Soko Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Deadpulse said: RIght, because young players don't progress from year to year. Incoming “you don’t go from mediocre, the way this forum kept talking about him, to MVP candidate in one offseason”. Putting my bets in now. I mean, Bill Belichick certainly sees a ton of improvement, but what does he really know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: I mean, Bill Belichick certainly sees a ton of improvement, but what does he really know. Bill Belicheck has yet to use the eye test, that's why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Deadpulse said: RIght, because young players don't progress from year to year. Progress based on a better understanding of the game as well as familiarity with teammates. However, the physical traits don't change. I rate guys based largely on their physical traits. Its why I saw this coming with Josh Allen. You give an elite talent like Allen more weapons and more familiarity and it was inevitable he would explode statistically. Edited October 31, 2020 by VanS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 6 hours ago, ReggieCamp said: Baker Mayfield is 9th in QBR. Is QBR a bad metric? If so, then why did you use it to make your point. If you think Mayfield is good based on that stat then go right ahead. I don't think QBR (or any stat) is a good measure of talent. I only cited that stat for the posters on here who used to say Josh Allen wasn't good based on stats. If you know anything about me you would know I was saying Allen was an elite QB last year when his stats were mediocre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, VanS said: If you know anything about me you would know We would know you make incredibly bad takes... just like when you thought the scrub pass rusher for Cincy was a better pass rusher than Garrett... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 2 hours ago, buno67 said: We would know you make incredibly bad takes... just like when you thought the scrub pass rusher for Cincy was a better pass rusher than Garrett... Wait. What? I'm like one of the biggest Myles Garrett fans on here. I've been calling him the best defensive player in the league for a while now. To me he's a modern day combination of Bruce Smith and Reggie White. I've never said anyone on Cincy is better than him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) On 10/30/2020 at 7:27 PM, VanS said: Baker Mayfield is terrible. No different than the bad QBs Randy Moss dealt with in Oakland. I'm of the belief that once OBJ is out of Cleveland he'll be back to his usual pre-2019 self (assuming his new QB is halfway decent). As @ET80 mentioned, the best WRs overcome bad QB play. Surely you'd think the 2nd best WR in the NFL would be good enough to overcome sub-par QB play. Take Hopkins' season when half of it was with Tom Savage throwing to him. He still ended the season as an All Pro, Pro Bowl, 14.4 YPR, 92 YPG, and actually it was his best season so far in terms of TDs catches - his best ever. Why didn't OBJ elevate Baker or at least overcome it to an extent? Baker in 2019 was a better QB than Tom friggin Savage in 17. Edited November 1, 2020 by Hunter2_1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: As @ET80 mentioned, the best WRs overcome bad QB play. Surely you'd think the 2nd best WR in the NFL would be good enough to overcome sub-par QB play. Take Hopkins' season when half of it was with Tom Savage throwing to him. He still ended the season as an All Pro, Pro Bowl, 14.4 YPR, 92 YPG, and actually it was his best season so far in terms of TDs catches - his best ever. Why didn't OBJ elevate Baker or at least overcome it to an extent? Baker in 2019 was a better QB than Tom friggin Savage in 17. That's why I mentioned the years in New York when OBJ put up elite numbers with an over the hill Eli Manning as his QB. How do you think we got into that debate over whether the ankle injury seriously affected Odell's game? And FTR DeAndre Hopkins did have a year in 2016 where he caught only 4 TDs and 954 receiving yards in 16 games. So its not like he put up All-Pro numbers all the time regardless of his QB. Like OBJ in 2019 he did have a down year when paired with bad QB play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 On 10/30/2020 at 12:27 PM, VanS said: Baker Mayfield is terrible. No different than the bad QBs Randy Moss dealt with in Oakland. I'm of the belief that once OBJ is out of Cleveland he'll be back to his usual pre-2019 self (assuming his new QB is halfway decent). Imagine how good Hollywood Higgins could be if Baker wasn't holding him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 The silliness of the OBJ-top-WR discussion aside - there's no doubt that he's going to be missed. He's clearly their best WR, and the talk that the CLE pass game will go better when he's not around is likely going to take a sound beating. Having said that, there's no way I see OBJ as even a top 10 WR anymore. This isn't 2015-16. Add in the fact that while most players are back the next season playing, full explosion does not return for 18 months, well, you know where I lean here in his post-ACL return. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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