The Lions Den: The Anything Thread

[nagahide13]

Michigan is guilty. They're probably going to be able to take advantage of this weird point in time when the NCAA has (justifiably) lost power and no other significant authority has taken control.

People are blowing the sign stealing stuff out of proportion. It's not that big of a deal.

The institution of a secret program within the football program to knowingly steal signs illegally is a real issue. I just don't think they'll face the same consequences as a team would have even 3 or 4 years ago.

Personally, I'm not a UM alumni. Whatever gloss the school has started to fade pretty quickly with the revelations of Dr. Robert Anderson's crimes. That and the absolute clown show that the football program has become are completely antithetical to what the school was supposed to be. There are serious veins of rot at the school, and they're largely based in willfully ignoring the negative actions of others wearing the same colors. I still root for the team but I no longer have any real loyalty.

Edited November 8, 2023 by nagahide13

[LionArkie]

7 hours ago, nagahide13 said:

Michigan is guilty. They're probably going to be able to take advantage of this weird point in time when the NCAA has (justifiably) lost power and no other significant authority has taken control.

People are blowing the sign stealing stuff out of proportion. It's not that big of a deal.

The institution of a secret program within the football program to knowingly steal signs illegally is a real issue. I just don't think they'll face the same consequences as a team would have even 3 or 4 years ago.

Personally, I'm not a UM alumni. Whatever gloss the school has started to fade pretty quickly with the revelations of Dr. Robert Anderson's crimes. That and the absolute clown show that the football program has become are completely antithetical to what the school was supposed to be. There are serious veins of rot at the school, and they're largely based in willfully ignoring the negative actions of others wearing the same colors. I still root for the team but I no longer have any real loyalty.

I think you nailed it. I'm not alumni either, but rooted for them. They are not what they once were, or maybe better said, they are not what they pretended to be. I find myself not caring as much about the program in the Harbaugh years.

[Louis Friend]

I am an alumni but not with the football team. 😂 TBH, I really just don’t care about the sign stealing. Every team does it. When you look at schools in big ten overall and the crimes they’ve covered up over the years, it’s hard for me to get worked up over some jackass recording sidelines. There are much bigger crimes, including ones committed by Michigan, that should be headlines and are not. I don’t see anything coming of this but people (mostly MSU and OSU fans and affiliates) will be pissed off that it will be “swept under the rug”. 

[Sllim Pickens]

Saying its not a big deal and everyone does it is crazy IMO.  Everyone tries to do it during games and with the tools they have, they dont go out and record and create manifestos for every call and then use it in games.  There are numerous videos of UM adjusting their play just before the snap and on 2nd and 9, crashing both S and all LBs to the same hole to stop a RB.  And another where UM played the screen without rushing a single defender, which has never happened ever without knowing the play.  Its like in the old Tecmo Bowl when you guessed the same play as the O and your D just blitzed and smashed the play.  Its easy to play defense if you know you don't have to pay attention to the run fake or if you know you don't have to worry about covering a zone on a pass play because you know its a run and where the run is going to.  

If you can learn that from normal scouting and in game review, great but thats insanely hard to do especially without some background on it.  

On top of that, if they did provide info to other schools such as South Carolina and CMU this year, thats a bigger issue IMO as it is collusion to alter the playoff selections for everyone, not just the Big Ten.  There is a huge difference between scouting for your own benefit and actively helping opponents to make your road to the playoffs easier.  

It all just ruins the integrity of the game IMO.  It turns it into WWF and if thats what they want it to be, I will gladly step away and stop giving them my money.  

[detfan782004]

6 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Saying its not a big deal and everyone does it is crazy IMO.  Everyone tries to do it during games and with the tools they have, they dont go out and record and create manifestos for every call and then use it in games.  There are numerous videos of UM adjusting their play just before the snap and on 2nd and 9, crashing both S and all LBs to the same hole to stop a RB.  And another where UM played the screen without rushing a single defender, which has never happened ever without knowing the play.  Its like in the old Tecmo Bowl when you guessed the same play as the O and your D just blitzed and smashed the play.  Its easy to play defense if you know you don't have to pay attention to the run fake or if you know you don't have to worry about covering a zone on a pass play because you know its a run and where the run is going to.  

If you can learn that from normal scouting and in game review, great but thats insanely hard to do especially without some background on it.  

On top of that, if they did provide info to other schools such as South Carolina and CMU this year, thats a bigger issue IMO as it is collusion to alter the playoff selections for everyone, not just the Big Ten.  There is a huge difference between scouting for your own benefit and actively helping opponents to make your road to the playoffs easier.  

It all just ruins the integrity of the game IMO.  It turns it into WWF and if thats what they want it to be, I will gladly step away and stop giving them my money.  

I have said it before in College forum. Everyone does it. But to the level Michigan did and such is bad. And that they should be withheld from playoffs if found guilty. But you can't find them guilty until you complete the investigation. So NCAA can expedite this and handle business or let Michigan into playoffs if they win out. It's up to NCAA and their speed 

[LionArkie]

1 hour ago, Louis Friend said:

I am an alumni but not with the football team. 😂 TBH, I really just don’t care about the sign stealing. Every team does it. When you look at schools in big ten overall and the crimes they’ve covered up over the years, it’s hard for me to get worked up over some jackass recording sidelines. There are much bigger crimes, including ones committed by Michigan, that should be headlines and are not. I don’t see anything coming of this but people (mostly MSU and OSU fans and affiliates) will be pissed off that it will be “swept under the rug”. 

For me, stealing signs is one thing as everyone does do it. However, I have an issue with blatantly buying up seats to steal the signs. To me that's a different level.
Honestly, I haven't followed the story that closely. I'm all out of f***s to give at the moment. But this doesn't seem to be the same image of Michigan the school used to try to portray. I respected that image. I don't respect this one under Harbaugh. I always considered Michigan different, however true or untrue that was. Now they appear to be just one more trying to justify that unethical edge.

But at least we didn't have that Mel Tucker guy. He was a real *** hat 😉

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by LionArkie

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, LionArkie said:

But at least we didn't have that Mel Tucker guy. He was a real *** hat 😉

 

I am so glad he gave us a reason to fire him without paying that contract.  Kenneth Walker sure did make that man a ton of money and he blew it away (pun intended).  Glad they moved quickly and removed him though, we have had enough negative press lately anyways. 

[Louis Friend]

4 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Saying its not a big deal and everyone does it is crazy IMO.  Everyone tries to do it during games and with the tools they have, they dont go out and record and create manifestos for every call and then use it in games.  There are numerous videos of UM adjusting their play just before the snap and on 2nd and 9, crashing both S and all LBs to the same hole to stop a RB.  And another where UM played the screen without rushing a single defender, which has never happened ever without knowing the play.  Its like in the old Tecmo Bowl when you guessed the same play as the O and your D just blitzed and smashed the play.  Its easy to play defense if you know you don't have to pay attention to the run fake or if you know you don't have to worry about covering a zone on a pass play because you know its a run and where the run is going to.  

If you can learn that from normal scouting and in game review, great but thats insanely hard to do especially without some background on it.  

On top of that, if they did provide info to other schools such as South Carolina and CMU this year, thats a bigger issue IMO as it is collusion to alter the playoff selections for everyone, not just the Big Ten.  There is a huge difference between scouting for your own benefit and actively helping opponents to make your road to the playoffs easier.  

It all just ruins the integrity of the game IMO.  It turns it into WWF and if thats what they want it to be, I will gladly step away and stop giving them my money.  

What about OSU and Rutgers sending a spreadsheet of Michigan signals to other Big Ten schools? Everyone does it. To what degree? We are finding out and to be honest, I just don’t care. There are much bigger scandals at all schools, including Michigan, that should be bigger news than stretching bylaws. 

[detfan782004]

31 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

What about OSU and Rutgers sending a spreadsheet of Michigan signals to other Big Ten schools? Everyone does it. To what degree? We are finding out and to be honest, I just don’t care. There are much bigger scandals at all schools, including Michigan, that should be bigger news than stretching bylaws. 

But they are dumb enough to have him on staff while other colleges aren't. The ignorance of Harbaugh on this is mind numbing. 

[Louis Friend]

3 hours ago, detfan782004 said:

But they are dumb enough to have him on staff while other colleges aren't. The ignorance of Harbaugh on this is mind numbing. 

The person who gave the spreadsheet and text messages to Michigan and the NCAA is employed by another Big Ten team. 

[Sllim Pickens]

14 hours ago, Louis Friend said:

What about OSU and Rutgers sending a spreadsheet of Michigan signals to other Big Ten schools? Everyone does it. To what degree? We are finding out and to be honest, I just don’t care. There are much bigger scandals at all schools, including Michigan, that should be bigger news than stretching bylaws. 

I think that is awful too.  I however find it more reasonable that when you know the opponents are stealing signals that you do it back to them.  They didn't steal everyones signals and share them, they were strictly after UM's as it was common knowledge amongst the B10 coaches that UM was stealing them somehow. They didn't know how they knew so much, and once the figured out what they were doing, they realized it was an unfair advantage. And those OSU and Rutgers signals were stolen during games as far as we know.  If they sent others to videotape them, then they should be penalized too. Its against the rules, if you break a rule you should be penalized even if the rule is dumb until they change the rule. 

[Sllim Pickens]

The tattoos for jersey's was a very dumb situation at OSU.  Almost everyone agreed that the kids really didn't do anything that bad and the team did not get an unfair advantage from it and they have now changed the rules on that.  Yet Tressell lost his career and OSU was on a bowl ban.  If you think this is less serious than that, you need to take off the homer goggles. 

[Louis Friend]

5 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I think that is awful too.  I however find it more reasonable that when you know the opponents are stealing signals that you do it back to them.  They didn't steal everyones signals and share them, they were strictly after UM's as it was common knowledge amongst the B10 coaches that UM was stealing them somehow. They didn't know how they knew so much, and once the figured out what they were doing, they realized it was an unfair advantage. And those OSU and Rutgers signals were stolen during games as far as we know.  If they sent others to videotape them, then they should be penalized too. Its against the rules, if you break a rule you should be penalized even if the rule is dumb until they change the rule. 

Except they shared signals last season. 

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, Louis Friend said:

Except they shared signals last season. 

They knew UM was stealing signals last year, and the year before, they just didn't know how.  Other teams were frustrated with how UM figured out all of their calls and did so early in games. Its why they warned TCU to change their signals.  It was common knowledge UM had them, and that is likely why OSU paid a PI to figure out how they were getting them. Those two teams shared info they obtained in their respective games with UM which is legal.  Sharing it is still crappy and deserves penalty but they were just trying to even the field. 

[nagahide13]

11 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

The tattoos for jersey's was a very dumb situation at OSU.  Almost everyone agreed that the kids really didn't do anything that bad and the team did not get an unfair advantage from it and they have now changed the rules on that.  Yet Tressell lost his career and OSU was on a bowl ban.  If you think this is less serious than that, you need to take off the homer goggles. 

That was a travesty of justice. Losing a natty because of tattoos was clearly overkill by a large factor. The NCAA has lost a significant amount of relevance and power since then, however. People are looking to the B1G to punish Michigan which pretty much cannot happen since the B1G doesn't oversee all of college football.