thrILL! Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 9 hours ago, pacman5252 said: I'm still holding out hope on Love, but it doesn't look good. LoL wut? Based off of what exactly? Rumors and hearsay of him supposedly looking underwhelming in practices that the media wasn't even allowed to attend? We have no idea what progress he has or hasn't made yet. We're all hoping to get a good look at his play if there's preseason next season but even that won't be the control to gauge his development. Rodgers didn't exactly set the preseason on fire himself in his first couple seasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, CWood21 said: I'm not sure anyone is suggesting that giving Gute a "pass" for this year's draft class. Could he have drafted a class that was a bit more ready to produce? Sure. But you're also talking about a draft class that we could be talking very differently a year or two down the road. Right now, Gute has drafted 2 likely starters next year in AJ Dillon and Kamal Martin. Jordan Love is the QBOTF, so he won't play until Rodgers is gone. And even Josiah Deguara looked really good before he tore his ACL. Hell, even Jon Runyan looked solid when he played. This whole draft class is going to be judged by Love. Yawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 32 minutes ago, cannondale said: Yawn When did draft classes start being graded on rookie production? Am I on drugs? I thought this board had mastered this concept? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 34 minutes ago, cannondale said: Yawn Some just never get it; cancel culture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: When did draft classes start being graded on rookie production? Am I on drugs? I thought this board had mastered this concept? About 3 or 4 years ago or so. There was a tipping point when the discussions started about offenses and defenses changing to be more player friendly and allowing guys to come in and contribute right away. And you know this. How many more of these windows do you think we have left ? Infinite ? Edited February 23, 2021 by cannondale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, MantyWrestler said: I’m not even sure what he’s arguing anymore. He wanted Gute to do more but what exactly he doesn’t say. If Dillion puts up Lacy like numbers without the weight issues, that’s a great pick. Martin looks like a very good pick where we took him. Degura looked good out of the gates and may have made a difference for us if he hadn’t gotten hurt. I’d Love turns out to be an above average QB, that’s a good pick. What did he want in place of those guys? I would like him to be specific. Fix the defense. Period I think Dillon and Degura are bad value. I'm talking about team building here. That's my issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, cannondale said: About 3 or 4 years ago or so. There was a tipping point when the discussions started about offenses and defenses changing to be more player friendly and allowing guys to come in and contribute right away. And you know this. How many more of these windows do you think we have left ? Infinite ? 8 minutes ago, cannondale said: Fix the defense. Period I think Dillon and Degura are bad value. I'm talking about team building here. That's my issue. I keep checking this thread and I don’t know why. The window we have open right now is literally because of the GM people are bitching about. Roster construction is the least of this team’s problems moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Well...at least we didn't draft this slug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, deathstar said: I keep checking this thread and I don’t know why. The window we have open right now is literally because of the GM people are bitching about. Roster construction is the least of this team’s problems moving forward. I gotta disagree. The window we have open right now is literally because of Aaron Rodgers. And I guess if you boil down my ramblings, roster construction is my main problem. Every year we talk about the defense and yet it never gets fixed. From not taking a DL in the strongest DL draft in history, to taking an H-Back and RB last year. These are mistakes IMO. And if you do go offense an OT might have been nice. And then there's the Love pick, which I am willing to cut a little slack. Barely Edited February 23, 2021 by cannondale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brat&Beer Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, packfanfb said: Well...at least we didn't draft this slug. Deleted tweet a few minutes later. Or maybe his agent did. Quote He played only four snaps during a lost rookie season that included a DUI arrest, a suspension for violating team rules, two stints on the COVID-19 reserve list and a season-ending move to the non-football illness list to work on personal issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, cannondale said: I gotta disagree. The window we have open right now is literally because of Aaron Rodgers. And I guess if you boil down my ramblings, roster construction is my main problem. Every year we talk about the defense and yet it never gets fixed. From not taking a DL in the strongest DL draft in history, to taking an H-Back and RB last year. These are mistakes IMO. And then theres the Love pick, which I am willing to cut a little slack. Barely Of course it is. The amount he gets paid dictates how the Packers roster is set up. If the Packers QB was cheap and far less talented, the whole roster setup would be different, constructed to win a different way. The 2020 draft picks are most certainly not mistakes..........yet. Maybe they turn out that way, maybe they don't. You know it takes time to assess a draft class as well as anyone. Whining about the 2020 picks this soon is just venting. All you need to do is wait another year and you may have a better idea if you are right. We CAN say the 2018 draft didn't offer much besides Alexander, but 2020.........too soon. There is a monstrously huge amount of time the GM , scouts and coaches devote to the draft in any year, so you can bet a huge amount of thought went into what they DID do. They do this despite it being all too easy, even after all their analysis, to choose the wrong players, however hard they all work to avoid it like, say, an Isiah Wilson - 29th overall pick......now him you can probably call a mistake already, but that is unusual. As for not taking a DL, who would you have picked ? The first DL after the Love pick was Gross-Matos, 12 picks later. A little too light at 265lbs for a 3-4 DE (24 tackles , 2.5 sacks on the season) and a little short for that position at 6'3". Two picks after that it was NT Ross Blacklock who had the size at 290 but was also 6'3" and had 14 tackles no sacks on the season. How about Marlon Davidson (47th pick) - he racked up 8 tackles. Darrell Taylor (too light for a 3-4 DE, no stats) was 48th. At 56th was Raekwon Davis, who had all the size you need and racked up 40 tackles but no sacks. Justin Madubuike (71st) accumulated 19 tackles and 1 sack. DaVon Hamilton (73rd) got 30 tackles and 1 sack, a decent effort. Jabari Zuniga (79th) 5 tackles. Using your own method of evaluating a guy after the rookie season, the above list does not have a single standout 5 tech sack artist. You are not allowed to project how any of these guys do in year 2, because you never gave that chance to the guys the Packers did choose. Raekwon Davis probably had the best rookie season, he could have been better than Lowry, but playing at DE in Miami, he had no sacks. Hamilton could have been the best value, at pick 71 he was available with the Packers 2nd rounder............but then there is no succession plan for life after Aaron Jones. If a DL was taken in the first round, then the Packers lose their plan for succession at QB...........and it is very, very difficult to plan a QB succession when you are picking so late in the draft. I'll add one more thing, the draft is about value, either where you sit and pick, or where you manoeuvre to pick. Who is to say the Pack don't get a DL being there for them in round 1 or 2, this year. Just because it isn't a good year for them, doesn't mean one can't fall just right for their pick. Edited February 23, 2021 by OneTwoSixFive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, cannondale said: I gotta disagree. The window we have open right now is literally because of Aaron Rodgers. And I guess if you boil down my ramblings, roster construction is my main problem. Every year we talk about the defense and yet it never gets fixed. From not taking a DL in the strongest DL draft in history, to taking an H-Back and RB last year. These are mistakes IMO. And if you do go offense an OT might have been nice. And then there's the Love pick, which I am willing to cut a little slack. Barely ... so you’re looking at these past two seasons and thinking the QB is why we are 13-3. Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said: Of course it is. The amount he gets paid dictates how the Packer roster is set up. If the Packers QB was cheap and far less talented, the whole roster setup would be different, constructed to win a different way. The draft picks are most certainly not mistakes..........yet. Maybe they turn out that way, maybe they don't. You know it takes time to assess a draft class as well as anyone. Whining about the 2020 picks this soon is just venting. All you need to do is wait another year and you may have a better idea if you are right. We CAN say the 2018 draft didn't offer much besides Alexander, but 2020.........too soon. There is a monstrously huge amount of time the GM , scouts and coaches devote to the draft in any year, so you can bet a huge amount of thought went into what they DID do. They do this despite it being all too easy, even after all their analysis, to choose the wrong players, however hard they all work to avoid it. As for not taking a DL, who would you have picked ? The first DL after the Love pick was Gross-Matos, 12 picks later. A little too light at 265lbs for a 3-4 DE (24 tackles , 2.5 sacks on the season) and a little short for that position at 6'3". Two picks after that it was NT Ross Blacklock who had the size at 290 but was also 6'3" and had 14 tackles no sacks on the season. How about Marlon Davidson (47th pick) - he racked up 8 tackles. Darrell Taylor (too light for a 3-4 DE, no stats) was 48th. At 56th was Raekwon Davis, who had all the size you need and racked up 40 tackles but no sacks. Justin Madubuike (71st) accumulated 19 tackles and 1 sack. DaVon Hamilton (73rd) got 30 tackles and 1 sack, a decent effort. Jabari Zuniga (79th) 5 tackles. Using your own method of evaluating a guy after the rookie season, the above list does not have a single standout 5 tech sack artist. You are not allowed to project how any of these guys do in year 2, because you never gave that chance to the guys the Packers did choose. Raekwon Davis probably had the best rookie season, he could have been better than Lowry, but playing at DE in Miami, he had no sacks. Hamilton could have been the best value, at pick 71 he was available with the Packers 2nd rounder............but then there is no succession plan for life after Aaron Jones. If a DL was taken in the first round, then the Packers lose their plan for succession at QB...........and it is very, very difficult to plan a QB succession when you are picking so late in the draft.. 1. The DL draft I speak of is 2019. Gute signed Smith and Smith, Mike Daniels was out the door and we rolled with Lowry and Lancaster. The ILB have been below average since forever 2. When I speak of mistakes - I mean value. RB and H-back with premium picks ? This is not new thinking. Every year around draft time it's talked about. And I have asked every person that has disagreed to give me the last RB to lead a team to a Super Bowl and I never get a response. No surprise as there hasn't been one since forever. Grab one off the scrap heap if worse comes to worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, deathstar said: ... so you’re looking at these past two seasons and thinking the QB is why we are 13-3. Wow. You think it's J.K Scott ? Of course it's because of 12. You know --- the current MVP of the whole damn league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 You are asking the wrong question. The run sets up the pass, the pass sets up the run, it's a team game. Instead of looking for a RB who wins with a solo effort, look to how a good one impacts the whole team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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