a football about 70 yards. There aren't many guys who have consistently started games in the NFL at QB who aren't capable of chucking it 60+ yards. Regardless, the discussion wasn't about insulting Foles. It was about pointing out that him, Schaub, and Trask all had/have underwhelming arm strength. They compensate in different ways. With Foles, it's through touch passes and anticipation. He's always thrown fades well for that reason.

 

1 hour ago, beekay414 said:

1) That's not arm strength, that's touch and placement. Very different things. Every QB worth their salt can throw a football 50-60 yards. You seem to have a hard time differentiating that. 
2) The discussion was about arm strength, not ball placement and the other intricacies of playing QB. Tim Boyle was used as an example of what I look at when I'm dissecting one aspect of the game, not the entire thing. You, again, can't seem to comprehend what the discussion was. So, no, Nick Foles wasn't being compared, as a QB, to a **** back-up that has done nothing. What someone has accomplished as a pro has no bearing on what they were as a prospect, so again, another irrelevant point to the discussion at hand. You really probably shouldn't chime in on things when you don't even know what's being discussed.

But, we were asked by a mod to stop discussing Nick Foles so I'll move on.

 

13 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

Gentlemen, last I checked, Foles had been drafted.  So I dont think we need pages of discussion on him.

Thank you.

 

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, Counselor said:

Your posting has become KJ Costello level. Can you at least bring it up to a Mac Jones level? Appreciate ya.

Just matching my counterparts when needed. Appreciate ya.

[Scoundrel]

Just now, beekay414 said:

Just matching my counterparts when needed. Appreciate ya.

This is like a Felipe Franks level. Keep trying you’ll get there.

[Ozzy]

5 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

lol oh look at that, you typed out a big rant and said absolutely nothing for the 1000th time on this site. Congratulations. If you cannot comprehend what's being discussed, don't take part in the conversation. You are the king of hyperbole and really have no business pretending you know anything about prospect evaluation. You literally failed to comprehend anything written and went off the deep end, again. Grow up and learn to converse like an adult if you wanna pretend you know anything about football. 

I don't feel the need to waste anymore of my time trying to explain myself to you because you'd just throw a hissy fit again and miss everything written. Enjoy your holiday weekend, big shot.

Thanks for the tips Byron.  

 

Waiting on your prospects lists you will not be providing anytime soon.  Thanks for the support and yeah maybe this all is just a massive time kill thus my lacking recently in content like yourself.    Just let me know anyone wanting to hear your thoughts on things over mine, if that is the case see you all later, just let me know.  

[Forge]

1 minute ago, Counselor said:

This is like a Felipe Franks level. Keep trying you’ll get there.

Franks is awesome.

Okay, yeah, going to see myself out

[jrry32]

3 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Stuff

It's a discussion about evaluating arm strength in the QB prospect thread. I don't see the issue here. 

[Scoundrel]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

Franks is awesome.

Okay, yeah, going to see myself out

That is who will be the next niners QB now. Congrats.

[Forge]

Good pass or bad pass from a ball placement standpoint? I thought it was an excellent pass thrown how it needed to be. Roped rather than high over the shoulder, 40 yards in the bucket. I think he airs that over the shoulder, safety is there, but another niner fan disagrees with me and I'm seeing a lot of people have that opinion so I wanted to get other opinions. Am I the only one who likes this throw? It's definitely riskier, but I didn't think it was underthrown. Thought it was intentional