Packers (Unofficially?) Promote Maurice Drayton to ST Coordinator

[Malfatron]

Lets hire Urban Meyer as our special teams coach to lay down the law when our players make mistakes

[Green19]

1 hour ago, Malfatron said:

Lets hire Urban Meyer as our special teams coach to lay down the law when our players make mistakes

At least we know he lands his kicks.

[craig]

I support Gute/MLF's priority on using roster spots for developmental guys with potential to be useful snaps guys; whether as next-man-up during immediate season or in future seasons following further development.  

As extreme as Sunday's debacle was, other than the Bostic game, how often have we actually lost a game based on ST?  

Gute's approach is not unusual.  Some teams may keep guys for specials.  But not everybody does, without being as ST-bad as the Packers.  My point being that anti-awful does not depend on dedicating roster spots.    

Gute has obviously done an awful job with his ST picks.  JK wasn't consistent; Bradley was bad; and Amari can neither catch nor run.   Lose-lose-lose.  

Alex, agree with your kickoff analysis.  Obviously those stats are league-wide, not Packer-specific, yes?  Agree that decision-making could be situational.  If you're winning by two scores and kinda controlling the game, taking the conservative 25-yard line start instead of of the riskier odds that you can start them back a handful of yards but might start them at the 40 instead, it might sometimes (often?) make sense to take the conservative EZ kick. 

 

[craig]

Teams and fans always talk about how important ST are, and how that can impact back-of-roster spots.  But imagine if you just made a commitment to the NON-importance of ST, other than field-goal kicking?  

• EVERY kickoff, plan to drill it end-zone.  Don't worry about spending roster spots or much practice time on kickoff coverage.  If you can blast it down the middle, and are willing to conservatively allow them to get touchbacks, no need for roster allocation or significant practice time on kickoffs.
• EVERY punt received, default to fair catch.  Have one sure-handed athlete who can get under the fly ball and catch it.  No need for roster allocation or significant practice time for punt-returns, other than the one sure-handed guy.  No block-in-the-back penalties.  Micah Hyde was neither particularly fast, nor quick, and he wasn't kept on roster because of ST.  He was just a good athlete who'd played a lot of baseball outfield, and could confidently run to the ball and catch it, with neither fumble nor letting it bounce unfavorably.  
• Punting would required some practice time and attention.  But if Bojo just really skies them all, it wouldn't take tons of priority to produce mostly 40-yard hang-time fair-catch punts.   
• Field-goals would require practice for sure.  But much of that is the long-snapper/punter-as-holder/kicker anyway, three specialists who you're keeping either way.  So that's not burning additional roster spots, or taking time away from position-group practice.  
• Kick return:  That too would require some practice.  But yeah, let it go out whenever possible.  And you don't need to burn a roster spot or a draft pick to tell some guy not to run out of bounds like Malik.  
• So basically, I'm saying prioritize roster spots and practice time on making your offense and defense really good, and don't distract many/any additional spots or much developmental practice time towards ST.  

[ThatJerkDave]

@craig, I am with you.  I just want "not bad" from the specials.  

[Refugee]

2 hours ago, craig said:

I support Gute/MLF's priority on using roster spots for developmental guys with potential to be useful snaps guys; whether as next-man-up during immediate season or in future seasons following further development.  

As extreme as Sunday's debacle was, other than the Bostic game, how often have we actually lost a game based on ST?  

Gute's approach is not unusual.  Some teams may keep guys for specials.  But not everybody does, without being as ST-bad as the Packers.  My point being that anti-awful does not depend on dedicating roster spots.    

Gute has obviously done an awful job with his ST picks.  JK wasn't consistent; Bradley was bad; and Amari can neither catch nor run.   Lose-lose-lose.  

Alex, agree with your kickoff analysis.  Obviously those stats are league-wide, not Packer-specific, yes?  Agree that decision-making could be situational.  If you're winning by two scores and kinda controlling the game, taking the conservative 25-yard line start instead of of the riskier odds that you can start them back a handful of yards but might start them at the 40 instead, it might sometimes (often?) make sense to take the conservative EZ kick. 

 

You could make the case we dropped that KC game because of specials.  If we had to lose one, that was it with an AFC opponent and QB2(also could make the case Rodgers’ boneheadedness cost us that one) but if we had that W, we’d be in great shape for the 1 seed right now. Winning out is no small task and we are going to have to do it with a thin Oline amongst other injuries. 
 

We just need a ST that is not a liability and we haven’t had that for a long while. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Refugee

[Sasquatch]

I’m kinda in awe that at the professional level, we see botched snaps, muffed kick and punt returns for any team, not just the Packers.  I went an entire season watching my high school team execute ST fundamentals better than GB.

[R T]

4 hours ago, craig said:

Teams and fans always talk about how important ST are, and how that can impact back-of-roster spots.  But imagine if you just made a commitment to the NON-importance of ST, other than field-goal kicking?  

• EVERY kickoff, plan to drill it end-zone.  Don't worry about spending roster spots or much practice time on kickoff coverage.  If you can blast it down the middle, and are willing to conservatively allow them to get touchbacks, no need for roster allocation or significant practice time on kickoffs.
• EVERY punt received, default to fair catch.  Have one sure-handed athlete who can get under the fly ball and catch it.  No need for roster allocation or significant practice time for punt-returns, other than the one sure-handed guy.  No block-in-the-back penalties.  Micah Hyde was neither particularly fast, nor quick, and he wasn't kept on roster because of ST.  He was just a good athlete who'd played a lot of baseball outfield, and could confidently run to the ball and catch it, with neither fumble nor letting it bounce unfavorably.  
• Punting would required some practice time and attention.  But if Bojo just really skies them all, it wouldn't take tons of priority to produce mostly 40-yard hang-time fair-catch punts.   
• Field-goals would require practice for sure.  But much of that is the long-snapper/punter-as-holder/kicker anyway, three specialists who you're keeping either way.  So that's not burning additional roster spots, or taking time away from position-group practice.  
• Kick return:  That too would require some practice.  But yeah, let it go out whenever possible.  And you don't need to burn a roster spot or a draft pick to tell some guy not to run out of bounds like Malik.  
• So basically, I'm saying prioritize roster spots and practice time on making your offense and defense really good, and don't distract many/any additional spots or much developmental practice time towards ST.  

I can't agree. This is operating based on a fear of failure, it's no way to go through life and it is certainly no way to run a professional football team.  

[craig]

3 minutes ago, R T said:

I can't agree. This is operating based on a fear of failure, it's no way to go through life and it is certainly no way to run a professional football team.  

 I want players 45-49 on the roster for their potential to become excellent football players; I'm fearlessly shooting for ceiling, unafraid of failure!    Burning some of those spots on veteran low-ceiling ST vets is more fear-of-failure, which is not the way to go through life and is not the way to run a team in the National Injury League.  

[R T]

19 minutes ago, craig said:

 I want players 45-49 on the roster for their potential to become excellent football players; I'm fearlessly shooting for ceiling, unafraid of failure!    Burning some of those spots on veteran low-ceiling ST vets is more fear-of-failure, which is not the way to go through life and is not the way to run a team in the National Injury League.  

Kicking every kickoff through the end-zone and fair catching every punt when the metrics say differently is hardly acts of the fearless, craig.

[Sasquatch]

3 minutes ago, R T said:

Kicking every kickoff through the end-zone and fair catching every punt when the metrics say differently is hardly acts of the fearless, craig.

I bet if you ran a regression analysis factoring in the suckage of our ST’s, the analytic metrics would change.  

[craig]

45 minutes ago, R T said:

Kicking every kickoff through the end-zone and fair catching every punt when the metrics say differently is hardly acts of the fearless, craig.

OK.  I guess my obsession, as you know, is just with the roster construction.    The argument I'm tired of, is that GM and coach should be prioritizing ST in roster construction.  Then *if* ST is bad (as is true this season), then blame GM/coach for not having committed roster spots for ST vets.  

My main obsession is to not drive roster spots based on ST, other than the main 3 and maybe one return guy. 

• Build the best offense-defense-potential roster you can. 
• Then worry about ST and do the best you can with those guys. 
• If ST ends up being not good, that's the way it goes, and I don't want to hear blaming of that on not keeping ST guys.  
• Sure, as a tiebreaker, if two guys are otherwise equal but one projects better for ST, fine, keep him. 
• But don't weaken the offense or defense, for now or future, in order to strengthen ST.  It's really not that important.  

[Sasquatch]

Interesting stat:

Crosby's touchback rate:
2021: 43.5%
2020: 50%
2019: 56.8%

[mikebpackfan]

15 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Interesting stat:

Crosby's touchback rate:
2021: 43.5%
2020: 50%
2019: 56.8%

Did we change tees this year, too?

[R T]

9 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Interesting stat:

Crosby's touchback rate:
2021: 43.5%
2020: 50%
2019: 56.8%

Interesting stat:

Crosby's KO Average:

2021: 64.2

2020: 63.9

2019: 63.7                                                                                                                                                          

Edited December 19, 2021 by R T