The Pats QB situation

[Soko]

On 3/22/2021 at 9:55 AM, DoleINGout said:

 

[Apparition]

Quote

 

“I think the New England Patriots could be real aggressive,” Brooks said. “We’ve seen the New England Patriots step outside their comfort zone as it relates to free agency. We saw them completely rebuild the roster with the number of signings and free agency. … I believe they’re about to go all in on an offensive makeover. The young quarterback is the final piece to the puzzle. And I think that quarterback will be an athletic quarterback.”

Added Jeremiah: “I keep an eye on somebody like Trey Lance or Justin Fields. Those are the two that would make sense for them to target. Hear a lot of rumors out there that they are really high on Justin Fields out of Ohio State. So, they’d have to (trade up) quite a ways to get Justin Fields.”

 

Literally just speculation on their part. lol

Would it surprise me if they moved up for Fields? Not at all. But these rumors definitely aren't coming from the team. 

[SBLIII]

I would not be stoked about Fields but at the same time not surprised to pair him with his mentor Cam.

[DoleINGout]

Maybe Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah just snoop on here and saw that I posted the Pats will probably try to trade up for Fields and thus the "rumors". Must be it.

[m haynes]

👀👀👀👀👀😁

Now we will here why this is not accurate. The numbers don't reflect his play on the field.  Just look, The old eye test !!!! Ya Ya Ya

 

[Soko]

2 hours ago, Starless said:

Literally just speculation on their part. lol

Would it surprise me if they moved up for Fields? Not at all. But these rumors definitely aren't coming from the team. 

Yup. Have pre-draft Patriot reports ever been accurate or tipped a hand?

[DoleINGout]

Look, I like Mac Jones. I think Jones profiles as a fit and potential target for the Patriots. It shouldn't be a surprise if he is the pick and in truth, it is a pick that ought to be celebrated if made. Do I trust the Patriots to make him their guy? No. They suck at drafting on offense in particular. All to often their evaluations are whack.

[DoleINGout]

On 1/11/2021 at 1:13 AM, DoleINGout said:

Get Mac Jones already and call it a day.

 

On 1/12/2021 at 9:16 AM, DoleINGout said:

Mac Jones and I don't have to think twice about it. Jimmy G has always been a terribly overrated investment.

 

On 1/12/2021 at 2:05 PM, DoleINGout said:

Mac Jones will be a top 10 pick at this point. If he is there at 15, the Pats would be drafting dumb yet again if they passed on another slam dunk.

 

On 1/12/2021 at 2:30 PM, Crimmage said:

You think so? Who would be drafting him that early or who are you thinking he gets drafted above? 

My thought had been that the earliest he would be drafted would be the 49ers

 

On 1/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, Starless said:

How is Mac Jones a top 10 pick? lol

He's not going higher than WFT at 19, and even that, I think, is too high for him given his ceiling (not to mention a poor fit for their offense).

Jones is a classic high floor/low ceiling guy. Dudes like that don't get picked in the top-10. Especially in years where the QB class is as deep as it is this year. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't go until the late 2nd round. 

 

On 1/12/2021 at 3:01 PM, Starless said:

People on this forum love to assume that NFL teams will always draft for need when they clearly do not. Teams have grades assigned for every player they scout. They're not going to draft a player higher than that grade justifies. There's not going to be any team with a top-10 grade on Mac Jones.

 

On 1/12/2021 at 3:56 PM, DoleINGout said:

Panthers at 8, Trey Lance at 14 to the Vikings assuming the Niners pass. Lawrence likely 1 and Fields no lower than 4 to the Atlanta.

 

On 1/15/2021 at 6:13 PM, DoleINGout said:

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2021/01/11/panthers-mock-alabama-mac-jones-pff/

 

On 1/19/2021 at 3:59 PM, DoleINGout said:

 

 

On 3/16/2021 at 9:43 AM, DoleINGout said:

Imagine adding Jaycee Horn to the secondary at corner? Of Zavon Collins to the front seven? Baron Browning perhaps? I expect the interest to be in Trey Lance and Mac Jones at 15 if available, possibly Jaylen Waddle if there still. But more than likely Kyle Trask will be the only QB left they feel comfortable taking in the first. In that case, maybe they trade down a few spots from 15.

 

On 3/19/2021 at 10:54 PM, DoleINGout said:

My bet is Justin Fields is the target in a trade up.

Should Fields be unattainable/taken but the Patriots still trade up, it is for Trey Lance.

If "settling" in the first round at 15, it is Mac Jones if available.

If not available at 15, it is Kyle Trask possibly even in a trade down should a team be willing to move up at that point.

If settling in the in the second round, it is Kellen Mond.

I was on the Mac Jones hype very early, as a fan of his for his game and fit with the Patriots - well before the rest of the forum started to see the great potential that he might be a guy you trade up for.

What I think they should do is different than what I predict them to do.

[Crimmage]

While they are bad at drafting offensive skill positions, I wouldn't say they are bad at drafting offense. 
 

• Given where they have drafted QBs they've done a pretty darn good job... Jimmy a starter.. Brisset could be a journeyman starter/ high end backup for years to come ... getting a superstar is hard, especially with how late they have drafted 
• Multiple great RBs ( mainly 3rd down guys) 
• Probably best OL success rate in the league

 

I'm likely more confident in this coaching staff than most, but I honestly feel they could draft Jones, Fields, Lance, or Mond and all would be successful on this team. Now how much success and how soon they would have success is a different story, but I don't think any would be a bust because this coaching staff would get the most out of them and adjust the offense to put them in a position to succeed. 

mhaynes has been loving Jones for a year now haha and I actually feel much better about drafting him today than a year ago. They've got more weapons and an amazing OL where he could probably start day 1 and do pretty well. 

 

The Cam/Fields connection really intrigues me for some reason, mainly because he has all the talent in the world.. just that he needs to put the work in to succeed at the next level. So if he has mentor Cam pushing him along with the coaching staff on and off the field I think he would get there and not flame out like Haskins. I wouldn't give up a huge trade package to get him though. 

 

I know everyone is saying the pro day is going to make Jones stock skyrocket but I think scouts are smarter than that.. they know who he is, running a 40 quicker than expected isnt going to make him a top 5 pick. My bigger concern has always been SF, I don't trust that they won't draft a QB in the first.. so you may very well need to leap over them to get any of the top 5 guys. 

[DoleINGout]

1 hour ago, Crimmage said:

The Cam/Fields connection really intrigues me for some reason, mainly because he has all the talent in the world.. just that he needs to put the work in to succeed at the next level. So if he has mentor Cam pushing him along with the coaching staff on and off the field I think he would get there and not flame out like Haskins.

Exactly. And the makeup of Fields and Haskins is different. Did you see Fields play hurt and throw for like 5 TD's in the CFB playoffs? He has "it"; Fields. Haskins was a super talented QB without the same demonstration of leadership and motivation.

[DoleINGout]

1 hour ago, Crimmage said:

I honestly feel they could draft Jones, Fields, Lance, or Mond and all would be successful on this team.

More or less, I agree. Just hard for me to trust Josh McDaniels though.

[m haynes]

14 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

mhaynes has been loving Jones for a year now haha

You gave me a good chuckle. When I started looking at QBs I didn't give much time looking at him. I watched a live game months before and I thought ya big deal another Bama QB. Than I went later and started looking for QB  that would be a great pick for the Pats. I found the perfect one Z Wilson, I blown away, he's the guy. Than I checked and everyone had him in the 3/4th RD  I thought they were nuts.

Now to Jones he was one of the last one I looked at, basically I said what heck might as well. This time I paid attention and I was shocked how accurate he was and how he was in complete control. Impressive. He throwing all over the field and hitting the guy perfectly in stride, Damn.  He's another thing that I found impressive that everyone thinks its a negative. Guys were wide open down the field and he is hitting them in stride, perfectly, which for some reason that's hard to do for many QBs. I search for anything Jones and another great quality I saw, the patience he had. You have the WRs covered  no big dea,l he just dumps it off to the RB and moves the team down the field.  I kept watching game vids and he rarely made mistakes with the ball.

36 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

I'm likely more confident in this coaching staff than most, but I honestly feel they could draft Jones, Fields, Lance, or Mond and all would be successful on this team. Now how much success and how soon they would have success is a different story,

That's what I call the Jacoby Brissett factor. The Texans game was a work of art! That's why I love Jones, he's ready by week one.

Last   I will be happy if the Pats pick Jones, Fields, Mond or Trask.  I also like Sam Ehlinger in the later RDs. Lance is the guy that I don't want any part of in the 1st RD, matter of fact I pass him in the 2nd as well.

My reason is this, I have watched and read everything Lance and I don't see anything that makes me think he has the mental skills to play in the NFL. Go look, you can't find anything (QB skill) that gives you any reason to pick him that high.

Please don't give me his physical tools they are useless if he can't play QB. Now that's me, I only can make a judgement based on what I looked at concerning  Lance. The Pats and other teams have every game tape and might see thing differently. Let me add NO ONE knows what teams think of Lance. Mel and the gain have no clue.   It amazes me the people blow of his level of competition . That is one of the things that scare me the most. He average 15 throws a game with a designated target if he wasn't open he ran, that's it folks!!  What the heck is he's going to do when he faces NFL defenses and the speed of the game.  It only take one game to destroy this kid career ,lets call that the Giovanni Carmazzi factor. Bill Walshs boy, one game against the Pats and his career was over!!

[DoleINGout]

1 hour ago, Crimmage said:

• Given where they have drafted QBs they've done a pretty darn good job... Jimmy a starter.. Brisset could be a journeyman starter/ high end backup for years to come ... getting a superstar is hard, especially with how late they have drafted 
• Multiple great RBs ( mainly 3rd down guys) 
• Probably best OL success rate in the league

They've taken RB's high that have been much less successful than guys drafted in the same round or later. Their OL evaluation I believe is solid but the development I attribute largely if not almost entirely to Dante Scarnecchia. QB development has been good as you have said. I trust that, however Jimmy G sucks. Ryan Mallett sucked. Kevin O'Connell why? Matt Cassel was a seventh round project that sucked as a backup and was great as a fill in for ONE season with same roster directly after the 2007 greatest offense arguably ever. QB's have been passed up and not optimal but not as bad as some franchises that have made picks at the position high out of poor organizational management and ownership caving for one reason or another to the pressure of just selecting one.

[Crimmage]

I think that's a bit harsh personally. The last 5 years really make it hard to defend BB's drafts but I have a good feeling about last years draft that those kids are going to be a start of things trending back in the right direction. 

 

RB: I'm fine with this track record .. BB just shouldn't draft 1st round RB's ( no team should imo) 

• Damien Harris had some great games last season and looks like a good pick
• Sony Michel wasn't a good pick, they got the wrong Georgia RB.. but I recall on draft night many liking that pick because he projected as more of a dual threat out of college. He had more receptions and higher yards per carry than Chubb. I remember analysts even having Brian Westbrook comps.. obviously that didn't work out though
• James White: Great Pick
• Shane Vareen: Didn't live up to a 2nd round pick imo but he had some good moments and got paid when he left. Could have been a lot worse
• Steven Ridley: Had fumble problems early but he had an awesome second year.. over 1500 yards from scrimmage. If it weren't for injuries he was going to do great things imo

 

OL:  Even without Scar I would trust this team to draft and develop OL better than any team in the league ( he's still in the background in a consultant role too I believe) 

• Onwenu: Steal and progressed throughout the year without Scar
• Herron: Filled in really well for a 6th round rookie at swing tackle. They seem to think highly of him and I wouldn't be surprised if he is starting RT after this season when Brown leaves. 

 

QB: I haven't really tracked other teams selections but almost all of the QBs taken are late.. and have stuck around the league / been great football minds.. I'm not sure what more we can ask given that none have ever been 1st rounders. Sure, they could have drafted Dak or Wilson,etc. but if I consider it a failure for not drafting those guys we are being rather harsh.

• Stidham: Looked awesome rookie preseason, had covid season, may be bust could be decent but probably nothing
• Danny Etling: 7th rounder.. didnt do anything
• Jacoby Brisset: 3rd rounder that was a short term starter and will likely be a quality backup / fringe starter for years to come
• Jimmy G: Looked awesome few moments with Pats, took SF to super bowl.. got paid big money .. if he weren't fragile we wouldn't be saying he sucked ( people wanted to trade Brady and keep him!) 
• Ryan Mallet: I think they didn't scout him much coming out.. so when he fell that far BB just thought it was too good of value to pass up .. I remember he was thought of as a top 10 pick at some point
• Zac Robinson: 7th rounder
• Kevin O' Connell : Didn't work out but is considered a top quality coach, better than most can say for their picks.. he's at least able to identify football minds
• Matt Cassel: Identified football IQ, was a fringe starter for years .. was in the league for something like a decade.. What more could you ask from a 7th rounder? 

Are they best in the league at drafting on offense, nope.. but do they suck .. also nope. Drafting in general has been below average last 5 years, but overall I think do an average to above average job on offense. 

 

Fields, Jones and Mond are my current favorites in this draft.. and given how BB spent in free agency I think he should just go all the way and trade up to get his guy at QB. If he likes Fields or Jones the best.. make it happen and trade up. I think either guy would be starting for this team halfway through the season after Cam has a few bad throwing games and they are slinging it everywhere in practice. 

[mission27]

4 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

Look, I like Mac Jones. I think Jones profiles as a fit and potential target for the Patriots. It shouldn't be a surprise if he is the pick and in truth, it is a pick that ought to be celebrated if made. Do I trust the Patriots to make him their guy? No. They suck at drafting on offense in particular. All to often their evaluations are whack.

I wouldn't say they suck at drafting offense.  They suck at drafting WR.  

In the past 20 years the Pats are one of only 4 teams that haven't picked a QB in the first round and they still managed to develop Tom Brady, Matt Cassel, Jimmy G, and Jacoby Brissett.  Sure guys like Kevin O'Connell and Ryan Mallet didn't pan out but the hit rate on 3rd round QBs in general is very low.  If they draft Mac in the first round I'll be bullish. 

Edit: Should also mention Hoyer.  Outside of TB12, Bill has drafted 4 QBs with mid-late round picks who ended up starting 30+ games for another franchise.  That's actually pretty impressive tbh.

Edited March 24, 2021 by mission27