Week 17 - Rams vs Cardinals

[jrry32]

5 minutes ago, NVRamsFan said:

And anybody who thinks the Ramsey trade and contract wasn't worth it needs to rethink that. He's been amazing for us and was well worth it. 

That trade has panned out in a major way. Ramsey is an absolute stud. The freedom he gives the rest of the secondary is a big reason why this scheme is so effective. Plus, he actually tackles on the edge (cough Peters cough).

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

He had a couple other throws in the game that were quite iffy. Arizona's pass defense isn't good. Goff didn't turn it over when we played them. I'm far from convinced he's a safer option than Goff with regard to turnovers.

And now teams actually have tape on Wolford, even against a very bad ARZ pass D. And good defensive minds (yes even Seattle) are going to pick that apart. I hope Wolf is our solid backup for the next handful of years and we can trust him in that role. But this is usually seen from non-trash level backups in their first appearance. And if you would look at the history of those, the next time they (expectedly) play, especially against a good defense, it gets ugly fast. 

Wolford did a good job of making stuff happen. It wasn’t always exactly what was supposed to happen, but he got good enough results not to lose. Because by no stretch of the imagination did he go out and win this game. The offense scored the same amount of points the defense did.

It is not the least but surprising to me the praise being heaped on him around here, because it was quite clear that most of you were more worried about being “excited” by some plays and not so much the actual results of the offense. 

This was completely a defensive win, without them we don’t crack double digits, not to mention the blocked kick that kept the Cards at 7 points. I’m very glad we won, but also don’t forget, it was Wolfords INT that lead directly to their only score. 

[rocky_rams]

4 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

I do.

The points will come. This was his first start ever without our LT, WR1, or RB2. Everett dropped a TD and Akers fumbled on the 1. Those deep shots will eventually connect or lead to PI calls. We know what we get with Jared Goff and turnovers scare me. They kill momentum and hang our defense out to dry. I wouldnt be mad if Goff started next week, but I like the idea of what Wolford could be. It's certainly riskier, but I would roll the dice on JW. Let's see what McVay thinks. He certainly likes him.

Goff is def still the better option. Goff is a better thrower, knows the offense more, and has playoff experience.  Wolford has higher IQ. 
 

If Goff is healthy I would prefer him to start. Seattle uncharacteristically blitzed us last game. I think McVay has an answer for it. 
 

I also think that since he let Wolford rip it, he would let Goff do the same. It was good for Goff to take the week off and hopefully self reflected and watched extra film. I think he comes back with a slight chip on his shoulder. If the OL can protect we should be good with Goff. Especially if Kupp is back. 
 

If Goff stinks it up and we lose, best believe that McVay will be strategizing towards a long term replacement

[NYRamsFan88]

5 hours ago, jrry32 said:

That trade has panned out in a major way. Ramsey is an absolute stud. The freedom he gives the rest of the secondary is a big reason why this scheme is so effective. Plus, he actually tackles on the edge (cough Peters cough).

Glad Peters is gone, if he’s not staring into the backfield hoping for a pick six, he’s getting torched by receivers every other play. And don’t get me started with how he carries himself on the field, I’d be disgusted with him if he was spitting at players while wearing a Rams jersey.

[BStanRamFan]

4 hours ago, rocky_rams said:

Goff is def still the better option. Goff is a better thrower, knows the offense more, and has playoff experience.  Wolford has higher IQ. 
 

If Goff is healthy I would prefer him to start. Seattle uncharacteristically blitzed us last game. I think McVay has an answer for it. 
 

I also think that since he let Wolford rip it, he would let Goff do the same. It was good for Goff to take the week off and hopefully self reflected and watched extra film. I think he comes back with a slight chip on his shoulder. If the OL can protect we should be good with Goff. Especially if Kupp is back. 
 

If Goff stinks it up and we lose, best believe that McVay will be strategizing towards a long term replacement

Arizona has the 3rd highest blitz rate in the league (I think 39%). The answer for it is having a QB who can escape pressure. Goff cannot do that. Wolford can. 

It's very telling that McVay let JW rip it actually. Means he believes that JW has a grasp of the offense. I think he does too. He was going through is progressions nicely, kept his feet moving in the pocket, made great throws with pressure in his face(that 4th and 2 to Higbee was impressive). I'll give you Goff has more playoff experience and a better natural passer, but JW had "something" yesterday. Tough to explain it. More reps and those errant passes become fewer and farther between.

Interesting tweet I saw after the game from a PFF analyst.

 

 

[BStanRamFan]

7 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

And now teams actually have tape on Wolford, even against a very bad ARZ pass D. And good defensive minds (yes even Seattle) are going to pick that apart. I hope Wolf is our solid backup for the next handful of years and we can trust him in that role. But this is usually seen from non-trash level backups in their first appearance. And if you would look at the history of those, the next time they (expectedly) play, especially against a good defense, it gets ugly fast. 

 

They rank 10th in passing YPG and 12th in PPG and 15th in QBR. I realize them being a middle of the road pass defense doesn't fit your angle, but let's atleast keep our forum factual.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?group=D&cat=T&sort=ptsgm

[JonStark]

10 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

Interesting tweet I saw after the game from a PFF analyst.

 

 

That dude started the Wolford hype train. I wouldn't expect him to say anything differently. Literally the only direct comparison we can make right now is:

Against the Cardinals this season:
Jared Goff: 37/47, 351 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 4 carries, 1 yard, 1 TD
John Wolford: 22/38, 231 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT, 6 carries, 56 yards, 0 TD

Draft capital has nothing to do with which QB gives us the better chance next week. Seattle isn't going to grade them on a curve. Wolford played well and probably exceeded expectations for being an UDFA, but as of right now, Goff is the better QB. Arizona stacked the box, leaving windows for Wolford to hit (which he did for the most part). What happens when that goes away? Wolford has the mobility, but that's it. Let's just hope Mcvay calls a similar game with the deep routes next week if Goff is healthy. 

[BStanRamFan]

4 minutes ago, JonStark said:

That dude started the Wolford hype train. I wouldn't expect him to say anything differently. Literally the only direct comparison we can make right now is:

Against the Cardinals this season:
Jared Goff: 37/47, 351 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 4 carries, 1 yard, 1 TD
John Wolford: 22/38, 231 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT, 6 carries, 56 yards, 0 TD

Draft capital has nothing to do with which QB gives us the better chance next week. Seattle isn't going to grade them on a curve. Wolford played well and probably exceeded expectations for being an UDFA, but as of right now, Goff is the better QB. Arizona stacked the box, leaving windows for Wolford to hit (which he did for the most part). What happens when that goes away? Wolford has the mobility, but that's it. Let's just hope Mcvay calls a similar game with the deep routes next week if Goff is healthy. 

God I hope not lol Goff sitting in the pocket for longer than 4 seconds to let those routes develop just screams turnover. Mobility in a play action offense(which we have) is very, very valuable. It keeps defenses honest. Arizona stacked the box, so let's assume SEA won't...then Wolford makes plays with his legs. Where you run into issues with a mobile QB is if you have to play from behind (Lamar Jackson/Balt). With the best defense in the league, I'm less concerned about that game script.

Goff is the safer play next week if healthy, no doubt about it. But I think if we have aspirations of making a long run in this years playoffs, we need to come at teams with something different. I keep seeing "Now teams will have tape on Wolford". Yeah, 1 game. Teams have 4 years on Goff and know EXACTLY what rattles his cage. 

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, BStanRamFan said:

Arizona has the 3rd highest blitz rate in the league (I think 39%). The answer for it is having a QB who can escape pressure. Goff cannot do that. Wolford can. 

The answer for beating the blitz is having a QB who will spot it, change the protections, and throw to beat it.

Quote

It's very telling that McVay let JW rip it actually. Means he believes that JW has a grasp of the offense. I think he does too. He was going through is progressions nicely, kept his feet moving in the pocket, made great throws with pressure in his face(that 4th and 2 to Higbee was impressive). I'll give you Goff has more playoff experience and a better natural passer, but JW had "something" yesterday. Tough to explain it. More reps and those errant passes become fewer and farther between.

Yes, he had mobility. That's the something. Unfortunately, he didn't have the same ability as a passer. And I'm not inclined to assume that the errant passes were just happenstance. Wolford is the backup for a reason.

[BStanRamFan]

28 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

The answer for beating the blitz is having a QB who will spot it, change the protections, and throw to beat it.

And we think Goff can do that consistently? He's shown that this season? Cause that's the Goff we head into the playoffs with; this season. Not 2018.

28 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Yes, he had mobility. That's the something. Unfortunately, he didn't have the same ability as a passer. And I'm not inclined to assume that the errant passes were just happenstance. Wolford is the backup for a reason.

Reps are the best thing for a passer. It also improves the timing with your wide receivers. Wolf did not have that, but I'm confident more reps would show improvement.

Wolford is a back up because he's 5'10 in heels and UDFA. No one in their right mind would start a season at QB with that, but if the opportunity presents itself you have the chance to show something. I thought he did. Some people, think it wasn't enough to displace Goff. Rams twitter is also torn on the issue. It's a real discussion with Goff healthy or not.

 

 

 

EPA=Expected Points Added. Not a common offensive stat and sample size is small for Wolford, but something to look at. Running game was awful yesterday for Wolford, but he was a more productive passer than Goff.

You know we're going to go in circles on this one, but the only thing that matters is what McVay does. If he chooses Goff, great let's roll baby. If not, well...this kid could have something.🤷‍♂️

Edited January 4, 2021 by BStanRamFan

[LeotheLion]

7 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

And we think Goff can do that consistently? He's shown that this season? Cause that's the Goff we head into the playoffs with; this season. Not 2018.

Reps are the best thing for a passer. It also improves the timing with your wide receivers. Wolf did not have that, but I'm confident more reps would show improvement.

Wolford is a back up because he's 5'10 in heels and UDFA. No one in their right mind would start a season at QB with that, but if the opportunity presents itself you have the chance to show something. I thought he did. Some people, think it wasn't enough to displace Goff. Rams twitter is also torn on the issue. It's a real discussion with Goff healthy or not.

 

 

 

EPA=Expected Points Added. Not a common offensive stat and sample size is small for Wolford, but something to look at. Running game was awful yesterday for Wolford, but he was a more productive passer than Goff.

You know we're going to go in circles on this one, but the only thing that matters is what McVay does. If he chooses Goff, great let's roll baby. If not, well...this kid could have something.🤷‍♂️

How was he more productive passer than Goff lol. The Bucs earlier this year also shut down the running game and the offense scored points through the air. 

Anyone showing Goff stats from week 8 on has an agenda. That's not after the bye. It's cut to include the Miami game into the count. 

My potential take is the biggest decision this week is not on QB but if Whitworth can be back and the run game can be effective. Without that, I'm not sure the running game matters much. 

[jrry32]

33 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

And we think Goff can do that consistently? He's shown that this season? Cause that's the Goff we head into the playoffs with; this season. Not 2018.

I think he can do it more consistently than Wolford can do it or run away from the blitz.

Quote

Reps are the best thing for a passer. It also improves the timing with your wide receivers. Wolf did not have that, but I'm confident more reps would show improvement.

And yet, plenty of other first-time starters had their best games early on before declining as the NFL got more film on them. Wolford has been practicing all year with the team.

Quote

Wolford is a back up because he's 5'10 in heels and UDFA. No one in their right mind would start a season at QB with that, but if the opportunity presents itself you have the chance to show something. I thought he did. Some people, think it wasn't enough to displace Goff. Rams twitter is also torn on the issue. It's a real discussion with Goff healthy or not.

Wolford measured in at 5'11" and a half without shoes. And McVay is exactly the sort who would start a UDFA if he was outperforming the starter. 

Quote

EPA=Expected Points Added. Not a common offensive stat and sample size is small for Wolford, but something to look at. Running game was awful yesterday for Wolford, but he was a more productive passer than Goff.

How nice of Sosa to engage in bad faith. Jared Goff's EPA per play against Arizona was 0.377. Wolford was not even close to as productive as Goff against the team both actually faced.

[dtwizzy2k8]

I wonder if it would be useful to have Wolford in a "Taysom Hill" type of role, where he comes in for some plays, adds a running dimension, and makes it harder for the defense to predict/stop us. I would like to see that against Seattle, even if it's only for a handful of plays.

[BStanRamFan]

11 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I think he can do it more consistently than Wolford can do it or run away from the blitz.

I don't.

11 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

And yet, plenty of other first-time starters had their best games early on before declining as the NFL got more film on them. Wolford has been practicing all year with the team.

Game speed and practice are not the same.

12 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Wolford measured in at 5'11" and a half without shoes. And McVay is exactly the sort who would start a UDFA if he was outperforming the starter. 

It was a joke. He's tiny comparatively. And we will find out this week if McVay wants to do that..

13 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

How nice of Sosa to engage in bad faith. Jared Goff's EPA per play against Arizona was 0.377. Wolford was not even close to as productive as Goff against the team both actually faced.

The running game was not the same in both games, but should be included that Goff played very well his last game vs ARI. 

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, BStanRamFan said:

I don't.

Well, we have only a single game of Wolford, and he performed worse than Goff.

Quote

The running game was not the same in both games, but should be included that Goff played very well his last game vs ARI.

The running game wasn't the same because Arizona didn't stack the box against Goff like they did against Wolford. They feared Goff would beat them through the air.