2021 DB Prospects

[VanS]

50 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Granted Stingley has only played two years, Champ Bailey in three years but still the comparisons well Stingley had a pretty down season last year.  Did not have a INT, had 10 less passes deflected and just simply was not as good and DeVonta Smith ate his lunch. 

 

Champ Bailey had 8 INTs, 511 yards kick returning, 978 yards receiving with 5 TDs and 99 yards rushing.

 

Stingley most likely will never be as productive as Champ was at Georgia offensively so just in terms of that they will never be the same much less Charles Woodson and his success outside of just defensively.  Sure all the talk of him switching to offense at times last year, how did that work out?  Champ was far more skilled in that regard and is a better tackler than Stingley has been.

 

Sure Stingley could have a great season this up coming year but Elam on Florida arguably had a better season than Stingley did last year.  Will be picked high sure unless he really stinks it up and the league is desperate for corners, but he needs to pick up his level of play big time before he even pretends to be as good as Champ Bailey or Charles Woodson.  PS Bailey and Woodson were part of big time defenses that were absolutely elite in college, LSU has kind of sucked on defense the past two seasons, kind of odd if Stingley is this all world corner that dominates and is so great...

 

If Stingley was in this draft he would probably go #10 to Dallas.  Doubt teams would take him over Trey Lance, Sewell, Pitts, Chase, Parsons etc.  Still could argue Surtain Jr is a more consistent player and is not bad at all.

 

 

Surtain had a 88.6 coverage grade last year

83.4 defensive grade

43.5% completion percentage for opposing QBs

 

He didn't give up more than 64 yards in a single game over the last two seasons combined.  Not totally sure but didn't Stingley give up more than that to DeVonta Smith this year alone?  

 

You care way too much about stats.  I was comparing him to Champ in terms of physical tools and pro potential.  Stingley having a down year last season means nothing.  He showed me enough as a true freshmen to rate him as the best collegiate CB I had seen since Champ Bailey. 

[Ozzy]

2 minutes ago, VanS said:

You care way too much about stats.  I was comparing him to Champ in terms of physical tools and pro potential.  Stingley having a down year last season means nothing.  He showed me enough as a true freshmen to rate him as the best collegiate CB I had seen since Champ Bailey. 

So Charles Woodson is not included in that then?  And Patrick Peterson pretty sure he is better coming out of college than Stingley Jr is right now, same with Jalen Ramsey after that amazing JR season he had and Vontae Davis was pretty damn impressive as was Antrel Rolle but Rolle's pro career not as much.

Oh and Patrick Peterson as a JR had 932 yards kick returning and 418 yards punt returning and 2 TDs.  If that does not show elite athletic ability than what does?  And again Stingley Jr was supposed to have the same type of explosive athletic ability showcases in his return ability and or ability to play offense, still waiting to see that actually on the field.  Great player but not nearly as polished as you and some others make him out to be, will see how he does next year.  

 

Yes how you played recently matters and how Stingley Jr played last year was a downgrade to what he did as a freshman.  That is not exactly a good thing, and again DeVonta Smith destroyed him on a few plays and that defense as a unit sucked.  That means nothing?  Ok.

[Techbert]

My cornerbacks. A lot depends on fit, and this is fit for a system I might use, which relies on a lot of man and some cover one and three zone.

1. Jaycee Horn. Has it all, and competitive as all get out. You say he is too grabby, and you worry that is all he is? Well, he was not always grabby. He adjusted to optimum grabbiness for his last season based on what was being called. If you look at Horn earlier, he was schooled by DeVonta Smith because he did not use his hands to locate the receivers. In the offseason he adjusted his style of play and came back as grabby Horn. I think he will continue to adjust in the league to what works best. The grabbiness is not baked in beyond repair. And the top NFL backs all make sure they get hands on.

2. Surtain. Remarkably similar to Horn. When he was beat it was when he could not get hands on the receiver.

3. Newsome. Very good man cover. Mediocre zone cover. Played in a zone-heavy scheme at NW.

4. Caleb Farley. I really wanted him to be my cb1, but at the end of the day despite what he says about wanting to be great he has not done what you need to do to be great. He plays amazingly well for someone with as little experience as he has at corner, but part of why he has so little experience rests on him. Oozes physical talent but is going to have a rough first year or two.

5. Samuel. Outplays the concept that he is only a slot corner. With that said, I expect his pro team to put him at slot.

Beyond that, it is all about scheme and fit. Melifonwu is probably next for me. Adebo is top 10 corner for me. I have Molden at safety not corner but he would be butter in the slot and could help out outside if he had to. I like Stokes more than Campbell. Joseph is the wild card. If he did not have a ten cent head he would probably be the cb1 or cb2 or cb3 based on what he does on the field, but he has a ten cent head. I can't slot him without reading interviews of his former coaches and teammates, and having some quality interview time with him.

[VanS]

On 4/21/2021 at 9:45 PM, Ozzy said:

So Charles Woodson is not included in that then?  And Patrick Peterson pretty sure he is better coming out of college than Stingley Jr is right now, same with Jalen Ramsey after that amazing JR season he had and Vontae Davis was pretty damn impressive as was Antrel Rolle but Rolle's pro career not as much.

Oh and Patrick Peterson as a JR had 932 yards kick returning and 418 yards punt returning and 2 TDs.  If that does not show elite athletic ability than what does?  And again Stingley Jr was supposed to have the same type of explosive athletic ability showcases in his return ability and or ability to play offense, still waiting to see that actually on the field.  Great player but not nearly as polished as you and some others make him out to be, will see how he does next year.  

 

Yes how you played recently matters and how Stingley Jr played last year was a downgrade to what he did as a freshman.  That is not exactly a good thing, and again DeVonta Smith destroyed him on a few plays and that defense as a unit sucked.  That means nothing?  Ok.

Woodson was drafted in '98.  Champ was drafted in '99.  I said Stingley was the best SINCE Champ in '99.

And yes I would rate Stingley above Patrick Peterson and Jalen Ramsey pretty easily.  Vontae Davis and Antrel Rolle aren't in this discussion at all.  I'll give it to you Devonta Smith roasted Stingley the last two years.  But I also remember a game when Champ Bailey was smoked by Chad Ochocinco.  Some guys just have other guys numbers.  It happens.  Devonta Smith might just be that guy for Stingley.  All I know is Stingley has had his way with just about everyone else.

I rate Stingley up there with Myles Garrett and Saquon Barkley as the best prospects regardless of position I have seen in the last 5-6 years.  He's that ELITE in my eyes.

[Ozzy]

7 hours ago, VanS said:

Woodson was drafted in '98.  Champ was drafted in '99.  I said Stingley was the best SINCE Champ in '99.

And yes I would rate Stingley above Patrick Peterson and Jalen Ramsey pretty easily.  Vontae Davis and Antrel Rolle aren't in this discussion at all.  I'll give it to you Devonta Smith roasted Stingley the last two years.  But I also remember a game when Champ Bailey was smoked by Chad Ochocinco.  Some guys just have other guys numbers.  It happens.  Devonta Smith might just be that guy for Stingley.  All I know is Stingley has had his way with just about everyone else.

I rate Stingley up there with Myles Garrett and Saquon Barkley as the best prospects regardless of position I have seen in the last 5-6 years.  He's that ELITE in my eyes.

That is fine, you can rate him highly off of just one great freshman season.  I am saying if he is this all world athlete than where is all the production in the return game and offensively?  That is something that is wildly difficult to do and only a hand full of corners have ever been good offensively, defensively and in the return game.

Still waiting on Stingley Jr to show that kind of elite all around athletic ability.  But fact is guys like Charles Woodson and Champ Bailey are just that rare and most likely prospects as great as them might not be seen again.  And I am aware one was drafted ahead of the other.  Still they are two of the best corners I have seen in the last 20+ years.  Derek Stingley Jr is not even close to being at their level as prospects right now.  He has a ways to go in terms of dominating on the field defensively first, then making things happen in the return game and offensively but not sure he will ever get to that point.

Again Patrick Peterson was far more elite and talented than Stingley is I feel right now, more physical, stronger tackler, better in the return game obviously and arguably a better all around athlete with more power.  On 7 INTs in two years for Peterson he had 171 yards returning and 1 TD averaging 24.4 yards a return on interceptions alone!  If that does not show big time elite athletic ability with the ball in your hands what does?  Until Stingley shows similar ball skills and return ability with the ball in his hands he is just simply not the same as Champ, Charles or Patrick to me, showed some flashes in the punt return game as a FR but needs to really take it up a notch to get on the same level as those three for sure.  Ramsey, Rolle and Vontae were all great corner prospects as well just did not have the ball skills and return potential those other three had.     

[MSURacerDT55]

On 4/21/2021 at 10:35 PM, VanS said:

He showed me enough as a true freshmen to rate him as the best collegiate CB I had seen since Champ Bailey. 

I bet you were going bonkers over Dre Bly 

[Ozzy]

4 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I bet you were going bonkers over Dre Bly 

He was a great player, benefited a lot from what was around him though Greg Ellis, Vonnie Holiday, Russell Davis, Kivuusamma Mays, Keith Newman, Brian Simmons, Omar Brown etc.  That was freshman season then years after that added Ebenezer Ekuban, Brandon Spoon and Sedrick Hodge to the group.  Amazing front 7 with most of those UNC teams.  Bly had great balls skills though and clearly was a solid pro, not a Hall of Famer but has some really good years in the NFL.  

Jamar Fletcher is an interesting one, he had 7 INTs three years in a row which is wildly impressive.  Is tied for 5th all time in INTs in college football history.  Never really took on in the NFL though, was a pretty poor tackler and not very strong but he had some great ball skills and seem to always get his hands on the football in college.  Alphonso Smith recently had some great ball skills also but took him four years to rack up that many INTs not three, and was small like Fletcher and really did not stick around in the NFL much either.

[MSURacerDT55]

4 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

He was a great player, benefited a lot from what was around him though Greg Ellis, Vonnie Holiday, Russell Davis, Kivuusamma Mays, Keith Newman, Brian Simmons, Omar Brown etc.  That was freshman season then years after that added Ebenezer Ekuban, Brandon Spoon and Sedrick Hodge to the group.  Amazing front 7 with most of those UNC teams.  Bly had great balls skills though and clearly was a solid pro, not a Hall of Famer but has some really good years in the NFL.  

Jamar Fletcher is an interesting one, he had 7 INTs three years in a row which is wildly impressive.  Is tied for 5th all time in INTs in college football history.  Never really took on in the NFL though, was a pretty poor tackler and not very strong but he had some great ball skills and seem to always get his hands on the football in college.  Alphonso Smith recently had some great ball skills also but took him four years to rack up that many INTs not three, and was small like Fletcher and really did not stick around in the NFL much either.

God was UNC loaded on defense 👀

[VanS]

9 hours ago, Ozzy said:

That is fine, you can rate him highly off of just one great freshman season.  I am saying if he is this all world athlete than where is all the production in the return game and offensively?  That is something that is wildly difficult to do and only a hand full of corners have ever been good offensively, defensively and in the return game.

Still waiting on Stingley Jr to show that kind of elite all around athletic ability.  But fact is guys like Charles Woodson and Champ Bailey are just that rare and most likely prospects as great as them might not be seen again.  And I am aware one was drafted ahead of the other.  Still they are two of the best corners I have seen in the last 20+ years.  Derek Stingley Jr is not even close to being at their level as prospects right now.  He has a ways to go in terms of dominating on the field defensively first, then making things happen in the return game and offensively but not sure he will ever get to that point.

Again Patrick Peterson was far more elite and talented than Stingley is I feel right now, more physical, stronger tackler, better in the return game obviously and arguably a better all around athlete with more power.  On 7 INTs in two years for Peterson he had 171 yards returning and 1 TD averaging 24.4 yards a return on interceptions alone!  If that does not show big time elite athletic ability with the ball in your hands what does?  Until Stingley shows similar ball skills and return ability with the ball in his hands he is just simply not the same as Champ, Charles or Patrick to me, showed some flashes in the punt return game as a FR but needs to really take it up a notch to get on the same level as those three for sure.  Ramsey, Rolle and Vontae were all great corner prospects as well just did not have the ball skills and return potential those other three had.     

Cool.  As I always say we will let the future decide who is right.  I am all aboard the Derek Stingley hype train and I ain't getting off simply because of a down year during a "pandemic". 

[VanS]

8 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I bet you were going bonkers over Dre Bly 

I always liked Dre Bly.  Thought he was a really good corner.  But never saw him as super elite.  I actually compared Jaire Alexander to Dre Bly when Alexander was coming out of college.  Both are really good but not on the same level as guys like Champ and Stingley. 

[jrry32]

7 hours ago, VanS said:

I always liked Dre Bly.  Thought he was a really good corner.  But never saw him as super elite.  I actually compared Jaire Alexander to Dre Bly when Alexander was coming out of college.  Both are really good but not on the same level as guys like Champ and Stingley. 

Alexander is better than Bly. Dre was a playmaker, but he gave up plays in coverage because of his risk-taking. Janoris Jenkins had a game similar to Dre's. Alexander is a better pure cover CB.

[VanS]

9 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Alexander is better than Bly. Dre was a playmaker, but he gave up plays in coverage because of his risk-taking. Janoris Jenkins had a game similar to Dre's. Alexander is a better pure cover CB.

I agree.  Jaire is better.

[Scoundrel]

17 hours ago, VanS said:

Cool.  As I always say we will let the future decide who is right.  I am all aboard the Derek Stingley hype train and I ain't getting off simply because of a down year during a "pandemic". 

Josh Dobbs says thank you

[VanS]

13 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

Josh Dobbs says thank you

26 year old QB.  He still has time.  At least 10 years of prime level QB play. 

[RaidersAreOne]

Woof.