Raiders sign DL Solomon Thomas (1 year, $5M)

[Jeremy408]

6 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

This was my thinking and I also preferred taking Kinlaw instead of Ruggs.  I think Kinlaw is going to play at a high level this year.  He will probably not end up as good as Buckner, although it is a possibility, but Kinlaw plus $68 million in cap space over 4 years is a good deal.  Kinlaw just needs to be an above average 3T.  Anything on top of that makes it a win.

I definitely wouldn’t have(especially with all they have invested on the defense of line already and the fact that they traded Buckner instead of paying him and letting Armstead walk). That’s honestly one of their biggest issues right now is that they’re realizing you can’t just replace a Buckner type of DT. I thought if there was any player on that team that they couldn’t get rid of if they wanted to go on another playoff run, it was him.

[Frankie2Gunz]

44 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

You must’ve missed what I put on the second response: “here’s what I’ll say(that way there’s no confusion): outside of the Super Bowl run and the fact that the Niners have an exponentially better defense(for the reasons I’ve already explained about seven times now) there’s not a huge difference between the Mayock/Gruden era and the John lynch/Kyle shannahan era”

Lol outside of that?  That's a big outside.  What I would pay for a SB run and an exceptional D. 

The only position we currently have a clear advantage at is QB which has nothing to do with Gruden or Mayock.  You can't be serious with this nonsense if you think the 9ers and Raiders are in the same universe in terms of talent.  Hence the SB odds for the 49ers (5th overall) at +1200 and the Raiders (28th overall) at +10000. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

I definitely wouldn’t have(especially with all they have invested on the defense of line already and the fact that they traded Buckner instead of paying him and letting Armstead walk). That’s honestly one of their biggest issues right now is that they’re realizing you can’t just replace a Buckner type of DT. I thought if there was any player on that team that they couldn’t get rid of if they wanted to go on another playoff run, it was him.

Drafting on players on the lines is very important.  I wanted McGlinchey over Miller but I am not a good judge of o-line players.  I personaly think we should have stayed at 10 and taken Fitzpatrick.  If we traded back to 15 I would have gone with James.  Miller has played great so we got that one correct just to screw up most of the rest.  I think trading Buckner and drafting Kinlaw will work out for them but like most around agree about is that a rookie DT is not going to find a lot of success most of the time.  They just drafted a 3T a year to late for a smooth transition.  As far as the draft my real time choices while the draft was going on was Kinlaw and Jefferson.  I would take them over Ruggs and Arnette every time.  If Ruggs was still there at 19 it would have been a tough decision and I wanted Arnette in the 2nd round.

[Jeremy408]

3 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Lol outside of that?  That's a big outside.  What I would pay for a SB run and an exceptional D. 

The only position we currently have a clear advantage at is QB which has nothing to do with Gruden or Mayock.  You can't be serious with this nonsense if you think the 9ers and Raiders are in the same universe in terms of talent.  

All right let's do a full breakdown of both regimes:

First we'll start with Lynch Shannahan(who inherited Buckner & Armstead):

2017

1st Round pick #3-Solomon Thomas(for all the talk about how bad  Ferrell at #4 over Burns & Allen is how much different is Solomon Thomas at #3 over Mahomes(who went on to beat them in the SB & Watson). Imagine if we did that, would most people on this form be raider fans anymore?

1st Round pick #31-Rueben foster had questionable character that was even mentioned by Nick Saban who was his coach in college and rarely says anything bad about any of his players went out of his way to say he had maturity issues. They draft him and he is now a back up linebacker for Washington fighting for a roster spot after being out of the league for two years. We lose our minds on third round picks miss a year because they get hurt in a year in the off-season but what about when a first round pick is out of the league after the second year

3rd round pick #66-Ahkelio Witherspoon- I thought this was a really good draft pick but is he really better than Trevon Mullen or did he just play with 5 first round picks rushing the passer

Round 3, Pick 104  QB CJ Beathard- Think about this one they went with a quarterback with a third round pick think about if we did that how angry would be. I know I would be pissed. 

Round 4, Pick #121 RB Joe Williams- I bet you never heard of this guy but I remember he got picked over Marlon Mack. didnt play a down 

Round 5, Pick #146  TE George Kittle- AMAZING DRAFT. To be able to get an all pro top five draft pick in the fifth round is dope. But remember signed, Darren Waller off of the practice field. Who is also an elite talent

Round 5, Pick #177 WR Trent Taylor-another guy you may never heard of unless you play fantasy football. Hasn't really done anything(one season with 200 yards in another season them with 400 yards) in the NFL who cares he's a fifth round pick.

Round 6, Pick #198 DL DJ Jones-currently the starting nose tackle I think which is good to get in the 6th round. But again if he really better than Jonathan Hankins are we just raider fans so we look at the two different

Round 6, Pick 202  LB Pita Taumoepenu-another guy that didn't make the roster but again who cares he's a fifth round pick

Round 7, Pick 229 DB Adrian Colbert-back up safety

2018

Round 1, Pick 9  OT Mike McGlinchey-what is touted as the best tackle in the draft but went on to be an average right tackle. Remember he was drafted ahead of Kolton Miller who is now considered one of the better LTs in the Game. 

Round 2, Pick 44 WR Dante Pettis-most yards he's ever had in the season was 467 and right now it's currently not on an NFL roster. The reason why this was overlooked was because they went to the Super Bowl so who cares right?

Round 3, Pick 70  LB Fred Warner-this was a really good pick as we just saw last week that he got paid and has been a pro bowler the last two years

Round 3, Pick 95  DB Tarvarius Moore-he started 13 games in three years(including eight last year). Remember this is a third round pick 

Round 4, Pick 128  DL Kentavius Street-has understandably started 2 games in his 2 years in the league and has no Saks and one tackle for loss. Maurice Hurst will definitely be playing over him.

Round 5, Pick 142 DB DJ Reed-was on the team for two season starting two games before getting cut and going to the Seahawks

Round 6, Pick 184 SS Marcell Harris- back up strong safety

Round 7, Pick 240  WR Richie James- KR specialist 

2019

Round 1, Pick 2  DE Nick Bosa-consider the cant miss prospect of this draft it was added to a team that already had three first round picks on the D line the years prior and trade it for an already established pass rusher and former first round pick in Dee Ford in the same off-season

Round 2, Pick 36  WR Deebo Samuel-.really great gadget player who i personally love. Not really a conventional receiver however. 

Round 3, Pick 67 WR Jalen Hurd-really the same thing as Deebo Samuel is it really been able to see the field because of injury. If that happened on our team we would say he's a bust

Round 4, Pick 110  P Mitch Wishnowsky-don't know how good this punter is but if we drafted a punter in the fourth round people would be losing their mind. 

Round 5, Pick 148  LB Dre Greenlaw-Another good linebacker. Course he had the benefit of playing behind that defensive line that was built before he got there

Round 6, Pick 176  TE Kaden Smith-back up tight end

Round 6, Pick 183  OT Justin Skule-back up tackle

Round 6, Pick 198 CB Tim Harris-back up DB

2020

Round 1, Pick 14 DL Javon Kinlaw-started started 12 games at 1.5 sacks(Maurice hurst & Clelin Ferrell had 4.5 their rookie years)

Round 1, Pick 25 WR Brandon Aiyuk- Had a pretty good Rookie season with 748 yards 6 Tds

Round 5, Pick 153 OL Colton McKivitz-Started 3 years and were part of what was considered a porus Dline. 

Round 6, Pick 190 TE Charlie Woerner-Another Backup TE 

Round 7, Pick 217 WR Jauan Jennings-backup wr 

 

Ok now lets look at the gruden/mayock Era 

2019

Round 1, Pick No. 4: Clelin Ferrell-never will live up to the #4 draft pick. Hasn't gotten to the quarterback enough. Could've drafted Josh Allen and Brian Burns IMO. Compare to Solomon Thomas at #3 over Mahomes and Watson( 

Round 1, Pick No. 24: Josh Jacobs-1100 yards and 7 tds his rookie year despite only playing 13 games. Last year regressed in yards per carry but in TDs with 12 

Round 1, Pick No. 27: Johnathan Abram-has played last year like one of if not the dumbest Player I've ever seen next to Mark Sanchez. That said last year was essentially his rookie year. And regardless of what anybody says(including myself) jury is still out on him as last year was essentially his rookie year. Compare to Reuben Foster who is no longer in the league. 

Round 2, Pick No. 40: Trayvon Mullen-Good corner that needs to learn how to play consistent. Had a really good rookie year followed by a not as good second year. 

Round 4, Pick No. 106: Maxx Crosby, Edge, Eastern Michigan-Instant starter is a rookie at defensive end who had 10 sacks his rookie season(.5 more than Bosa, and 2.5 more than Brian Burns) before regressing to seven sacks. Compare to CJ Beathard who is taking in the third round. 

Round 4, Pick No. 129: Isaiah Johnson-broke his face his Rookie year. Hasnt really seen the field. Compared to CJ Beathard who was taken in the third round

Round 4, Pick No. 137: Foster Moreau-really good complementary/Back up TE who had 5 Tds his rookie year before he Tore his ACL the end of his rookie year. Took last year to recover fully. Compare to Joe Williams who never saw the field

Round 5, Pick No. 149: Hunter Renfrow-team starting slot receiver who had back to back 600 yard seasons. Compare to Trent Taylor who had one 200 yards season and won 400 yard season(the equivalent to one of Renfrow seasons)

Round 7, Pick No. 230: Quinton Bell-didn't make the team but he went in the seventh round so who cares

2019

Henry Ruggs, WR, 1st round (No. 12 overall)-Had around 400 yards which is obviously not enough statistically but was a key reason why we won the Jets and Chiefs game as well as being able to close out the Saints game because of a key pass interference. Also brought a Speed element that was not there for three years prior. Compare to Mike McGlinchey. All I'm gonna say about this is which one would you rather have?

Damon Arnette, CB, 1st round (No. 19 overall)- played in only full games because of injuries and apart from moments struggled all season. Like Abrams, and regardless of what anyone says, the jury is still out on him. 

Lynn Bowden, ATH, 3rd round (No. 80 overall)-Love this pic and was disappointed when they traded him before the season started which pissed me off. Compare to Dante Pettis he was drafted a round higher, did nothing and is not on anyone's roster rn. 

Bryan Edwards, WR, 3rd round (No. 81 overall)-Was injured for most of the season when he came back wasn't really a part of the offense. Jury is still out on him. Compare to Dante Pettis 

Tanner Muse, LB/S, 3rd round (No. 100 overall)-was put IR before the season started. The jury is still out on him. Compare to fred Warner who went off and is currently one of the best linebackers in the league. 

John Simpson, G, 4th round (No. 109 overall)- back up guard who is going to replace Richie incognito eventually. compare to Tavarius moore who has mainly been a back up thus far 

Amik Robertson, CB, 4th round (No. 129 overall)-undersized throw dart throw who was drafted in the 4th round. I personally think Nate Hobbs is going to push him into the roster mobile but the jury is still out on him also. Compare to kendal street who hasn't seen the field either is basically in the same boat.

How about free agents 

Lets start with the niners

2017

Brian Hoyer 6 mil per year-

Pierre garçon 9.5 mil a year-Had seasons for the Niners of 500 and 200 yards. 

Robbie Gould-it's a kicker so who cares

Marquise Goodwin 3mil per year-this was actually a good sign he went for almost 1000 yards his first year but then came down to earth for 395 and 186. Then again we signed nelson Aguilar for 1 million and he did the same thing. 

Malcolm Smith-5 mil per year -he came from our team so we know how good Malcolm Smith is in a full-time role. ended up getting hurt

Kyle Juszczyk-5.3 mil per year-we would lose our minds if we played a FB 5mil a year. When the Niners do it it's because they're a wise organization. 

They traded a second round pick for Jimmy Garoppolo who we know what they think of him now that they drafted trey the Bay lol

2018

Weston Richburg for 9.5 mil a yr- is a starting guard but at 9.5 is it worth it? You tell me

Jerick McKinnon for 9 mil a year- Hasn't seen the field really the last three years because of injuries(remember we signed Kenyan Drake this off-season and everybody lost their stuff. LOL. Why does nobody care about this. Oh I know because when your team has a Super Bowl run you forget about everything you've done wrong

Jeff Locke- punter. who cares

Richard Sherman for 13 mil a year-regardless of what I think about the fact that he's not go without a pass rush(which was evidenced every year on the Niners except for the 2019 year all of a sudden he was back on the radar) was actually a very good signing not only on the field but off the field in terms of leadership and how to study film and so on. 

Kwon Alexander for 13.5 mil per year-a good linebacker who is injury prone that was paid like a top-five linebacker with a clean bill of health. Missed most of the 2019 season(although nobody cared because they went to the Super Bowl) then when he got hurt the next year all of a sudden it mattered so they traded him. If he was on the Raiders we would call that a bust. 

Tevin Coleman for 4 mil a year-rotational running back in an obvious Shanahan scheme fit. 544 rushing yards 

2019

Traded Dee ford for 2nd round pick and paid him 17.4 mil per year- in 2019 had 6.5 sacks contributing to the pass rush machine. in 2020 he played 1 game before missing the whole season. 

Jason Verrett- What is a steal in my book. This is actually my favorite niner signing. Are used to kill us when he was on the chargers before getting hurt. \Really play in 2019 before finally getting healthy in 2020 and contributing despite the defense regressing. Really good find. 

2020

Literally no one contributed. Besides Travis Benjamin you probably don't even know anyone on that list lol

Just one notable thing was that they resigned armstead and traded Buckner for a first round pick that they then used as to draft another defensive lineman

How about the raiders:

Tyrell Williams 11 mill per year-651 yards not much of a step up from Garson who got paid 9.5 million

Trent Brown for 16 Mil per yer-was one of if not the best right tackle in the NFL when he played but I only played 16 games in two seasons. 

LaMarcus Joyner for 10.5 mil-one of the best safeties in the league when we signed them only for us to stupidly put him at slot corner stubbornly. 

Jonathan Hankins-one of the best brand stuffing defensive tackles in the NFL. 

Vontez Burfict-actually was giving good linebacker play before the stupid hit they got him suspended for the rest of the season. We didn't pay him anything but we also should've expected that. Least we didn't draft him in the first round.

Nevin Lawson-decent start a corner I isnt getting paid much. Was often used as an outside corner which is why he's often looked at more negatively

Dwayne Harris-kr who cares

Denzel good-clutch signing at guard with all the injuries we had and he's basically been a starter the last two years. And he is cost effective. Member the Niners paid a guard 9.5 million. 

Benson Mayowa for 4 mil-gave a 7 sacks. Very good as a rotational pass rusher when we had him. The issue was letting him go

Ritchie incognito for 2 mil per year-was a pro bowl guard and 2019 missed the whole season in 2020. The Niners have made the same signing their geniuses

Result of the year we decided to start Darren Waller which a lot of people on this forum thought didn't make any sense. Wonder how they feel now. Elite top 3 TE in the NFL. 

2020

Demerius Randall for 2 mil-ended up getting cut out of camp which I thought was a mistake. I ended up with Erik Harris for the year enough said

Jeff heath 2 mil- made plays when he was on the field but then got hurt and missed the rest of the season. 

Nelson Agholor for 1 mil-almost had 1000 yards. 

Malik Collins for 4 mil a year-injured his knee in training camp tried to play on it and ended up with no sacks.

Jason Witten for 4 mil-assigning most people don't understand. Tutored Darren Waller to breaking Tim Brown's record and served as the complementary tight and fill in for foster moreau as got all the way right. 

Carl Nassib for 9 mil-this is the worst signing in the gruden mayock era. Over paid as a third defensive and he only had 2.5 sacks and a random interception. Than again dee ford 6.5 sacks for 17.5 per year. Similar ratio lol

Cory Littleton for 13 mil per year- Had an abysmal season in a scheme fit. jury is still out on him. I guess we can compare him to Kwon Alexander. 

Nick kwik 7.5 mil per year-Solid linebacker signing, I had no problems with him other than he got injured a little too much for my taste. 

Marcus Mariota 10 mil-An overpaid backup but also easily the best back up in the nfl. I would done that over using 3 round pick or signing an OK back up for 6 million. Then there's the fact that we restructure the contract to 3 million so who cares.

We traded a third round pick for Antonio Brown who remember what's the best receiver in the NFL before he lost his mind. In an attempt to give Derek Carr more weapons I would've done that 1000 times

How about records?

Lets look at the niners 

2017-6-10

2018-4-12

Or even get into 2019 & 2020 if these were the Gruden Mayock errors first two records we would say they're idiots(like you do now). But this is the Shanahan lynch era 49ers so we're gonna ignore this because the ends justify the means apparently. I guess when you have a 13-3 record then all of a sudden Garappolo is some how better than Carr.

2019-13-3

2020-6-10

now the raiders 

2019-7-9

2020-8-8

That's it and we're losing our minds. Those to the records that were losing our minds over in the gruden/mayock era. Please go back and look at the Shanahan Lynch Era's first two years. And tell me they were that much better. 

How about defensive and offensive rankings 

2017: offense 12th; defense: 25th ppg

2018: offense 16th; defense: 28th ppg

2019: offense 4th; defense: 8th ppg

2020: offense 15th; defense: 1th ppg

Raiders? 

2019: offense 11th; defense: 24th ppg

2020: offense 8th; defense: 30th ppg

So tell me: does the Super Bowl run cover how bad they were every other year?

Edited August 1, 2021 by Jeremy408

[Jeremy408]

2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Drafting on players on the lines is very important.  I wanted McGlinchey over Miller but I am not a good judge of o-line players.  I personaly think we should have stayed at 10 and taken Fitzpatrick.  If we traded back to 15 I would have gone with James.  Miller has played great so we got that one correct just to screw up most of the rest.  I think trading Buckner and drafting Kinlaw will work out for them but like most around agree about is that a rookie DT is not going to find a lot of success most of the time.  They just drafted a 3T a year to late for a smooth transition.  As far as the draft my real time choices while the draft was going on was Kinlaw and Jefferson.  I would take them over Ruggs and Arnette every time.  If Ruggs was still there at 19 it would have been a tough decision and I wanted Arnette in the 2nd round.

1. I can honestly say that I wanted Derwin James(I'm a Florida State/USC fan).

2. I don't think you can just replace someone like deforest Buckner. Is extremely hard to find a dominant defensive tackle in the draft. They put it this way: I was all for the Mack trade but if it was Buckner I would've never traded him. It's easier to find the edge rusher then to find top 3 tech

3. I liked Jefferson but will admit that I didn't think he was going to be a good outside receiver. I thought he was going to be a lot like Michael Thomas which didn't need. That being said I would've taken rugs and Arnette over Kinlaw and Jefferson But of course only time will tell. 

[drfrey13]

9 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

2. I don't think you can just replace someone like deforest Buckner. Is extremely hard to find a dominant defensive tackle in the draft. They put it this way: I was all for the Mack trade but if it was Buckner I would've never traded him. It's easier to find the edge rusher then to find top 3 tech

I stated earlier I do not think Kinlaw will be as good as Buckner but Kinlaw combined with $60+ million in cap space over the 4 years makes it a good trade for the 49ers.  Kinlaw needs to develop into an above average 3T and both sides win.  Same thing with our Mack trade.  Could have easily been a win/win trade but we screwed the picks and the cap.  Jacobs is a good player but he was over drafted in the 1st round.  People can say what they want about Mayock going after his guy but in the end they need to produce relative to their draft position or you are not good at your job.  If Ferrell is your guy but is the 12th best player in the draft you are wasting what amounts to a late 1st round pick.  The same way we take a player that should be making $3 million and we offer $5 to make sure they sign with us.  Its only $2 million but that builds up quickly.  Gruden does not care because he only focuses one year at a time and Mayock is to green and just follows Gruden.   This is why we are seeing so many reaches in the draft and bad contracts.

[Frankie2Gunz]

9 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

All right let's do a full breakdown of both regimes:

First we'll start with Lynch Shannahan(who inherited Buckner & Armstead):

2017

1st Round pick #3-Solomon Thomas(for all the talk about how bad  Ferrell at #4 over Burns & Allen is how much different is Solomon Thomas at #3 over Mahomes(who went on to beat them in the SB & Watson). Imagine if we did that, would most people on this form be raider fans anymore?

1st Round pick #31-Rueben foster had questionable character that was even mentioned by Nick Saban who was his coach in college and rarely says anything bad about any of his players went out of his way to say he had maturity issues. They draft him and he is now a back up linebacker for Washington fighting for a roster spot after being out of the league for two years. We lose our minds on third round picks miss a year because they get hurt in a year in the off-season but what about when a first round pick is out of the league after the second year

3rd round pick #66-Ahkelio Witherspoon- I thought this was a really good draft pick but is he really better than Trevon Mullen or did he just play with 5 first round picks rushing the passer

Round 3, Pick 104  QB CJ Beathard- Think about this one they went with a quarterback with a third round pick think about if we did that how angry would be. I know I would be pissed. 

Round 4, Pick #121 RB Joe Williams- I bet you never heard of this guy but I remember he got picked over Marlon Mack. didnt play a down 

Round 5, Pick #146  TE George Kittle- AMAZING DRAFT. To be able to get an all pro top five draft pick in the fifth round is dope. But remember signed, Darren Waller off of the practice field. Who is also an elite talent

Round 5, Pick #177 WR Trent Taylor-another guy you may never heard of unless you play fantasy football. Hasn't really done anything(one season with 200 yards in another season them with 400 yards) in the NFL who cares he's a fifth round pick.

Round 6, Pick #198 DL DJ Jones-currently the starting nose tackle I think which is good to get in the 6th round. But again if he really better than Jonathan Hankins are we just raider fans so we look at the two different

Round 6, Pick 202  LB Pita Taumoepenu-another guy that didn't make the roster but again who cares he's a fifth round pick

Round 7, Pick 229 DB Adrian Colbert-back up safety

2018

Round 1, Pick 9  OT Mike McGlinchey-what is touted as the best tackle in the draft but went on to be an average right tackle. Remember he was drafted ahead of Kolton Miller who is now considered one of the better LTs in the Game. 

Round 2, Pick 44 WR Dante Pettis-most yards he's ever had in the season was 467 and right now it's currently not on an NFL roster. The reason why this was overlooked was because they went to the Super Bowl so who cares right?

Round 3, Pick 70  LB Fred Warner-this was a really good pick as we just saw last week that he got paid and has been a pro bowler the last two years

Round 3, Pick 95  DB Tarvarius Moore-he started 13 games in three years(including eight last year). Remember this is a third round pick 

Round 4, Pick 128  DL Kentavius Street-has understandably started 2 games in his 2 years in the league and has no Saks and one tackle for loss. Maurice Hurst will definitely be playing over him.

Round 5, Pick 142 DB DJ Reed-was on the team for two season starting two games before getting cut and going to the Seahawks

Round 6, Pick 184 SS Marcell Harris- back up strong safety

Round 7, Pick 240  WR Richie James- KR specialist 

2019

Round 1, Pick 2  DE Nick Bosa-consider the cant miss prospect of this draft it was added to a team that already had three first round picks on the D line the years prior and trade it for an already established pass rusher and former first round pick in Dee Ford in the same off-season

Round 2, Pick 36  WR Deebo Samuel-.really great gadget player who i personally love. Not really a conventional receiver however. 

Round 3, Pick 67 WR Jalen Hurd-really the same thing as Deebo Samuel is it really been able to see the field because of injury. If that happened on our team we would say he's a bust

Round 4, Pick 110  P Mitch Wishnowsky-don't know how good this punter is but if we drafted a punter in the fourth round people would be losing their mind. 

Round 5, Pick 148  LB Dre Greenlaw-Another good linebacker. Course he had the benefit of playing behind that defensive line that was built before he got there

Round 6, Pick 176  TE Kaden Smith-back up tight end

Round 6, Pick 183  OT Justin Skule-back up tackle

Round 6, Pick 198 CB Tim Harris-back up DB

2020

Round 1, Pick 14 DL Javon Kinlaw-started started 12 games at 1.5 sacks(Maurice hurst & Clelin Ferrell had 4.5 their rookie years)

Round 1, Pick 25 WR Brandon Aiyuk- Had a pretty good Rookie season with 748 yards 6 Tds

Round 5, Pick 153 OL Colton McKivitz-Started 3 years and were part of what was considered a porus Dline. 

Round 6, Pick 190 TE Charlie Woerner-Another Backup TE 

Round 7, Pick 217 WR Jauan Jennings-backup wr 

 

Ok now lets look at the gruden/mayock Era 

2019

Round 1, Pick No. 4: Clelin Ferrell-never will live up to the #4 draft pick. Hasn't gotten to the quarterback enough. Could've drafted Josh Allen and Brian Burns IMO. Compare to Solomon Thomas at #3 over Mahomes and Watson( 

Round 1, Pick No. 24: Josh Jacobs-1100 yards and 7 tds his rookie year despite only playing 13 games. Last year regressed in yards per carry but in TDs with 12 

Round 1, Pick No. 27: Johnathan Abram-has played last year like one of if not the dumbest Player I've ever seen next to Mark Sanchez. That said last year was essentially his rookie year. And regardless of what anybody says(including myself) jury is still out on him as last year was essentially his rookie year. Compare to Reuben Foster who is no longer in the league. 

Round 2, Pick No. 40: Trayvon Mullen-Good corner that needs to learn how to play consistent. Had a really good rookie year followed by a not as good second year. 

Round 4, Pick No. 106: Maxx Crosby, Edge, Eastern Michigan-Instant starter is a rookie at defensive end who had 10 sacks his rookie season(.5 more than Bosa, and 2.5 more than Brian Burns) before regressing to seven sacks. Compare to CJ Beathard who is taking in the third round. 

Round 4, Pick No. 129: Isaiah Johnson-broke his face his Rookie year. Hasnt really seen the field. Compared to CJ Beathard who was taken in the third round

Round 4, Pick No. 137: Foster Moreau-really good complementary/Back up TE who had 5 Tds his rookie year before he Tore his ACL the end of his rookie year. Took last year to recover fully. Compare to Joe Williams who never saw the field

Round 5, Pick No. 149: Hunter Renfrow-team starting slot receiver who had back to back 600 yard seasons. Compare to Trent Taylor who had one 200 yards season and won 400 yard season(the equivalent to one of Renfrow seasons)

Round 7, Pick No. 230: Quinton Bell-didn't make the team but he went in the seventh round so who cares

2019

Henry Ruggs, WR, 1st round (No. 12 overall)-Had around 400 yards which is obviously not enough statistically but was a key reason why we won the Jets and Chiefs game as well as being able to close out the Saints game because of a key pass interference. Also brought a Speed element that was not there for three years prior. Compare to Mike McGlinchey. All I'm gonna say about this is which one would you rather have?

Damon Arnette, CB, 1st round (No. 19 overall)- played in only full games because of injuries and apart from moments struggled all season. Like Abrams, and regardless of what anyone says, the jury is still out on him. 

Lynn Bowden, ATH, 3rd round (No. 80 overall)-Love this pic and was disappointed when they traded him before the season started which pissed me off. Compare to Dante Pettis he was drafted a round higher, did nothing and is not on anyone's roster rn. 

Bryan Edwards, WR, 3rd round (No. 81 overall)-Was injured for most of the season when he came back wasn't really a part of the offense. Jury is still out on him. Compare to Dante Pettis 

Tanner Muse, LB/S, 3rd round (No. 100 overall)-was put IR before the season started. The jury is still out on him. Compare to fred Warner who went off and is currently one of the best linebackers in the league. 

John Simpson, G, 4th round (No. 109 overall)- back up guard who is going to replace Richie incognito eventually. compare to Tavarius moore who has mainly been a back up thus far 

Amik Robertson, CB, 4th round (No. 129 overall)-undersized throw dart throw who was drafted in the 4th round. I personally think Nate Hobbs is going to push him into the roster mobile but the jury is still out on him also. Compare to kendal street who hasn't seen the field either is basically in the same boat.

How about free agents 

Lets start with the niners

2017

Brian Hoyer 6 mil per year-

Pierre garçon 9.5 mil a year-Had seasons for the Niners of 500 and 200 yards. 

Robbie Gould-it's a kicker so who cares

Marquise Goodwin 3mil per year-this was actually a good sign he went for almost 1000 yards his first year but then came down to earth for 395 and 186. Then again we signed nelson Aguilar for 1 million and he did the same thing. 

Malcolm Smith-5 mil per year -he came from our team so we know how good Malcolm Smith is in a full-time role. ended up getting hurt

Kyle Juszczyk-5.3 mil per year-we would lose our minds if we played a FB 5mil a year. When the Niners do it it's because they're a wise organization. 

They traded a second round pick for Jimmy Garoppolo who we know what they think of him now that they drafted trey the Bay lol

2018

Weston Richburg for 9.5 mil a yr- is a starting guard but at 9.5 is it worth it? You tell me

Jerick McKinnon for 9 mil a year- Hasn't seen the field really the last three years because of injuries(remember we signed Kenyan Drake this off-season and everybody lost their stuff. LOL. Why does nobody care about this. Oh I know because when your team has a Super Bowl run you forget about everything you've done wrong

Jeff Locke- punter. who cares

Richard Sherman for 13 mil a year-regardless of what I think about the fact that he's not go without a pass rush(which was evidenced every year on the Niners except for the 2019 year all of a sudden he was back on the radar) was actually a very good signing not only on the field but off the field in terms of leadership and how to study film and so on. 

Kwon Alexander for 13.5 mil per year-a good linebacker who is injury prone that was paid like a top-five linebacker with a clean bill of health. Missed most of the 2019 season(although nobody cared because they went to the Super Bowl) then when he got hurt the next year all of a sudden it mattered so they traded him. If he was on the Raiders we would call that a bust. 

Tevin Coleman for 4 mil a year-rotational running back in an obvious Shanahan scheme fit. 544 rushing yards 

2019

Traded Dee ford for 2nd round pick and paid him 17.4 mil per year- in 2019 had 6.5 sacks contributing to the pass rush machine. in 2020 he played 1 game before missing the whole season. 

Jason Verrett- What is a steal in my book. This is actually my favorite niner signing. Are used to kill us when he was on the chargers before getting hurt. \Really play in 2019 before finally getting healthy in 2020 and contributing despite the defense regressing. Really good find. 

2020

Literally no one contributed. Besides Travis Benjamin you probably don't even know anyone on that list lol

Just one notable thing was that they resigned armstead and traded Buckner for a first round pick that they then used as to draft another defensive lineman

How about the raiders:

Tyrell Williams 11 mill per year-651 yards not much of a step up from Garson who got paid 9.5 million

Trent Brown for 16 Mil per yer-was one of if not the best right tackle in the NFL when he played but I only played 16 games in two seasons. 

LaMarcus Joyner for 10.5 mil-one of the best safeties in the league when we signed them only for us to stupidly put him at slot corner stubbornly. 

Jonathan Hankins-one of the best brand stuffing defensive tackles in the NFL. 

Vontez Burfict-actually was giving good linebacker play before the stupid hit they got him suspended for the rest of the season. We didn't pay him anything but we also should've expected that. Least we didn't draft him in the first round.

Nevin Lawson-decent start a corner I isnt getting paid much. Was often used as an outside corner which is why he's often looked at more negatively

Dwayne Harris-kr who cares

Denzel good-clutch signing at guard with all the injuries we had and he's basically been a starter the last two years. And he is cost effective. Member the Niners paid a guard 9.5 million. 

Benson Mayowa for 4 mil-gave a 7 sacks. Very good as a rotational pass rusher when we had him. The issue was letting him go

Ritchie incognito for 2 mil per year-was a pro bowl guard and 2019 missed the whole season in 2020. The Niners have made the same signing their geniuses

Result of the year we decided to start Darren Waller which a lot of people on this forum thought didn't make any sense. Wonder how they feel now. Elite top 3 TE in the NFL. 

2020

Demerius Randall for 2 mil-ended up getting cut out of camp which I thought was a mistake. I ended up with Erik Harris for the year enough said

Jeff heath 2 mil- made plays when he was on the field but then got hurt and missed the rest of the season. 

Nelson Agholor for 1 mil-almost had 1000 yards. 

Malik Collins for 4 mil a year-injured his knee in training camp tried to play on it and ended up with no sacks.

Jason Witten for 4 mil-assigning most people don't understand. Tutored Darren Waller to breaking Tim Brown's record and served as the complementary tight and fill in for foster moreau as got all the way right. 

Carl Nassib for 9 mil-this is the worst signing in the gruden mayock era. Over paid as a third defensive and he only had 2.5 sacks and a random interception. Than again dee ford 6.5 sacks for 17.5 per year. Similar ratio lol

Cory Littleton for 13 mil per year- Had an abysmal season in a scheme fit. jury is still out on him. I guess we can compare him to Kwon Alexander. 

Nick kwik 7.5 mil per year-Solid linebacker signing, I had no problems with him other than he got injured a little too much for my taste. 

Marcus Mariota 10 mil-An overpaid backup but also easily the best back up in the nfl. I would done that over using 3 round pick or signing an OK back up for 6 million. Then there's the fact that we restructure the contract to 3 million so who cares.

We traded a third round pick for Antonio Brown who remember what's the best receiver in the NFL before he lost his mind. In an attempt to give Derek Carr more weapons I would've done that 1000 times

How about records?

Lets look at the niners 

2017-6-10

2018-4-12

Or even get into 2019 & 2020 if these were the Gruden Mayock errors first two records we would say they're idiots(like you do now). But this is the Shanahan lynch era 49ers so we're gonna ignore this because the ends justify the means apparently. I guess when you have a 13-3 record then all of a sudden Garappolo is some how better than Carr.

2019-13-3

2020-6-10

now the raiders 

2019-7-9

2020-8-8

That's it and we're losing our minds. Those to the records that were losing our minds over in the gruden/mayock era. Please go back and look at the Shanahan Lynch Era's first two years. And tell me they were that much better. 

How about defensive and offensive rankings 

2017: offense 12th; defense: 25th ppg

2018: offense 16th; defense: 28th ppg

2019: offense 4th; defense: 8th ppg

2020: offense 15th; defense: 1th ppg

Raiders? 

2019: offense 11th; defense: 24th ppg

2020: offense 8th; defense: 30th ppg

So tell me: does the Super Bowl run cover how bad they were every other year?

Nice opinion piece but clearly your opinion is flawed.  All we have to do is look back to your posts about David Irving, you breaking down hours of film and telling everyone on he he was going to be this impact 3T that we have been missing that was going to get 8 sacks for us this year based on juiced out film from over 5 years ago lol.  This "stud" that you spent so much time breaking down film on didn't even make it to TC.  He's so studly, do you know how many NFL GM's are lineing up to sign him?  How about zero....  Your analysis of him was flat out laughable and a complete waste of time just like I said.  You had pages of that nonsense similar to this but I must admire your conviction even though it's laughable. 

Answer me this question why are the Vegas SB odds +10000 for the Raiders (28th overall) and +1200 for the 49ers (5th overall) if, as you clam, Gruden and Mayock are doing a similar job of assembling a roster to what KS and Lynch are doing in SF? 

+1200 and 5th overall with Jimmy G who is a below average QB and a project, rookie QB backing him up, while we are +10000 with arguably a top 12 QB in the NFL.  Care to explain the massive discrepancy according to the Vegas odds makers?  

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

I stated earlier I do not think Kinlaw will be as good as Buckner but Kinlaw combined with $60+ million in cap space over the 4 years makes it a good trade for the 49ers.  Kinlaw needs to develop into an above average 3T and both sides win.  Same thing with our Mack trade.  Could have easily been a win/win trade but we screwed the picks and the cap.  Jacobs is a good player but he was over drafted in the 1st round.  People can say what they want about Mayock going after his guy but in the end they need to produce relative to their draft position or you are not good at your job.  If Ferrell is your guy but is the 12th best player in the draft you are wasting what amounts to a late 1st round pick.  The same way we take a player that should be making $3 million and we offer $5 to make sure they sign with us.  Its only $2 million but that builds up quickly.  Gruden does not care because he only focuses one year at a time and Mayock is to green and just follows Gruden.   This is why we are seeing so many reaches in the draft and bad contracts.

Actually the reason why the Mack trade was different is because it's because the Raiders were a trash football team that was rebuilding so whether Mac was there or not the team was still going to not be good for a few years. The 49ers where is Super Bowl contender and then traded their best player(and one of the best defensive players in the league) thinking they could just replace him. Instead they pay the guy that had only had one good season with a super line and then drafted a defensive tackle in the first round. In my opinion they should've followed the Rams blueprint where they keep Aaron Donald and whoever else they get they figure it out. 

[Jeremy408]

9 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Nice opinion piece but clearly your opinion is flawed.  All we have to do is look back to your posts about David Irving, you breaking down hours of film and telling everyone on he he was going to be this impact 3T that we have been missing that was going to get 8 sacks for us this year based on juiced out film from over 5 years ago lol.  This "stud" that you spent so much time breaking down film on didn't even make it to TC.  He's so studly, do you know how many NFL GM's are lineing up to sign him?  How about zero....  Your analysis of him was flat out laughable and a complete waste of time just like I said.  You had pages of that nonsense similar to this but I must admire your conviction even though it's laughable. 

Answer me this question why are the Vegas SB odds +10000 for the Raiders (28th overall) and +1200 for the 49ers (5th overall) if, as you clam, Gruden and Mayock are doing a similar job of assembling a roster to what KS and Lynch are doing in SF? 

+1200 and 5th overall with Jimmy G who is a below average QB and a project, rookie QB backing him up, while we are +10000 with arguably a top 12 QB in the NFL.  Care to explain the massive discrepancy according to the Vegas odds makers?  

Here's the problem with your premise:

1. I said that if David Irving came back in shape and had a full off-season he could have anywhere from 4-8 Sacks. Never said he was going to be a superstar. showed from the film why that was. After all of that it turned out the David Irving was cut because he came to OTAs out of shape. That has nothing to do with film or skill set or measurables or even juice lolol. Just because he got a cut does it mean that you can try to make up or alter what I actually said hahahaha.

2. How is that your response to the full side by side analysis of the Gruden/Mayock vs. Shannahan/Lynch that I posted? You cant just side step that by bringing up some interior lineman who got cut hahahahahaha. You have to have an equally articulate response so I can respect your point of view.

3. The funny thing about your point of you is that there are a lot of people that would actually use your point of you to say that Jimmy Garoppolo is a better quarterback than Derek Carr(which is actually something we both agree isn't true). 

4. Also why are the niners so much better than the eagles organization who actually won a sb and were a perennial playoff team before last season when they only had one winning season and didnt win the superbowl?

Edited August 1, 2021 by Jeremy408

[NCOUGHMAN]

I’ll say this tho we have lower standards than the niners for our players. 

[drfrey13]

5 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Actually the reason why the Mack trade was different is because it's because the Raiders were a trash football team that was rebuilding so whether Mac was there or not the team was still going to not be good for a few years. The 49ers where is Super Bowl contender and then traded their best player(and one of the best defensive players in the league) thinking they could just replace him. Instead they pay the guy that had only had one good season with a super line and then drafted a defensive tackle in the first round. In my opinion they should've followed the Rams blueprint where they keep Aaron Donald and whoever else they get they figure it out. 

I think you are a little off on our 2018 team.  We were a 12-4 team in 2016 and in 2017 with essentially the same team it all fell apart because JDR lost the locker room.  We had a trash transition because we brought in coaches that did not know how to play to players strengths so we needed to replace just about every player.   We had guys playing out of position and crap talent evaluation.  Guenther has already proven that he was probably the weakest link on defense and Cable took the best PBS line in the league and shredded it.  The team did not just suck in 2017.   The team quit on a coach after the 2017 WFT game and it was based upon protest.  On top of everything else Gruden brought in a system Carr has not shown a full grasp of after 3 years and has been bad in the red zone for 2 decades.  Was the defense good in 2016-17?  No but when they played aggressive they were opportunistic.  Mack trade could have worked in our favor if Gruden knew anything about talent evaluation using cap wisely but he does not.  So as it stands that 2017 WFT game has set us back 4 years now.

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

I think you are a little off on our 2018 team.  We were a 12-4 team in 2016 and in 2017 with essentially the same team it all fell apart because JDR lost the locker room.  We had a trash transition because we brought in coaches that did not know how to play to players strengths so we needed to replace just about every player.   We had guys playing out of position and crap talent evaluation.  Guenther has already proven that he was probably the weakest link on defense and Cable took the best PBS line in the league and shredded it.  The team did not just suck in 2017.   The team quit on a coach after the 2017 WFT game and it was based upon protest.  On top of everything else Gruden brought in a system Carr has not shown a full grasp of after 3 years and has been bad in the red zone for 2 decades.  Was the defense good in 2016-17?  No but when they played aggressive they were opportunistic.  Mack trade could have worked in our favor if Gruden knew anything about talent evaluation using cap wisely but he does not.  So as it stands that 2017 WFT game has set us back 4 years now.

That’s actually another mistake that people make is that the 2016 a team that we had was actually legit. I said it back in 2016 that it was a fluke. We had the easiest schedule in the NFL by far. The only teams we Play the year with a winning record I believe were the Texans and the Chiefs twice. That’s why we were able to get by with a sorry Defense. So what happened was in 2017 we went from having the easiest schedule to the hardest schedule(Not one game; a schedule). That’s what actually happened.
 

So then what happens is Gruden inherits a team that literally has one star Khalil Mack and a potential franchise quarterback in Derek Carr(who is mentioned numerous times he actually came back to coach). He comes and realizes that they were a bunch of players that were horrible for the locker room(Michael Crabtree for example) That he has to cut and then there’s also Mack who should have been paid long before Gruden was ever hired who because of that now wants to be paid like what was basically Quarterback money of his time. You can’t pay him that because then you can’t rebuild the team.

As far as the actual trade I would’ve done that trade over again 100 times given the circumstances.

As far as what actually sent us back was honestly the fact that all of the acquisitions(whether draft picks or free agent signings)that were made defensively were what Gunther called scheme fits for his so called scheme. Obviously because Gunther was trash all the acquisitions defensively didn’t work out. 
 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Jeremy408

[drfrey13]

3 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

That’s actually another mistake that people make is that the 2016 a team that we had was actually legit. I said it back in 2016 that it was a fluke. We had the easiest schedule in the NFL by far. The only teams we Play the year with a winning record I believe were the Texans and the Chiefs twice. That’s why we were able to get by with a sorry Defense. So what happened was in 2017 we went from having the easiest schedule to the hardest schedule(Not one game; a schedule). That’s what actually happened.
 

So then what happens is Gruden inherits a team that literally has one star Khalil Mack and a potential franchise quarterback in Derek Carr(who is mentioned numerous times he actually came back to coach). He comes and realizes that they were a bunch of players that were horrible for the locker room(Michael Crabtree for example) That he has to cut and then there’s also Mack who should have been paid long before Gruden was ever hired who because of that now wants to be paid like what was basically Quarterback money of his time. You can’t pay him that because then you can’t rebuild the team.

As far as the actual trade I would’ve done that trade over again 100 times given the circumstances.

As far as what actually sent us back was honestly the fact that all of the acquisitions(whether draft picks or free agent signings)that were made defensively were what Gunther called scheme fits for his so called scheme. Obviously because Gunther was trash all the acquisitions defensively didn’t work out. 
 

 

 

We can speculate all day but if you watch the first 2 games of 2017 that team came out swinging and looked like it would not skip a beat from the year before.  Also our SOS in 2016 was 14th (.504) toughest and 13th (.512) in 2017.  Turnover ratio is a much better argument because the SOS is pretty much the same when you take into account the extra 6 loses our opponents took because we won 6 more games.  

The reason why the locker room was the way it was stemmed from 2017 WFT game and I believe he got rid of a lot of players to protect Carr.  Gruden should have tried to communicate with Mack first to see what could be worked out.  Gruden compounded the problem by bringing in Guemther and then messing up the trade.  

The reason why the 2017 WFT game set us back is that this team is much better that year if it does not happen and we probably do not bring in Gruden.  JDR was not the best coach but we were setup to be a playoff team with ascending players.  Our biggest issue was RM's drafting and KNJs coaching.  We hopefully have a legit DC this year but we still have a drafting and personnel problem.

I only do the Mack trade if we have better talent evaluators and FO people that understand how to effectively use the cap.

Edited August 2, 2021 by drfrey13

[Jeremy408]

4 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

We can speculate all day but if you watch the first 2 games of 2017 that team came out swinging and looked like it would not skip a beat from the year before.  Also our SOS in 2016 was 14th (.504) toughest and 13th (.512) in 2017.  Turnover ratio is a much better argument because the SOS is pretty much the same when you take into account the extra 6 loses our opponents took because we won 6 more games.  

The reason why the locker room was the way it was stemmed from 2017 WFT game and I believe he got rid of a lot of players to protect Carr.  Gruden should have tried to communicate with Mack first to see what could be worked out.  Gruden compounded the problem by bringing in Guemther and then messing up the trade.  

The reason why the 2017 WFT game set us back is that this team is much better that year if it does not happen and we probably do not bring in Gruden.  JDR was not the best coach but we were setup to be a playoff team with ascending players.  Our biggest issue was RM's drafting and KNJs coaching.  We hopefully have a legit DC this year but we still have a drafting and personnel problem.

I only do the Mack trade if we have better talent evaluators and FO people that understand how to effectively use the cap.

 

Ok lets look at it(i'll put the teams that made it to the playoffs in bold and teams picking in the top 10 the following year in red)

2016 schedule

W-Saints 7-9(picked 11th in the 2017 draft and also had the same record as the bills)

L-Falcons 11-5

W-Titans 9-7

W-Ravens 8-8

W Chargers 5-11

L Chiefs 12-4 

W Jaguars 3-13

W Buccanneers 9-7

W Broncos 9-7

W Texans 9-7(infamous laser pointer game lol)

W Panthers 6-10

W Bills 7-9

L Chiefs 12-4 

W Chargers 5-11 

W colts 8-8

L Chargers 9-7

2017 schedule

W Titans 9-7

W jets 5-11

L WFT 7-9

L Broncos 5-11

L Ravens 9-7

L Chargers 9-7

W Chiefs 10-6

L Bills 9-7

W Dolphins 6-10

L Patriots 13-3

W Broncos 5-11 

W Giants 3-13

L Chiefs 10-6

L cowboys 9-7

L Eagles 13-3

L Chargers 9-7

 

Your thoughts? 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Jeremy408

[Darbsk]

14 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Actually the reason why the Mack trade was different is because it's because the Raiders were a trash football team that was rebuilding so whether Mac was there or not the team was still going to not be good for a few years. The 49ers where is Super Bowl contender and then traded their best player(and one of the best defensive players in the league) thinking they could just replace him. Instead they pay the guy that had only had one good season with a super line and then drafted a defensive tackle in the first round. In my opinion they should've followed the Rams blueprint where they keep Aaron Donald and whoever else they get they figure it out. 

I don't agree with this. I don't think we were rebuilding when Gruden initially came on board, I believe he saw a cornerstone on each side of the ball, a team one year removed from 12-4 and one he thought he could tinker with and find success. The Mack trade was initiated by a holdout situation that was badly handled and it all escalated from there IMO.

Totally agree with the second comment though regarding the 9ers 😀